From @LabourList
UPDATE: The video has now been removed from YouTube due to a complaint from ConservativeFuture. They claim a copyright infringement, but Don't Panic Media - who made the film - still have it up on the right of their website here. It's a must see!
This is a really well put together, independent must-see video in which a reporter from Don't Panic Media spends a day with Conservative Future members. Balanced and fair, it shows - especially towards the end - how little Conservative views have changed, in spite of Phillip Blond's Red Toryism and Cameron's so-called "compassionate Conservatives" and in spite of a set of trendy young cheerleaders.
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I don’t understand why this gets posted up. Is it reflective of anything? Alex are you short of material again?
As for the laughter from the left... well, Labour's so-called masters and elders were mostly all members of the Communist party in their youth; there have been many Cabinet ministers who were at some point members of the Communist Party. Jack Straw, Peter Mandelson for example.
At a time when the Communists were killing thousands to suppress democracy in Eastern Europe as well.
These guys are totally harmless in comparison.
And what do bears do in woods?
The beauty of the internet is that nothing vanishes forever; you can still view it here
Watch it, and you'll see some plummy bint tell us that "the sun is cooling" and that "global warming is a myth"!
Bright new modern forward-thinking Conservative party? Pull the other one!
And you gotta wonder how a bunch of students and young people can afford to hold a knees-up at The Old Bank of England; been there once, cost me £7.85 for a round - of two, yes TWO pints!!
"plummy bint"?
What if someone calls you an ill educated, badly spoken oick from the working classes? Is that ok?
Or perhaps with your name the BNP could adopt the usual line and accuse you of being a benefit cheating islamic terrorist? Is that ok with you?
Is dropping to those levels and the one of using "plummy bint" the approach of the "bright new modern forward-thinking" Labour party?
As for the old Bank of England pub. I worked on Chancery Lane for some time and the Bank, along with the Knight Templar, was a regular lunchtime and after work venue. Funnily enough it always seemed to be packed with people drinking those near £4 pints.
Perhaps I could drop to your stereotypical level and suggest you go get a job? Then you could afford a drink or two?
By the way I've never been to a "knees-up", is it some sort of coal miners ritual or maybe an initiation right for the local union? See what I did there, did you like it as much as the young lady would like being referred to as a "plummy bint"?
I have a job, hence why I'm not on here 24/7 posting illiterate nonsense and parrotting the languange of the BNP.
You need to get out more.
Argue that it was poorly made and showed the young people in a negative way, but don't stoop to calling people 'plummy', its poor form and you're intelligent enough to get your point across without resorting to class insults.
As for "parrotting the languange of the BNP", I suggest you read the post again before you comment.
I clearly said "Is dropping to those levels and the one of using "plummy bint" the approach of the "bright new modern forward-thinking" Labour party?". In other words you got hit with the same treatment.
There's nothing like a socialist whining when they get treated with the same methods.
Best get back to your job Shamik, I guess there might be a few "plummy bints" waiting for you to serve their burgers. Oops did you see what I did there?
How about starting by defending this writer and her article?!
There's nothing like right-wing Tory boy hypocrisy!
On the main point, maybe "thick Tory", "dopey muppet" or "ignorant ****" would've been better than "plummy bint"...
Ms Penny is sexist (anti male) and racist (anti white).
I'd no more defend her than I would Nick Griffin.
By the way I'd rather spend time in the company of the "plummy bint" than some working class oick with a racial chip on his shoulder who wants to steal my money.
What's your next comment gonna be? I bet you're dying to say you prefer Nick Griffin to me!
I can jsut see you straining at the leash, swivel-eyed with a bulging forehead, primed to unleash a tirade against women, "ethnics" and all those blaaady socialists stealing all your money!
Ms Penny is well on her way to reaching his level though.
You however, Shamik, are just another of those lefties who don't like the fact that those who do well don't agree with giving up their hard earned money to fund your like.
I was born and raised in London and I won't accept racism of any sort, so I suggest you take your "ethnic" comment and shove it.
If you think opposition to anti white racism and anti male sexism makes me racist or sexist, I'd suggest you have a long think about why the BNP did so well in Labour areas. Maybe you're part of the problem of the BNP not a solution?
http://waugh.standard.co.uk/2009/06/bercow-v-bradby-a-classic.html
If Ms Penny and Shamik are the sort of envious socialists who like voting Labour in and begging them to steal more of my money then as far as I'm concerned calling any of them "oicks" is pretty mild.
You live and die by these things, so don't be surprised if some of the responses are as hard hitting as the threads.
"Removed by CF London! Scared of the truth, the cowards, bunch of litigious stuck-up t*****s"
If it bothers you that much perhaps you should take a break from reading LL for a fortnight or two?
I recall a couple of days ago one celebrated the fact that he could afford to send his children to private schools so they could avoid the local comprehensive which was "full of chavs". In fact, for all their accusations that the left is motivated by class envy/resentment, they exhibit more of that on this site than the Labour minded. Still, best not to sink to their level. "Thick Tory" it is!
No wonder. Knockout blow
The only way those of you on the left can win debates.. I'll wait for a "no platform" call soon
Charming!
LL published those choice remarks, so the old "you're censoring my comments" crap won't wash!
Censorship is such a wonderful thing
Although I'll admit my indignation at some of these posts is keeping from work so keeping me at said desk longer... ah well my fault then.
Nice response to the post though, you dealt with the main points well.
You can just admit that you are unemployed and blame it on the Labour government, no one would hold it against you.
In fact as I said given the time I spent on LL earlier, I ended up working far longer than would have been ideal.
Goes to show what a few brain dead socialists can do to atagonise people.
What about openness?
What about transparency?
Is this the Bullingdon Club photo all over again?
Call 'call me Dave', tell him his future cabinet (very near future if BB in The Telegraph has called it right) aren't being open and transparent.
Updated at 14:49
From Gary Gibbon @ Snowblog -
I am at David Cameron’s speech at Imperial College listening to a paen of praise to the virtues of transparency, free information, transparency and accountability
Secret of good comedy?
Timing
If it's copyrighted then fair enough.
As always Simon you manage to drop to a student prank level. What makes me think you are rather young and inexperienced?
Spotify
All I can tell you Hugh is that I used to spend £15 on a new CD and now I can legally get it for free with an internet connection. Call it what you want but it smells like progress to me.
If it works within the legal system and the market likes it then good luck to it.
Hardly "socialism at it's finest" but then as I've said I suspect you are very young and not that experienced
Explain to me how anyone is making money out of a couple of adverts every 20 minutes? Actually don't bother, the answer is they aren't. The business model of the music industry is f*****.
Spotify, YouTube and the rest means free music for the masses (great album, available on Spotify).
Enjoy comrades.
I'm pleased to have you announce to LL that you favour stealing the work of musicians and being happy that you get for free the product of their hard work. Personally I pay for the music I buy both online and in store. But then I think it's a moral issue.
This attitude is a lot like you stealing taxes from people isn't it?
The more I read of your posts Simon, the more I'm convinced you are very young, maybe not long out of teenage years and hence you don't have a lot of value or worth to bring to any debate.
The musicians have their 'product' on Spotify and YouTube voluntarily, how the f*** can it be stealing when someone offers it to you for nothing.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Warner-Music-Group-and-YouTube-Disagree-Over-Music-Licensing-100573.shtml
and
http://digg.com/tech_news/Youtube_beginning_to_mute_videos_with_copyrighted_music
The point was not directed at either youtube or the musicians but at the users (most of whom seem to be either young or not too bright) who use those platforms to try to get around copyright issues.
Your "free music for the masses" quote is rather stupid as nothing is "free" and someone pays one way or another.
But as I said you are very young it seems, part of "yooff culture" no doubt and not a very good poster.
Explain to me what I have stolen.
Report me to the police for theft.
Oh no you can't can you because you're talking rubbish.
As for people who use Spotify being 'either young or not too bright' I take it you include people who write for The Times in that -
Spotify - Times Online.
Note the part that states 'free, legal and quick'.
As for not being too bright, what sort of idiot pays £10 for something that is available for free? How charitable of you.
Oh and while we're at it, get someone to teach you how to link using html, cut and paste is so last century.
Like an episode of Life on Mars, Simon has been beamed back to the 1970s where Guy M yells about 'long haired students' and tells them to 'Get off his lawn'.
Don't worry Simon. Youre not in a coma. Youre on LL
Yours M Guy
PS How dare you be young fun and hip! I find your whole 'yoofulness' completely insulting, but I cheer myself with the realisation that it wont last. Wait till the next general election sonny boy. Id wager youll be 'older' then, but dont come crying to me when that happens
If I pay for the Kasabian CD / download then there is the possibility - remote though it is - that given the high level of drug use amongst some of those who work in the music industry, some of that money may end up in the pockets of drug dealers.
Therefore, you have to ask yourself, which is the more moral stance?
To pay or not to pay?
Labour's policy remains the same: "We are not the Tories". Powerful stuff.
'the Tories do more for people on council estates than Labour'
'the current crisis is not in any way a basis to question capitalism'
'what can we take from places like the Cayman Islands and Jersey and apply to Britain to make business want to come here'
'what's your proof that there is global warming'
'every woman in society should be a mother'
my favourite though: 'at the end of the day the Conservative party is pretty rock and roll coz it er, protects ya taxes'.
Is that the best we can hope for from the Conservative party in the years to come?
Quality, not as good as the Republican Party hip-hip makeover though -
I thought that there was 'no such thing as society' in their small little world?
The basic point of the 'at the end of the day the Conservative party is pretty rock and roll coz it er, protects ya taxes' point eludes you still doesn't it?
My money is money I earned for which you and your party did little of nothing to warrant taking it. You have no automatic right to it and yes the Tory party is far more likely to protect my tax levels than a party driven by social and class envy.
You and your political philosophy Simon are nothing more than "it's not faiiiir he's got more than me" and will be consigned to a long period of opposition very soon.
Reminds me of 1996 and the Euro Championships except this time my money is coming home rather than ending up in your pocket.
1 Does destroying the country's finances, decreasing social mobility, increasing teenage crime and the size of the underclass represent Labour's work for people on council estates?
2 The current crisis as was pointed out (by a Tory PPC not a CF member) is not a starting point to question capitalism. But far be it for me to stop Labour youth and posters here call for some good old fashioned socialism as it would be worth a lot of votes to the Tories.
3 The Caymans and Jersey have some advantages most notably low taxation. So if you believe in low taxation then the phrase "what can we take from places like the Cayman Islands and Jersey and apply to Britain to make business want to come here" seems quite reasonable.
4 There are global warming nay-sayers in all political parties, so filming one drunk slightly unhinged young girl doesn't say much. I'm a very green Tory and climate change deniers get me pretty annoyed, but I seem to remember a thread on LL a few days ago with a number of Labour supporters critical of the IPCC. Does that make the Labour party all mad anti-environmentalists?
5 Stupid view pushing her personal views on all women. About as stupid as feminists like Ms Penny on LL pushing their feminist tripe on all women.
6 The taxes quote. This is where I get really pro those CF members. I am sick to death with socialists and posters on LL who feel they have some god given right to take as much of my hard earned money as they see fit to waste on their leftie schemes.
My simple message would be, you go earn some money or create some wealth and YOU give it up to spend on projects that I don't believe in.
So in terms of protecting me against high taxation, then yep the Tory party is that party.
This film was another childish attempt by a childish set of Labour kids to perpetuate a political myth. On top of that they and you Morys can't get your heads around the fact that a large percentage of the UK does believe:
* Labour does little or no good for any social group in the country
* Capitalism is the only tried and tested succesful method of governance
* Low taxation does attract busines capital and incentivise people to work harder
* Women "can't have it all" and most realise this and chose between familty and career at various points in their lives
* Low taxation is attractive and don't believe the Labour party knows better what to do with our hard earned money.
In other words all those CF members were doing is highlighting in a typical young person way the basis of the ideological divide between left and right.
Can I say (I was an old YC Area Chairman years ago) that if you want to try to tar young Tories it is quite easy to tar young Labour members as well. I remember from my university days, as I'd head of to represent the uni at some sport on a wednesday afternoon there'd be a large group of labour students huddled in the bar, shabby, bearded often holding court about life's injustices and totally opposed to notions of sport, personal hygiene and the fact that people rather liked keeping more of the money they earnt.
This thread is once again another in a long line of childish and immature posts from socialist deliquents (Ms Penny being a main member)>
This was the dumbest thing he said. The population of Jersey is 91,000, of the Caymans is 48,000. These two territories exist solely on being tax havens. Jersey's income from agriculture and tourism is minuscule compared to the money it makes from being a tax haven. Does Jersey or the Caymans actually make the money that sits in their banks? Do the companies registered in those two territories actually do anything there?
No. Now scale up to a country of 60m (like ours). Where can we find all those companies and individuals willing to use the UK as a tax haven? Has that much money ever been created?
It is utter nonsense to think that the UK (or any country) can have taxes that low. impossible.
The Tories are really scraping the barrel these days.
Of course the climate changes - there is only one way it can remain the same and and an infinite number of ways it can change - the odds of the climate remaining constant are vanishingly small.
The amount and direction of change that is due to mankind is a wide open question, whether mankind can take control of future change is also a wide open question.
Sometime in the future the sun is going to explode and destroy our solar system - I don't lose sleep over it.
What is blairs carbon foot print? what is the cabinets? what about prince charles? if these massively well informed people who have the money to do whatever they really care about don't see the need to change their behaviour I don't know why the public should be dumped on.
FWIW: Carbon offset doesn't count -- if people want to pay to plant trees, then they could pay to plant them and *STILL* not fly -- if they really cared about their carbon foot print. (I don't much care about mine, I probably count as fairly frugal, so I can happily live without worrying about a precise figure).
Without a totalitarian dictatorship people will not significantly change their behaviour - that is their choice, they are sovereign in their life choices.
Me? I'd like to buy land so my grandchildren (should I get any) can start olive groves and vinyards in southern england...
When I read the feed above, I did wonder if you where in a glass house with a stone in your hand. You and Simon were both childish and in a sense devalued the debate around the video. If Simon is younger and less experienced than you, to some extent I would have expected you as the ADULT to behave responsibly.
Anyway on the video, what did you expect, the Tory party is the same Tory party it has always being and always will be. They are the same party whose heritage is in ensuring that the masses did not have the vote so that the land owners could be have their interests looked after. The same party who set out and destroyed the mining communities in this country so ruthlessly that the effects are still felt, the same party who have reduced the power of collective representation through unions (which Labour have done nothing about), the same party who oppose the minimum wage, the same party which will try and bring back hunting as one of its first acts etc, etc.
On the issue of Tax reduction, how can any party do a reduction on it when some of the MPs are living the high life on it!
There should also be a video about the Labour youth movement to see what they are up to, than we could compare the two.
A young lady in 'The New Young Conservatives' clip claimed that 'the Conservative Party is pretty rock and roll coz it er, protects ya taxes'. Now as far as I'm aware, there is only one good song ever written about taxes and that was by The Beatles who quite rightly weren't happy with a Labour government taking 95% of their income.
Apart from that, rock and roll and taxes are not natural bedfellows and so the suggestion that Conservative taxation policy is 'rock and roll' is just asking to be ridiculed.
In order to illustrate the comedy value of this claim I drew a parallel with Michael Steele, the chairman of the Republican Party. Mr Steele has claimed that - after losing the 2008 presidential election to Barack Obama - what his party needed was an 'off the hook hip-hop makeover'.
This attempt at associating a political party that is mainly made up of middle and upper class white males with a musical genre that grew out of black ghetto culture is as ridiculous as the Tory / taxation / rock and roll claim.
I guess I could have spelt this out originally but I thought the video was more interesting and concise. Once again, sorry if it wasn't 'grown up' enough for you.
Maybe Alex should put an 18 rating on this site so we all know to be adult.
You're too young to remember 'Cool Brittania' and TheWarCriminal filling up No10 with members of popular beat comboes then?
And I well remember Noel Gallagher, Meg Matthews and Alan McGee in Downing Street, a low point for me given how much I love Creation.
However, one can at least imagine Tony Blair listening to Oasis but I sincerely doubt Bush, McCain, Romney, Jindal, Huckabee or any other of the other leading Republicanss would sit down of an evening and listen to Lil Jon, but if you know better, I'm happy to be proved wrong.
Governor Sanford perhaps?.
I was just concerned that the video was something that we could of really talked about to try and uncover what Tory policy really is (could be hard as they don't seem to know). I just had a feeling that the comments between you and Guy could have stopped people contributing.
I did think that Guy calling you childish could not be allowed to pass.
Yeah PMQs can be a nightmare though I thought Speaker Bercow handled his first outing very well.
I have to say I didn't take the YC video very seriously and that obviously came across in my posts. It's not the greatest suprise that you can find young Conservatives with conservative views but the fact that they had it pulled for copyright infringement (who's exactly) at the same time Cameron was giving a speech about the need for openness and transparency just heightened my amusement.
I take your point about some of the discourse on here putting people off, Alex has done a top job of moving the site on from DD but there's a way to go before it moves on from a slagging match between commies and libertarians.
Don't worry about Guy's digs, I've heard it all from him so many times before it's lost all effect by now.
Minimum wage, working tax credits, removal of up-front payments for university, sure start... right the way through to the smaller things like making our top museums free - pretty much all these things have helped me and many others too I'm sure.
"Capitalism is the only tried and tested successful method of governance"
Is capitalism a method of governance or a means of distributing goods? I thought democracy was our method of governance...
"Low taxation does attract busines capital and incentivise people to work harder"
True, but banking secrecy and under-regulated markets lead to the kind of situation we're in now. A situation where the people who really suffer are not the wealthy who benefit most from the tax 'incentives', but the poor.
"Women "can't have it all" and most realise this and chose between familty and career at various points in their lives"
Fair enough, but that is not what the interviewee said is it. They said that ideally every woman should be a mother. I thought Conservatives didn't like the state interfering with their private lives?
"Low taxation is attractive and don't believe the Labour party knows better what to do with our hard earned money"
Lower taxes are attractive, but do they always lead to a fairer, more equal society? Should we be aiming for a society oriented around profit and wealth creation for the few, or one that aims to improve equality and services for the many?
Well, what's the best we can hope for from Labour if the strength of the 'yoof' contributions here are anything to go by?
Like unilateral nuclear disarmament? Anti straight-white-males? Trots defending the rights of illegal immigrant to remain? Entrench Labour law into the Constitution?
The Tories do less for people in the Cotswolds than Labour.
social housing anyone?