Do advertisers really want to be associated with Guido's offensive and hateful comments?
It is wonderful that pressure from LabourList supporters has forced Paul Staines to take the racist comments off his website. He should be commended for doing that but he hasn't apologised for the offence he has caused and he has not committed never to do the same thing again. He also continues to host many other offensive and hateful comments. And make no mistake, if LabourList had not started this campaign yesterday the original comments would still be there - and would have been added to.
To those people who somehow think that this is a storm in a teacup or we should have better things to do, or its just a spat between our editor and Guido, read the moving, wise words of one of our commenters, Arjun Mittra:
"As someone who has frequently been the victim of racist abuse, I applaud the actions of those who have not when they seek to combat bigotry. People just think that there is no problem making innocent remarks, but the reality is that they contribute to the depressingly hostile atmosphere that ethnic minorities put up with in this country. But seeing as Paul Staines and the other Tories will, hopefully, never suffer serious racist abuse and discrimination, then of course they will not understand when they offend."
Another of our commenters, Neil Fraser, has put together the following list of advertisers on Paul Staines' racist website. Anyone who also feels that racism on the internet must be stamped out should also contact these companies. Ther are some e-mails below, as Neil says, do send in more. Let us know how you get on.
Ann Summers
Money Supermarket.com
Marks & Spencer.com
Uswitch
iwantoneofthose.com
HSBC
British Gas
Snap Fish
Skyscanner
Lastminute .com
Gumtree
Flicker
Dell
Intel
British airways Holidays
Gieves & Hawkes
Actionaid
Thorntons
Thomas cook
Dear Sir or Madam:
The above is a list of companies which advertise on the Order-Order.com website, a blog by Mr Paul Staines, alias Guido Fawkes. As you will have noticed, your company appears on this list.
You need to examine his website from Friday February 13th, encouraging his readers to generate comments in a "caption competition". As you will note, the photograph shows a number of young children together with the Prime Minister. Mr Staines then published a series of responses, many of which were racist &/or sexual in nature.
Whilst Mr Staines denies racism, he allowed the comments to stand and published them on his site, only taking some of the worst (but by no means all the offensive comments) down after considerable outcry on-line.
I believe that Mr Staines choice of picture as "humorous" and suitable for a competition, and most especially his inaction suggests tacit support for some of the views that were expressed, albeit as "jokes". As a father of young children, I was disturbed by the choice of image and the comments that were posted on the site without any apparent moderation.
I am aware that my opinions on this matter are not unusual. I have discussed this site in internet fora and on social networking sites such as Twitter.com, and have found a lot of people are outraged by the material appearing on the order-order.com site. I am sure that I am not the only person who will withdraw my support and refuse to purchase from companies who support this site with advertising revenue. I am, in fact, suggesting this approach to others who were disgusted by the views expressed on Mr Staines site.
I am sure that your company does not want to be associated with the material that was posted on Guido Fawkes blog today, and I would strongly urge you to withdraw your advertising from order-order.com.
I for one will not be using any of your products until you take a stand.
Yours,
Neil Fraser.
I've emailed this out to the following addresses:
allan.gilliland@moneysupermarket.com
Anthony.Chmarny@service.britgas.co.uk
customer.relations@thomascook.com
If anyone wants to do the same that would be great, also if anyone can prove more contact details for these companies that too would be great.
In addition everyone should be aware that the company that handles Staines' advertising is called Messagespace and also provides adverts for other blogs and sites. Staines put up the money for this venture and seems to be in control of it. It is probably a good idea for all progressive and mainstream bloggers and websites to stay away from this company given the nature of the offensive website that is run by Staines. LabourHome guru Jag Singh is also involved but that is a matter for him. Tom Watson MP has already called publicly for Jag to find other backers for his venture and that would seem more urgent now than ever. It is interesting to note that ConservativeHome has wisely stayed away from the current messagespace setup.
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"You really need to look deep into your own heart and ask yourself, why am I supporting this shower? Is this what I really believe in? "
thankyou for your words of wisdom. Politics is a tribal business but outside that what matters is the needs of the society.
care to illuminat me what is the BIG IDEA society is looking for from politics.
a non issue this, so long as everyone else is also in it.
look at climate change, we are all in it. It gets fixed. so as the saying goes chillbabychill.
yu are a disgrace Sir.
yu lie in the same bed as a prominent anarchist who expresses his disgraceful racist and homophobic tendencies thru others. yu need to be more careful in yr business dealings. Society for sure will "punish" yu/
Now let's say someone reads this and is so determined to win he/she adapts.
the dust is as yet a million miles from settling. with best wishes.
is reckless hurt caused to others amusing? if not then what?
interesting that. thought the issue was enlightenment. and that surely can come at anytime.
i wish yu luck.
I've got books on management and relationships that point out how mediocre and sad behaviour like that is. That's not debate, it's a squabble. It's a dead giveaway for the ignorant and amateur. Like virgin schoolboys blushing at the whisp of a girls skirt they crumble at the merest hint of difficulty.
In the Jet Lee movie, Fist of Legend, Chen Zhen says that the purpose of kung fu is to defeat your enemy. Fumio says, "No, you are wrong, son. The best way to defeat your enemy is to use a gun. Kung fu is about personal development." You can't win an argument on the internet. Sadly, some people never learn.
I don't like racism, sexism or most other kinds of ism's but can you not see that you're actually advocating the stamping out of free speech? How very Nu Labour of you. The fact that I do not hold racist views does not mean I can impose my standard on anyone else. There will be/are people that do hold these views and whilst I don't agree with their views I absolutely stand by their right to hold and express those views.
Labour has gone out of its way in the last 11 years to trample on freedom and rights and in a very 'nanny knows best' way has made society poorer for it.
I’ve been visiting this site for a few days now and have really enjoyed reading both the articles and the responses. But this is the first time I have felt like commenting myself.
You do know your letter looks like envy. This site has been going a short time and already it looks like the traffic is great. Each article is getting hundreds of comments so they must be doing something right. Today I took my first visit to your site since early last year and judging by most of your posts receiving no comments it looks like I’m not the only one who doesn’t visit.
I’d like to go thru some of the comments you made.
“Those of us who have been involved in online electioneering for far longer than you, can clearly see that you're taking us all down in to the gutter.”
Those of us who were in America and are aware of your involvement in the John Kerry campaign know what a shockingly poor record you have when it comes to campaigning. How you were able to lose to one of the most unpopular incumbents is beyond belief. Your “don’t rock the boat” policy failed there, and it’s failing here to. Thank god there’s finally Labour site willing to shack things up a bit.
“I'm comfortable with MessageSpace's dealings with Guido - and here's why:”-they pay me.
The fact that you would rather take money from an advertiser than acknowledge the contributions of the ordinary members of your chosen party just goes to show that your true loyalties are to your own pocket and not to the principles you profess.
“Last week I mailed a cheque for £500 to Tom Harris' Glasgow South Constituency Labour Party for the revenue accumulated from MessageSpace”
I’ve been paying my Labour and Union membership for decades, how long have messagespace been contributing?
“the boycott mentality advanced here is not likely to help”
The Labour Party and its members have been successfully using the boycott method since it’s inception. When the Tories refuse to condemn Apartheid we used economic boycott as a very effective protest.
“I grew up in the deep South in a post-9/11 America, wearing a turban.”
This does not give you the right to turn a blind eye to racism because you fear losing revenue. And to say that Indians can’t be racist is it’s own special kind of bigotry.
“I know Paul Staines. I also know his father.”
A statement like that just reinforces the impression that politics is just some sort of “Old Boy Network” game.
“Give me a call - we should be working together”
I would suggest you give me a call, but as I am just a lowly party member who only contributes a few Pounds a month, and who’s father doesn’t know anyone of importance, we both know that would be a waste of time.
Here's what I sent them:
Dear Sir/Madam,
You may well have received an email from Neil Fraser – and possibly others – claiming that they will be boycotting your products and services if you continue to advertise on Guido Fawkes’ www.order-order.com website.
Their complaint seems to be that the Guido Fawkes website is somehow racist or extreme.
This is an absurd and ridiculous accusation.
Guido’s website is one of the most read and commented on in British politics, with a huge range of readers representing a wide diversity of backgrounds and political beliefs.
I am aware of the content of Mr Fraser’s letter as he has posted it on a Labour Party forum. What he doesn’t make clear is that his letter – and his publication of your email address - is part of a concerted campaign by Labour activists. Mr Fraser has not written to you as an ordinary member of the public - or necessarily even as a purchaser of your products - but as part of a Labour Party campaign to attempt to discredit the Guido Fawkes website.
I was disappointed that Mr Fraser did not make this plain in his letter, which he posted here http://www.labourlist.org/together_we_forced_guido_to_take_down_the_racist_comments_on_his
I thought it was very important that you be made aware that any emails you receive along the same lines are very likely to have been politically-motivated rather than coming from genuine customers who have any form of real concern about you advertising on the Guido Fawkes site.
As a regular reader of www.order-order.com, I can assure that you that I am far MORE likely to purchase products and services from you if you continue to draw these products and services to my attention on this website.
Although I cannot possibly pretend to speak for them, I would imagine the same is true of tens of thousands of other avid readers of the site.
Yours sincerely,
Do open your eyes.
I don't think I've ever come across a political blog/website that is so completely out of touch with the people who post comments on it.
What a fiasco.
Makes for very funny reading though...
Labour List (and especially Mr Draper, who I genuinely thought had changed) has unfortunately turned out to be really quite disappointing. It reminds me of all the huffing and puffing, preening and posing and political naivety of my old uni's Student Union newspaper (which went largely unread, except by those who wrote for it).
This is the 21st century internet. Bandwidth is precious.
Get with it, get witty, get going ... or get off.
rather hard to accept that your indignation does not have ulterior motives. Yes, you are rightly outraged by comments on
GF's site but you are also clearly engraged by his mission to scupper you last week. So enraged are you that you would
prefer not to link to his website and give him webspace. Accusations of racism provide you with a neat smokescreen to do so.
I think you need to relax a bit, focus on the task in hand and, to a large degree, ignore the rightwing blogosphere.
Your mission should surely be to establish a strong left wing voice and start developing the networks Guido and Dale enjoy
as more established bloggers. To take them on you need an army of followers. The attack on their advertisers is bogus. It
might reduce their income but it won't reduce their readership. This is their true powerbase.
Defend yourself by all means - on your personal blog - but don't fill this site with guff about your own vendettas.
I rather think this is a war you can't win.
The fact is you were found out in a big way and it smarted but do get over it and give us lefties a site we can engage with.
You have carefully rebuilt your credibility after your earlier indiscretions. Don't throw it all away on a silly spat.
I started looking at Labourlist in the hope that I would see the sort thing which appears on Conservativehome. Light hearted, up to the minute comments and news about politics and current events. What do we get one blog a day and for two days running a row about another blog.
Guido is an amusing anarchist who often gets a good political expose. Much of the comments posted on his site are puerile and yes often racialist, obscene and tedious. For that reason I rarely read them, life is too just short.
The internet is a wonderful invention but like all inventions can be used for good or ill. 99.9% won't appeal to more than a small number of people but that is its' value. Just as the multiplicity of TV channels and the reduction in the cost of publishing has enabled a much greater variety of programmes and books so the amount of rubbish increases, so bit it, most intelligent people look for the gold and ignore the dross.
Instead of setting yourself up as a moral policeman, get on with creating an amusing, interesting and informative website which whilst promoting the Labour viewpoint has enough courage not to be just a tool of the Labour Leadership regurgitating press releases from Higher Command.
No doubt you think it is clever to build up a fake controversy to drive hits to your site, which is turning out to be a sorry failure. But it just isn't a way to win an election or help Labour - the dominant interest in the site will increasingly be from people interested in witnessing your self-immolation - you are contaminating your stats with people who just think you are an idiot and Labourlist an example of how Labour has lost its way.
Amongst all the puerile nonsense you are producing, the thoughts of senior Labour figures are buried and obscured. To be honest they read like dull speeches or leaden op-eds rather than 'real' blogging, but you are obscuring even that. Let Labourlist fail for the right reasons, please - which are that the labour project is now intellectually (and actually) bankrupt, and that the current PM is no match for Tony Blair.
I've been a life-long Labour supporter - but no more. This site is just more evidence that the party is sick to its very core.
I intended to stay out of this fight between you and Guido/Paul, but you've personally involved me and it's time I speak frankly. Those of us who have been involved in online electioneering for far longer than you, can clearly see that you're taking us all down in to the gutter. We last spoke a few days ago (about Labourlist taking MessageSpace ads - an idea YOU brought up months ago, btw) and we were still talking about the possibility of Labourlist joining the MessageSpace network. Now you are attacking me.
I'm comfortable with MessageSpace's dealings with Guido - and here's why:
Last week I mailed a cheque for £500 to Tom Harris' Glasgow South Constituency Labour Party for the revenue accumulated from MessageSpace ads on his website. MessageSpace has never done so with an MP from another party.
Last summer, during the Mayoral elections, MessageSpace helped Ken Livingstone's campaign (not Boris' team!), and we were able to work for bargain rates for the Labour Party. We were able to do it because the commercial side of our business makes us able to do things for free, like run charity ads for Action Aid and even the DEC.
MessageSpace has run successful campaigns for War on Want, and handled ad campaigns for unions (Unite, Amicus, CWU, TUC, NUT) and charities (Save the Children, Help the Aged, Royal British Legion, Stroke Association, Friends of the Earth, Oxfam, Media Standards Trust, Age Concern, Plane Stupid) alike. And yes, we've also done a little bit of work for Policy Exchange, the LibDems and the Conservative Party. These adverts appear on some forty blogs, of which Guido is just one.
As Chris Paul puts it, "MessageSpace is a help with the sustainability of blogs across the political spectrum and the boycott mentality advanced here is not likely to help the rest of MessageSpace's outlets." We've been able to direct more advertising money (and by extension, support) to sites like Labourhome, Labour Outlook, Kerron Cross, Bloggers4Labour, Tribune Online, Harry's Place than Google or any other ad network for the sole reason that we're able to aggregate our influential audience and deliver them directly to advertisers. Over the last few years we have paid tens of thousands of pounds to bloggers.
We have channelled and provided more financial support for more Labour blogs than anyone else. Your cack-handed attempt to get back at Guido/Paul is going to undermine all that. You are also going to get the back up of most of the rest of the blogosphere - big successful, influential sites like PoliticalBetting.com. Do you understand or even realise we sell ads on behalf of all these sites? It is all very well for ConservativeHome and PoliticsHome who have substantial funding from Tory backer, they don't need us, most Labour blogs don't have any backers. Are you trying to undermine everyone else in your blind rage with Guido?
Before you start on about racism let me tell you something - I grew up in the deep South in a post-9/11 America, wearing a turban. In my time I have known racists and I know Paul Staines. I also know his father, and have joked with him in Hindi. It's probably better than mine, perhaps because he comes from Uttar Pradesh, in India. I've also played with Paul's youngest daughter, Priya. Trust me, I'm pretty sure Paul isn't racist.
If you really want to pick a fight with other bloggers - have at it. You are however in my view damaging the whole blogosphere with this fit of pique. So far you've just got everybody's backs up and done the party absolutely no favours. This pointless, stupid and ill thought out attack on a funding stream for many Labour supporting blogs is worse than counter-productive.
Give me a call - we should be working together to further the Party's efforts on the Web.
JS
When some of us complain about this you call it 'pettiness'???
I also am thinking about what society needs. This blog ain't it!
Until you do, you are banned from my Blogroll.
Still I cant see any apology yet from him. Dolly I suggest a donation to an appropriate charity is in order.
....hmmmmm that is what the Germans said in 1933
Can we get back to important issues which concern us all?
Starting a campaign about a few bad-taste comments on a blog which publicly states that there is little or no moderation is exactly the kind of thing which gives anti-racism a bad name.
Ministers are on the ropes(again) over expenses and the public know
Legislation is for sale to the highest bidder but that's ok because'its within the rules'
The Chancellor before last deregulated so much that there was chaos. We are now paying the price of the worst recession in the G8 and our children will repay the cost for 30 years
Minister feel free to openly lie to the public. They just don't even bother to conceal it any more (oh look at our new trains - British trains for British people but made in Japan)
Oh yes, and where are all the Ministers in this hour of need> Don't seem to see them about much on TV. Alan Johnston seems to be about a bit. Balls crops up when cornered. But where is Harriet? We still see more of Prezza and, even worse, that often seems a good thing!
You really need to look deep into your own heart and ask yourself, why am I supporting this shower? Is this what I really believe in?
Three days from 'launch' and its dead in the water, holed and sinking after hitting the Guido Fawkes iceberg.
yu for sure are mate.
Think addressing the issue that yu raise is the remit of Trevor Philips at the Equality and Human Rights Commission. Good luck. and let us know how yu get on.
Many thanks.
We keep hearing about errors of judgement, but in sober truth is a multimillionaire who ahs spent hsi life investment banking REALLY going to be a Labour supporter?. If I were a betting man, I would suggest that the Tories saw this report before the commissioning Blair did, but obviously nothing could be proved.
I would like to know Purnell's reaction to Freud, for example (mind you, Nulabour should have seen that one coming!) and what he will now do about Mr Freud's Tory policy. But of course this week is "half term" so I suppose they have gone back to their second homes for a bit of quality time with their bank balances....
To have been prodded into losing your cool, and then handed a chunk of meat too juicy to miss, only realising too late you were biting into rancid mutton.....
A whole day has gone by with nothing new posted. The site remains dominated by Derek Draper’s ongoing fight with Guido Fawkes. Today it’s dressed up as a noble war on racism but the truth is plain: it’s just a fight between two outsized egos.
If you were truly fighting racism you’d have my full support. We could have all got our teeth stuck into a thread on the Runnymede Trust’s accusations that the police remain institutionally racist -- a subject obviously has wider impact.
I am surprised that anybody has defended this fight against Guido but, to those who have, please ask yourself what it has achieved. Is Guido weakened? Are you any more enlightened about Labour policy? Have any of your beliefs been challenged? Have any of your elected politicians been held to account? Have you persuaded anybody to adopt a new position? Have you put forward any ideas that your party might use?
I’ll lurk for a few days more but, unless something radically changes, I’m off, disappointed.
What seems pretty clear to me is that Britain is getting primed for a revolution.
Bloody it may be. Necessary it most certainly is. From the people it will come. The entire existing political class in this country needs to be swept into the sea. And with them shall go the monarchy, the porcine bankers, the surveillance state and the corporate kleptocracy.
What will be the aims of this revolution? A rooting out of greed & corruption? Yes.
Will the people be calling for us to get back to '"the way things were"?
No.
Because every day more people in Britain are waking up to the fact that we can never and will never be going back to the "the way things were" or " the good old days" pre-2008. They were not good old days. They were days of delusion. And they are over. Gone. Forever. The sooner everyone realises this - including the political class - the better. [Un]fortunately they won't and revolution will be the end result.
The next few years of sharp decline will mean not only riots on the street but a riot of ideas. Those ideas will come from a new generation of people ready to embrace a greener, freer, less materially prosperous but infinitely richer way of life. The British Voltaires, Rousseaus & Paines are still unknown to us. But they will come. And we will endure on our magnificent little island. A people free at last from the tyranny we have endured since May 4th 1979.
Aux barricades on 4th May 2009. !!!!
the "wl "phrase. I agree with yr sentiment . I have not read who said it and why so cannot comment further.
I agree that if someone is knowingly hurtful then that is an issue. However, we all have additional freedoms when we are defending the interests of society. That interest in itself has many many components and is prioritised. Yu or I may disagree with it....but i think that is better to like the world we live in than not,
The eradication of racism in a public space is high priority for society as social cohesion is high priority. is there anything more important at present?
Take a look at the comments after any article in the Guardian by Toynbee, Kettle or Ashby when they come out with the usual apologia for this mendacious shower. There you will find many calls for civil disobedience and a sense of utter frustration.
Meanwhile here on Labourlist we have self important posturing and windmill tilting.
Nice tag team rebuttal though, shame it's all a bit late...
"P" can be a beauty for some i suppose. everyone to their own - in the privacy of their own private space .
when a grownup does a "p" in public ,and no one says anything then society will increasingly have a problem.
Time for respecting those in authority is indeed coming.
The Labour leaders need to visit this and the previous post to see what their online campaigning is degenerating into.
are naff.
there is still a lot to play for. A lot more events are yet to unfold. Society will have to make uncomfortable choices well well before the election day.
Don't blame yu for saying what yu do though. I recommend tht you ReeeeeeeeeeeLAX.
if yu wish to feel empowered then Mr Hardwidge has a very powerful suggestion for you.
"they have some terrible issues of a personal nature too.
quite. ah how nice it is to percieve to have some power, even it so not there.
oh dear. and who made yu god,
It is easy to percieve in an excitable manner - in times such as this.
so wise:
"start small and be prepared to wait."
this does not stop us fromthinking BIG.
for others. for us. for the universe.
send love out folks.
just realised how this post may be misinterpretd if it were on the Stains mouthpiece.
oh dear.
PLEASE BE PATIENT. THe DUST HAS NOT YET SETLLED. on how bad things will get. It is outside the control of any one country.
The outcome I am certain though will be a massive regeneration and rebirth of society
He is only interested in HIS welfare.
The time now is think beyond personal glory.
Cast your eyes a little to the right and you'll see this site links to B3TA. Plenty of stuff on there that offends those sensitive to BME discrimination. I'll start emailing the advertisers on this site until you remove the link.
They will now be able to boast that labour is instituting their policies, because after all, iot is not hard to believe that freud always WAS a Tory. Mr Purnell's wholesale support of him either shows gross error of judgement or Tory sympathies.
I guessing you’re the kind of person who fears anything he doesn’t understand. Therefore me trying to explain to you how descent people when confronted by the racist abuse of 4 year old children are not only disgusted but are compelled to do something, no matter how small, would be a waste of time.
In fact we could take it further, why aren’t all blogging sites on the same topic?
LabourList & Go Fourth are two different sites doing two different things on the left, let’s keep it that way.
So anyway, seeing as this has nothing to do with your spat with guido, wouldn't your collective energies be better aimed at taking down stormfront.org?
Do you know what a sense of humour is? It looks to me that you do not. Do yourself a favour and do your best to get one, but it will be something you have to acquire for yourself. You can't be given one by a crony, nor fake one as easily as a 'qualification'. No offence, JD.
I want adult debate instead, I want ideas and vision. There is so much to talk about. For example, we need to discuss whether GORDON BROWN IS CAPABLE OF LEADING THE LABOUR PARTY and Britain. Why not a piece on this?
If you go over to Iain Dale or Conservative Home you'll see I post regularly, and I have blog. Oh I forgot, the Dollymeister forbids you to converse with ze enemy!
Many thanks for the email addresses of the companies advertising on Guido.
Along with some mates we have sent emails to these companies advising how much we enjoy Guido's blog, and explaining that this silly malarke is a result of Derek being so upset that Guido blog is so successful and his isn't.
Integrity is a must for any Home Secretary and £ 116,000 is a significant amount of taxpayers money,it may be more as some of the records are incomplete.
In accordance with the 1998 Data Protection Act, LabourList will not pass on your name or any of your submitted contact details, including your Email address, to any third party; commercial, political, or governmental."
But it's all right to post the email addresses of those you intend to spam for self-motivated lobbying purposes who have nothing to do with your website?
I will be complaining to the appropriate professional bodies on Monday. Who on earth do you think you are? I'm appalled.
I hold in disdain the vast majority of those who abuse and/or hijack a genuine cause for the purpose of political or personal gain. And Mr Draper is certainly high up on my list on that score at present. This current spat is not truly a debate regarding social inequity or promoting a party political/ideological message etc but rather a silly, bullying, almost fascistic, personal vendetta. His talents (such as they are) and connections would be better directed towards adjusting policy than "going off on one". OTOH, I never had a lot of time for this particular guy and his style of spin, so maybe it was to be expected.
I had looked forward to this blog's arrival as an entity in itself but I am afraid that I am going to walk away from it. It is too Draper-centric, too blinkered, too much waste of space. And at least on my various PC displays the text breaks up due to poor font selection/browser compatibility. You may want to consider whether the design meets current accessibilty standards also. Ho hum.
Perhaps that will make him think twice before smearing others for perceived offence.
Since when have you become a moderator for Mr Draper?
Labour are making a big push. They're making mistakes and a few vested interests who think they "own this space" will squeal but they'll raise their game and the whiners will adjust. If they continue improving they'll set the pace and the rest will start chasing the ball.
I'm unapologetic in dismissing Britian as a nation of bullshitters and whiners. Sure, that pushes a few peoples noses out of joint, sometimes unfairly, but if Britain is to step up a gear and be a forward leaning country with something to offer and be a place people want to live you have to make it happen.
I am certainly glad that I did not let him know that my skin is not white...a Carol thatcher type remark at this time in my life would have just tipped the balance of my mind.
Can you recommend a form of therapy? I am not sure that those that advertise therapeutic counselling on the Internet are genuine!
Tom has the same advertisers as Guido, should I write to them.
As an MP should Tom Harris not disclose his advertisement income to the Parliamentary register of members interests?
I'm a big fan of gold standards and teamwork, and holding big companies "brand values" and corrosive shits like Paul Staines to account is exactly right. These are the questions of excellence that Britian needs to ask of itself.
Change isn't just a matter of people buying the big ticket items or drawing crowds. It's a matter of developing incremental change. You have to start small and be prepared to wait. Derek "took the deal". He banked what was achievable. Give the guy credit.
As the teacher said: "Tomorrow is another day."
"In new media command and control doesn't work: we need to embrace and engage"
.... does that include using abusive terms about disabled people?
"In government what matters above all else is not what you say but what you do. "
..... and we have seen what you have done and said on here
"I am glad that ....... Labour party itself is now moving to the forefront of new media and online campaigning. "
Is this nonsense what he was really thinking of?
"I saw the Labour party repeatedly let down its voters by failing to win the battle with the Tories and the media. Back then we were in hand-to-hand combat with an almost universally hostile press but sometimes we were our own worst enemy."
....... 'nuff said
"so we will still need loyalty and discipline"
..... seems in short supply now
"But when it comes to new media we have to recognise that the days of command and control are over. Instead we need to learn to embrace and engage. "
........ heaven help his wit if this is what he was promoting
Do you think it is only elected representatives that have a stake or a say in our society?
Downs people often have large toungues that tend to loll out and often out of boredom do infact "lick the windows." My son
who is 13 is Downs Syndrom, hence I can talk with some authority. Unlike Labour's hypocritical thought cimes bureau my son
and me are not offended and you are welcome to continue using the phrase. Guido's caption competition was un-PC and hit and
miss. Mostly outstandingly funny.
Stand for election. Or shut up.
Post on Guido's blog. Go on, give us a laugh.
Incidentally, where are all these outraged people you speak of? - there don't seem to be more than one or two in the comments.
Guido took down precisely 3 of the comments you listed, which by the way you still have posted!
The others are still there, and rightly so, because either (a) they are not racist, or (b) any racial element is directed at Brown's stupidity or his "British Jobs for British Workers" dog whistle.
"Now which of you is President Obama"; do please tell me what's racist about telling black children that they can aspire to being leader of my country!!
Don't worry, my favorite wasn't racist at all: ""That looks like a Fortune Cookie little boy...does it contain Derek Drapers MA Certificate from Burkeley sorry Berkley?"
See, Guido's followers have a sense of humor after all.
Do you?
This is a valuable campaign that demonstrates Labour values in operation in the real world. Racism of all guises must be outed and we must not rest until we are rid of it.
But I think we must do more. We must take our lead from Georges Jacques Danton: "Boldness, more boldness, and perpetual boldness!"
What about the shareholders of the companies you list? Do they not have a right to know where the companies that they own choose to place their adverts? We must put pressure on them.
And where these shareholders are pension funds - then we must expose them and insist that people investing their hard-earned contributions know if that fund supports companies that advertise on blog sites where racist comments are left from members of the public.
And if the pension funds will not do this - we must lobby Government to force them to disclose this information.
And if the Government will not do this - then we MUST lobby the Labour Party to DEMAND a leadership election IMMEDIATELY to put a leader in place who has the political courage to do so.
And if the Labour Party will not do so - then we need to start an online campaign on blogging websites affiliated to them, to get the Labour Party to change leader, to force pension funds to disclose their investments in companies that place adverts on blogging sites where members of the public leave racist comments. To do otherwise, to "do nothing", is the height of irresponsibility at this time when we need to be pulling together as a country.
I am sure you agree and I look forward to being granted permission to write a separate post about this crucial issue.
OK, so there are some issues of substance further down, but how is LabourList going to start the conversations needed to get this country out of the doldrums?
How are you going to help people who've just lost their jobs? What is Labour doing to forge a lasting peace in the Middle East? Where's the thinking on energy security? On delivering a world to our kids which isn't under water?
The latest polls are showing that Labour has the strong possibility of becoming the third party behind the Lib Dems (25% to 22%(!) in the latest poll). Can you imagine the embarrassment of that? If that were to become reality (and I don't see any reason why the current trends won't continue), it would probably mean the near death of the Labour party for a long amount of time!
If it were to happen, and the only way of stopping the conservatives get in was voting Lib Dem, I know what I would do.
Despite this, despite how the Labour Party is in such a terrible position, despite us facing a near crisis, you're still moaning about some person who runs a right wing blog, someone who writes things I couldn't care less about.
Also, valiant or not, you're are putting people off this blog. This site should be about Labour, and Labour policies.
Hopefully mentioning "third party" will take people's heads out of the clouds. I know its certainly shaken me.
To be fair it was a beautiful piss take.
But why oh why did the people running this site not bother to check before they started to hail this great victory. It just makes you look like total idiots...which is what I am sure Guido wanted.
Any thoughts about that?
Is it a suicide pact?
i too found some of the comments a bit over the top, i also believe that they were written to try to be ammusing and while some people did not see them as such does not mean that the person writing them is a racist, maybe they were ill thought out or written on the spur of the moment.
Might i also point out that some of the posters on here are up in arms about racism, they have used the term "window licker" which is urban slang for a mentally retarded person, i find that hypocritical and distasteful
Sorry to interrupt your back slapping, but what exactly have you achieved?
You assisted in the moderation of the site of a known right of centre rabble rouser.
Is that what Labourlist is for?
Is that what Labour are for?
I'm sure Peter is proud...
Anyway, all the best
Gareth
Now that you have defeated Iain Dale and Guido - maybe you would turn the power of LabourList on to Combat 18:
http://www.combat18.org/
I'm not sure, however, that you will be able to conquer this group by blogging alone.
You didn't actually check did you?
Yu are a man with a view. and would like to provide a counter view. Yu ofcourse assume that we all have the same definition of hardcore. and that yu are in sync with society on this.
and yes, yu may tell us all that Staines is partially part of the Indian genepool and that crafty "court jestor" - Boris - has a Turkish background.
Thanks in advance for your reply.
Mr Draper is in sync with society. yu may very well be too - but in your case yu are in sync with gutter society. cheers!
quite apt that.
stand up for yourself. Many Thanks.
interesting this. as this implies that it is Jag's venture.
is he the majority shareholder?
I will see what I can do. I contacted M&S a while back re their decision criteria for advertising on PaulStaines mouthpiece. I am happy to forward their reply,
but probably our of sheer courtesy I will get them in the loop first. cheers.
And this 'lets email the advertisers thing' is starting to look like a nasty creepy snitch campaign.
I've got a spare 5 minutes on my hands and I fancy targeting my sense of outrage elsewhere. Are there any other massive injustices in the world going on at the moment? Illegal wars, corruption, namecalling anything will do?
Actually having said that my offensometer went into overdrive before when I read an extremely disgusting remark about the disabled. Does this site have any advertising? I want to fire off an email to the funders on this site so they know what sort of filth their money is going on. Anyone got any idea where I should send it to? It's not clear who or what funds this place.
But hey, there's a few less naughty words on the internet!
To be fair 2: This particular photograph, as others before it, was self evidentally going to produce such comments. Guido is therefore guilty as charged. But (a) he doesn't care and (b) these advertisers use the Mail and the Sun and the Sport and they're mostly interested in the click through or page impressions they get.
I'm still feeling that this is tilting at windmills and informed by personal hurt feelings and is not being carried out in the furtherance of LabourList's stated aims. These are not to engage with right wing window lickers but to rebut actual Tory and Lib Dem and BNP crap, particularly the sort that reaches the MSM.
Guido is only too painfully aware what an exceedingly tiny organ he plays with daily. Bigger statistically than many other blogs, but a tiddler compared to the big wide world. 0.005% of the population or thereabouts ... and mostly right-wing window lickers.
And, insofar as it's worth appealing to reason when someone's off on one, is it not the case that Derek's major objection to being caught out impression managing his CV - albeit in a minor way - is that this constitutes part of his living. That's true of GuF and his blog. It is also true of the other MessageSpace bloggers who might suffer if advertisers start getting leery. Of which group I am not one. Sob.
If anyone sent me a message admitting to being part of that otiose community, I would just ignore it.
I daresay "LabourList" think it's terribly up-to-date, but I daresay Twittering will go the same way as the hula hoop, the Rubik cube, CB radio etc and not a day too soon.
Voltaire, Essay on Tolerance
French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778)
Also i am glad to see Labourlist finding its feet, i must say i hope you guys are not disheartened by the bile and hate that is being aimed in your direction by the likes of dale and stains, you are providing a great site for important work, dont let them stop you.
I am not on the electoral roll as all the poltical parties will eventually mess it up and my work colleague is from Iraq so don't label me.