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The end of the popular movement?

milehigh

by Morys Ireland

There was an interesting article in the Independent on Sunday about declining membership levels in the Conservative party, with research suggest a 21.5% drop since David Cameron's election as leader. But the phenomenon is not unique to the Tories, Labour too have seen drastic falls in membership levels since 1997.

One could argue that the race to the 'centre ground' of British politics has led to the larger parties losing touch with their 'core vote' and becoming somewhat less inspirational. Whatever the cause, a dangerous by-product of this drop in membership is a real change in where parties obtain their funding.

Political parties are supposed to be popular movements, campaigning for the country to governed in one particular way or another, organised and funded by their members. But when membership levels start to fall, parties are obliged to turn to other sources for funding. The big three parties seem now to be more interested in soliciting donations from millionaires than from members.

But while members expect little return from their contributions, millionaires quite naturally expect something more than a quarterly newsletter and a little plastic card from theirs. In other words, a level of corruption is apparently now necessary in order to obtain adequate funding for a political party.

While there are of course some wealthy supporters who genuinely back a particular political party and expect nothing in return for their donations, the increasing reliance on affluent donors is worrying. One solution to the problem could be state-funded political parties - removing the need to seek shady donations just to cover a party's day-to-day expenses.

It could be argued that this would be the final nail in the coffin for the 'popular movement' - but the essence of a popular movement could be retained in such a system if the amount of funding a party received was proportional to its membership, with membership and funding of parties being overseen by an independent regulator.

Inevitably though, such a system would not address the key question - what is it about the main political parties today that has caused so many of their members to leave, and so few new members to join? Clearly the best solution to the problem of party funding is to reinvigorate politics.

The Obama campaign showed that when politics is inspirational millions of ordinary people will donate - for example more than three million online donors gave an average of around each. Obama was shrewd to turn down public funding in favour of private donations. Whether this was done for ideological or financial reasons is debatable, but it does show that the traditional model of the 'popular movement' is still by far the most powerful force in politics.

The challenge for British parties is to inject some of this enthusiasm into our own political scene. I'm sure many voters feel that there are too few dividing lines between the main parties, that it almost doesn't matter who they vote for any more. It is this crisis of ideology, or perhaps lack of it, that must be addressed if we are to have parties which are popular movements and keep politics in the hands of the people.

Posted on Sep 07, 2009 at 10:22am

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Hi Ash

Very moving comments. I am sure Guy will enjoy your comments.

In Unity

MA
Mike Aistrop @ 26 weeks and 1 day ago
Greta Garbo did it better, Ash.

Tim Robins @ 26 weeks and 1 day ago
the last thing guy wants is to be left alone.
such is life.


OH is all bluster - no bite.


such is our brethren who don't want Labour but still want to be valued - on a site where Labour minded people come together.


They get our love though. They inspire us...we inspire them.


as the saying love inspires. I wish all good health.
ash cash @ 26 weeks and 1 day ago
Hi All

I don't understand how Guy continuously demands to be left alone and not to be bothered by anybody, and yet, and yet, he is sooooooooo willing to inflict his views on everybody else. Still sometimes makes for interesting reading.

In Unity

MA
Mike Aistrop @ 26 weeks and 1 day ago
"I find nothing amusing in the nonsense I see pushed on LL."

Is Guy M a masochist? I think we should be told ....
Peter Barnard @ 26 weeks and 2 days ago
Are you indicating my views in particular there or those currently occupying Downing Street? I presume it is the latter as you have said a few times recently that you agree with me on certain issues - has to be one or the other?

I tend to agree that the electorate are not amused with what has happened recently within and around the Labour Party and as I'm sure you're already aware, neither am I, but you don't seriously belief that the majority hold similar views to yours Guy? Some maybe, but others and especially the way you word them would have a large number of people either laughing or standing with their mouths open in shock.

I wasn't attempting to trade insults with you incidently, I was genuinely asking whether you were going to be leaving the LL after the elections.
Bill Dewison @ 26 weeks and 2 days ago
To be a comic foil it's best if you have no sense of humour. An example might be the actress Margaret Dumont who played the "straight man", figuratively speaking, to Groucho Marx in many Marx Brothers films, notably Animal Crackers, Duck Soup, A Night at the Opera, A Day at the Races and At the Circus.

Grocho claimed that Margaret was the perfect comic foil to his wit because she had no sense of humour or any idea as to what was going on comically around her in any of her roles; this bewildered innocence made her appear hysterically funny to audiences.

Same with you, Guy.

It is your white knuckled seriousness and passion unleavened by a single grain of playfulness and humour that make you comments so diverting.

God bless you and all who sail in you!
Tim Robins @ 26 weeks and 2 days ago
You're ripostes are hysterical, Guy.

The next thing you'll say is that your dad can beat up my dad or similar!

How old are you? Twelve?
Tim Robins @ 26 weeks and 2 days ago
I'm with you 100% there, Bill.

I really don't think Guy has any idea of how amusing he really is, albeit unintentionally. Just mention anything to the left of Atilla the Hun; give Guy a soapbox to stand on or carpet to chew; stand back and enjoy the fun!

Long may he remain the comedic Conservative curmudgeon of Labour List.

Bless.
Tim Robins @ 26 weeks and 2 days ago
The reason some of don't think it deserves the term is that doesn't really have any ideals about the nature of human life and society.

And given this is one of the 3 ineliminable elements of an ideology I'd like to thank Mr Bendle for answering the question that was beyond Mr ..

Conservatism
Socialism
Feminism
Third wayism???

Spot the odd one out

ps - PJ O Rourke is a legend :)
Louis Mazzini @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
It's a bit more (or less) than a strand of thought within Social Democracy, Daniel - it's been around for 100 years and it's been claimed by everyone from the Fabians to one nation conservatives. As for whether it's an ideology or not, it depends on you definition.

The reason some of don't think it deserves the term is that doesn't really have any ideals about the nature of human life and society. It's like saying an instruction to a football team to do whatever it takes to get the ball in the net is "tactics; the ideology is that there is no ideology.

"A clarion call to whatever" as PJ O Rourke called it.
B Bendle @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
Sorry I can't bring it down to your level.
Louis Mazzini @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
Are you honestly trying to claim that you can't give your definition of the word "ideology" without a 600 page document?

Lame.
MonkeyBot 5000 @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
actually i am a bit confused and a bit imprecise.


cameron has presented the Tories as hip.cool.
Sir George perhaps is less in that category than Mr Cameron has presented the modern Tories to be.


Sir George Young is a fine counterbalance to Tony Wright - both members of the Liason Commitee as chairman of other commitees. Both seen as ethical and well meaning with a longstanding interest in the reform of parliament.

Sir George Young is old school - a grandee...and Mr Cameron has chosen to distance himself from some of 'em. why?


Most crucial though is how pro-anti Europe Sir George is. Is he pragmatic enough to get closer to Europe if our international standing depends on it.....


For me this is a area of great confusion. One nation Tory implies pragmatism above all else? Is he such or is he from the Norman tebbit end of the party. Perhaps soemone can enlighten.


Am I wrong in thinking that the One Nation Tories will side with Europe and against isolationism when our international standing depends on it - to the extent that we may have no say on international bodies as an individual Westen Europe country - i.e in (not so distant?) future we may not have an international voice out side EU.
ash cash @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
well....


I agree. Though double standards is something i suppose we must not accuse our politcal leadership of....


Having said that the change is in the right direction.

co-incidently it also strengthens the ken clarke-chrisPatten axis.
ash cash @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
Of course Gordon punished the worst expenses fraudsters in his Cabinet by, er, leaving them in post. He's such a Presbyterian moraliser. It was the right thing to do.
Bill Lockhart @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
"Now I find there's just as much we agree on as we don't..."

From the Tories I know they'd be deeply upset to be told they agree with you as much as disagree.

Marx was right, it's a battle between left/right and middle class/ working class and there can be no middle bround, agreement and no compromise.

If ever the Tory party work with or align themselves with leftwing policy they lose my membership, support, vote, money and time.

You and your ideas are to be opposed by the right Peter, never agreed with or tolerated.
Guy M @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
How about naming names, I can't recall anyone blindly supporting Cameron...

He may not get much criticism compared to brown, but then what responsibilities/duties has he got? The worst Cameron could do is damage the conservative party - Brown is damaging every family and individual (even some not yet born) in this country (and many abroad).
tory 'killed for telling the uncomfortable truth' troll @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
Good point
Peter Jukes @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
If it's an ideology, please tell me the tacit assumptions it makes about human nature?
Louis Mazzini @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
The moment Labour removed the right of constituency parties at conference was when grassroots support started to wither on the vine. Now membership has crashed.
Oh, and the tory policies of Blair.
And now there's only the corporate seekers who have cash to offer. Whops! Gordon's mad public spending has put them off too.
There's still the unions. Except they've decided that Labours policies are too anti-union to waste their members' subscriptions on.
What goes around comes around.
And so you're seeking to raid taxpayers pockets to fund morally bankrupt self-serving politicians with an 'independent' regulator? Who regulates the regulator?
William Silver @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
No somebody needs to take Politics 101.

Third Way is a strand of thought within Social Democracy (an ideology), which seeks to better allign the goals of Social Democracy (ideological goals) with new political and economic realities.
Daniel . @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
I'd agree with that and vice versa check out Conservative home comments.

I suppose it's Churchill's philosophy of not criticising one's country abroad.
Siberian Tory @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
The "third way" was quite clearly an ideology

Sure and Blair was ideological as Daniel. claimed. That must have been why he paid so much attention to focus groups.

As for the book, do what you want. It's beyond my ability to sum up a 600 page academic study right here.

So much easier just to copy and paste from a dictionary site eh MB5000?
Louis Mazzini @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
Arf arf!

Gordomort is indeed sucking the life blood from me and my family - but we can probably survive till the next election - the real question is how long it will take for the next government to turn things around, and if we can survive till they do.


tory 'killed for telling the uncomfortable truth' troll @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
The drop in tory numbers is most probably old members dying

Have you not realised? They're not dying - the Dark Lord is murdering you all in your beds one by one.

And you thought he couldn't win Labour a fourth term! Naive, TT, naive.
B Bendle @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
*******Breaking News**********************


alan "I live on rations" duncan gets the sack.
(source:daily telegraph)


Beware Mr Cameron - you may yourself get the sack one day.
ash cash @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
Saying that you believe it's wrong to punch random strangers in the back of the head is a statement of ideology.

No, that's a statement of morality. Not punching strangers on the head doesn't come with an attendant superstructure of social and historical narratives. An ideology, by its nature, tends to provide a totalising explanation of ethics, knowledge and even aesthetics.
Peter Jukes @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
Actually, I think your sampling is wrong. Most Labour minded supporters I find commenting round here are pretty critical of the current government. Very few Tories openly critical of Cameron
Peter Jukes @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
You would be no better or worse a neighbour than any I have had.

So long as you left me alone and didn't bother me you'd do as well as any other.
Guy M @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
I find nothing amusing in the nonsense I see pushed on LL.

What I see is perfect examples of how Labour have destroyed the UK over 12 years and why it is imperative that they are removed at the earliest opportunity almost irrespective of who follows them.

I suspect that a large % of the general public also finds nothing "amusing" about my views but a weary cynicism about you, your views and the whole left wing political class you represent.

Labour is at a historic low in the polls, the BNP vote goes up, overall turn out is down, party membership goes through the floor and distrust with politicians is at an all time high. That is the Labour legacy so if you think I amuse you then god help your political movements because the public are far from amused with you and yours
Guy M @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
How do you square that with your last comment?

You're not telling me to read a book, you're just telling me to buy it from Amazon? If you're using a different definition of the word ideologue that proves your point, tell us what it is.

The "third way" was quite clearly an ideology and not one I necessarily disagreed with. The idea of combining the best of socialism and capitalism seemed a quite sensible goal to me.
MonkeyBot 5000 @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
Louis Mazzini @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
Which is?
MonkeyBot 5000 @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
"Society can go hang, community can go with it. Leave me alone and stop bothering me, I need no advice, help or calls for my "contribution"."

I'm inclined to agree with you. Every time I'm about to, you label me or my friends and family as an underclass or a criminal for going to a state comp or living on a council estate at some point.

If we could find a railway track to live either side of, we'd be great neighbours.
MonkeyBot 5000 @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
I didn't tell you to read any book, I merely expressed my preference for a particular defintion.
Louis Mazzini @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
Are you seriously going to quit the LL if (or when depending on your perspective) Labour lose the general election?

You can't be doing that, you make me laugh in a way no one else does on nearly a daily basis! I've paid a good few quid out to go and watch comedians who haven't amused me as much as you do.
Bill Dewison @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
Both main parties have moved away from their traditional supporters and are now finding that the middle-of-the-road floaters are not really interested in real politics just in their own petty selfish interests.
Tom Sacold @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
I'd say there seems to be a similar number of Labour trolls and Tory trolls.

I think it says more about humanity as a whole than it does about either party.
MonkeyBot 5000 @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
The definition of ideology you choose to use is probably irrelevant.

The point is that the term is used as a meaningless pejorative. Saying that you believe it's wrong to punch random strangers in the back of the head is a statement of ideology. Any manifesto produced by a political party could be equally described as ideology or reasoned principles and policy suggestions depending on your standing.

If you're using some uncommon definition of ideologue please enlighten me. Link it or type it - telling someone to read a book in an internet debate could be taken as an argument from authority.
MonkeyBot 5000 @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago


>


How can we channel our energies to finding politicians/creating a system of democracy that we trust.



You are an insider Guy. and if you do not trust politicians....what hope is there for the rest of us.
ash cash @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
Thanks for that MB5000 but I prefer Freeden's Ideology and Political Theory for a more precise definition of the term.

Louis Mazzini @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
A deal as soon as you and your party are consigned to the electoral wasteland that awaits you.

You can't handle the concept that the general public doesn't want or need your advice or attention can you?
Guy M @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
i·de·ol·o·gy
n. pl. i·de·ol·o·gies
1. The body of ideas reflecting the social needs and aspirations of an individual, group, class, or culture.
2. A set of doctrines or beliefs that form the basis of a political, economic, or other system.


If Blair wasn't ideological then he must have just been like chameleon Dave. No real principles, just doing whatever was people wanted at the time. Unfortunately, pragmatism only seems to be a positive virtue when the pragmatist has the same goals as you (the general, not specific) do.

MonkeyBot 5000 @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
ppl join other things.


probaly the issue based smaller party membership have gone up - as well as the likes of compass and progress. The issue of the difficulty of influencing the party is very pertinent. Perhaps the solutions lie in open primaries, audits of the office of our elected representatives and local democracy. The hard core that is us lot are online as that is as effective a way as anyone to influence.
voter numbers are small.In the mix is also the to mind the critical fact that the public service minded ethical politicians who have the maturity to be leaders of our community are hard to spot.
ash cash @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
Yes, some governance would be great.
Charlie Farley @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
So vote UKIP then - right wing and libertarian
Mike Homfray @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
For the same reason that the same thing happenbed to the Tories in 97. Electoral cycle
Mike Homfray @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
You've highlighted the problem yourself, why deal with the real problems like the continuation of the failed banking system, permawar or the environment when petty pointless rule making is so much easier and more enjoyable to our petty, joyless government.

Well, since I'm not a member of any party, and your constant recourse is 'a plague on all your (parliamentary) houses, I wonder how you're going to deal with those 'real' problems without collective action, and perhaps some governance, Charlie?

Short of answering how that can be done about Bank deregulation in your scheme of things, we're just going round in circles.

Hence I cut the Gordian knot, and ask how a libertarian solution (no government action, only freely assembling individuals) can solve it
Peter Jukes @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
But I think in reality, the libertarian issues are very much a minority sport. They are also something which it is not easy to build a coherent movement around
Mike Homfray @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
But people get involved with plenty of other things instead. Just not political parties.

I think its more that the parties have converged and that its really quite difficult to influence them unless you are in a very tight-knit inner circle. So, people with strong views find that they are not heard and cannot have much of a say.
Mike Homfray @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
I feel your pain.

As a palliative why not adopt a policy of mutual and reciprocal shunning as far as loquacious left wingers are concerned? Labour List will avoid you (like a centre of pestilence) and you in turn will desist from commenting on Labour List, quid pro quo.

Is it a deal?
Tim Robins @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
Static analysis? I think of it as logic. You're answer is essentially "But that was different."

One could have an argument about whther the Third Way was ideology or pragmatism, but you cannot seriously argue that Cameron is not ideological whereas Blair is/was? If so, then "Compassionate Conservatism" is an ideology.

Anyway, why do you think I should want to suggest ways to reinvigorate the Labour Party?
B Bendle @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
Sorry Charlie but I've never suggested anything like the premise of your first sentence.

All I am saying is that there is a very obvious trend amongst certain posters on LL that they are here to defend the Conservatives no matter what and will under no circumstance, acknowledge the obvious issues within their own party
Louis Mazzini @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
I had been a Tory "activist" for many years, I stood in local elections, I was an approved candidate (just resigned from it by the way).

I came to the conclusion that I trust all politicians little more than I trust the sun not to come up tomorrow morning.

Society can go hang, community can go with it. Leave me alone and stop bothering me, I need no advice, help or calls for my "contribution".

I suspect that is the reason for falling membership. Do-gooding busy bodies like we find endlessly on LL are the reason why the general public want nothing to do with politics.
Guy M @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
You need to get over your 'libertarian' fixation Peter, its just become another way to dismiss people you disagree with on subjects you can't or won't defend. Do you really see no value in any of those points?

You've highlighted the problem yourself, why deal with the real problems like the continuation of the failed banking system, permawar or the environment when petty pointless rule making is so much easier and more enjoyable to our petty, joyless government.

Yes voting is great, at the risk of being called names, we should have one on Europe sometime. 'Something new to say' when all you and LL can manage is 'not quite as bad as the Toriezz!!'?
Charlie Farley @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
Somehow I knew we'd get the Ninny state mention, Charlie...

What happened to thinking of something new to say?

My take BTW on these libertarian talking points is: yes, the state should be monitored and controlled (thank god a think called voting exists to help in that) but we must also be protected from corporations and other bodies (credit rating agencies etc) not to mention other individuals (knife wielding crazed scouts) who would impinge on our liberties.

Law is one of the ways we protect our freedoms... and what underwrites the Law?
Peter Jukes @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
The drop in tory numbers is most probably old members dying.

So little William Hague was right all them years ago....
Louis Mazzini @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
Louis, do you really not think its possible to hate everything this government stands for but not be a Tory?

Me, I hate the middle-class champagne-socialist interlopers who have all but destroyed the Labour Party. When the tories do get in, I know who I'll be blaming and it won't be David Cameron.
Charlie Farley @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
Is Louis a government minister? We should be told...
Peter Jukes @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
Are they no longer getting regular talking points downloaded to their brain from the Central Office Server?

That's quite funny Peter when we are reduced to not being able to hear a single sentence from a government minister that hasn't been learned from an emailed script!
Charlie Farley @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
It's terrible Peter. I blame the government ;)

This could have all been avoided if there was just the slightest recognition that perhaps things aren't all rosy in the Tory garden, but oh no, you mustn't show weakness when you're a troll, what would the billy goats think?
Louis Mazzini @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
The drop in tory numbers is most probably old members dying.

Younger people tend not to be bothered about 'making up numbers' or just 'being a member' - if they really want to get involved and do stuff then they will join, if not they will not...

The tories don't need any help from me to get elected, Brown is doing more than anyone else ever could...

The drop in Labour numbers seems to be people who joined in the early blair 'glory' days not wanting to be associated with what labour has become responsible for...
tory 'killed for telling the uncomfortable truth' troll @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
What's happened to our dear trolls, Louis? Are they no longer getting regular talking points downloaded to their brain from the Central Office Server?

Without online suppoty, their IQ has dropped below room temperature.
Peter Jukes @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
Can anyone explain why the SNP's membership in Scotland is growing while the 'big three' membership's in Scotland is leaking like a sieve?

A 'blip' perhaps?

Couldn't be the SNP have policies that a growing number of Scots folk think are good for Scotland, nah, it couldn't be that. It must just be a 'blip'; just like the SNP's sustained 28% vote share in the week after Megarhi was supposed to be a disaster for the SNP - according to Labour in Scotland.

Maybe the big three no longer are seen to be addressing members needs and expectations, that might just explain the decline.
Peter Thomson @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
Oh dear. Someone doesn't know what an ideology is.
Louis Mazzini @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
I was right. The standard of trolling has dropped off something terrible :)
Louis Mazzini @ 26 weeks and 3 days ago
Third way.
Daniel . @ 26 weeks and 4 days ago
Yawn.
Daniel . @ 26 weeks and 4 days ago
I don't need a dictionary to be able to spell xxx
Louis Mazzini @ 26 weeks and 4 days ago

Blair wasn't ideological
, he was famous for rejecting it in favour of 'what works' (whatever that meant).

Is it just me or has the standard of trolling dropped off recently?
Louis Mazzini @ 26 weeks and 4 days ago
Whilst you have dictionary in hand you should look up "magnitude".
Daniel . @ 26 weeks and 4 days ago
Why did my leadership election comment not get published?

It WOULD be a good way to re-engage with members. And Brown DID bully his way into the top job thereby trampling the wishes of members...
Daniel . @ 26 weeks and 4 days ago
If you didn't notice Tony Blair actually had an ideology... just slightly different to the ravings of Michael Foot et al.

And William Hague's tenure was a failure for different reasons. LESS OF THE STATIC ANALYSIS.

The fact remains. Labour is dying, and you do not even want to suggest ways to reinvigorate the party. Well done.
Daniel . @ 26 weeks and 4 days ago
You are completely burrying your head in the sand...

Says the person who doesn't see it as a problem for the Tories that they're shedding members when this is as good as it gets for them.

You have a keen sense of irony Mr ., I'll give you that.

(Just the one 'r' in burying by the way)
Louis Mazzini @ 26 weeks and 4 days ago
Sand aside, what do you mean re the less ideological leader/drop off?

By that logic Hague should have attracted members, (but he didn't), and Blair should have lost them in the mid 90s (but he didn't).
B Bendle @ 26 weeks and 4 days ago
But Peter there are many things to 'take sides' over and the 'growing consensus' hides stuff equally as nasty as big as the miners, Falklands, South Africa etc; Iraq, ID Cards, Afghanistan, Europe, The Ninny State (no, not a misprint, I see today that Scouts can't carry penknives anymore!) and the continuing incompetence and greed of our incompetent and greedy Overlords.
Charlie Farley @ 26 weeks and 4 days ago
There is another way of looking at this...

The libertarian loons not withstanding, there is now a growing consensus around the old ideological battles of the past. Just as the cold war has ended, the difference between a social democrat and a conservative these days, on economics, is not around the huge issues of privatisation versus nationaliaation; on social policy, respect for minorities of different ethnicities, religions or sexual orientation, is enshrined in laws like civil partnerships: even the great old culture wars about the Church, fox hunting, etc etc. are a thing of the past. There has been a decline of mass movements in politics because, except round the edges, there really are no huge ideological gulfs anymore around the mixed economy, or importing cruise missiles, or closing down the mining industry.

It's just a thought to put into the mix. I certainly feel (despite the trolls one finds on LL) that actually there has been more political consensus for the last couple of decades, compared to the two before them. In the 80s, rather like democrats in the US now, I wouldn't even consider dating someone from the opposite party. I knew few Tories, and when I did, it was a point of ideological contention so great (South Africa/Cruise/Falklands) there was no way we could be friends. Now I find there's just as much we agree on as we don't...

When politics is boring, it's probably a sign of success. It may get more interesting in the next decade, but what do the Chinese say?

Cursed be you who live in interesting times.
Peter Jukes @ 26 weeks and 4 days ago
You are completely burrying your head in the sand...
Daniel . @ 26 weeks and 4 days ago
"Yes Labour are shedding members but that is to be expected at the end of a long period in office."

Actually it didn't take a particularly long period in office; they've been losing members since 1999, I believe. At the 97 election they had about 400,000; by 2001 it was 311,000. As I've mentioned elsewhere, Blair provided a much bigger boost to the numbers than Cameron, but then the Tories' membership hadn't fallen as low.
Hugh Pettit @ 26 weeks and 4 days ago
So the hang 'em and flog 'em brigade are leaving because Dave doesn't believe in much and they aren't being replaced by mincing metrosexuals (hat-tip F.Maude).

I see now, thanks xxx
Louis Mazzini @ 26 weeks and 4 days ago
Yes - as long as the public can keep the political parties hands out of their wallets that should be the end of the labour party as we know it - totally bankrupt - good job too.

However it does give you the opportunity to build an entirely new 'party' structure - something that the public have been calling for...

Your MPS won't like it (neither will union bosses) - but they are really part of the problem - make the labour party 'the peoples party' using modern technology, honesty and openness - ditch the entire current generation of hopeless individuals (anyone who didn't challenge brown head on should be made to regret it as much as the public do).

Its your only chance -- browns party must be dead and buried before labour can ever be taken seriously again.
tory 'killed for telling the uncomfortable truth' troll @ 26 weeks and 4 days ago
Politics is largeley pointless now, we have the choice between the barking right-wing loony over-privileged multi-millionaire patronising toffs and the Toriezz.

That and people are fed up of being lied to and let down time after time after time.
Charlie Farley @ 26 weeks and 4 days ago
And the Tories have a less ideological leader, hence a drop off.

But this is not a total collapse like Labour is experiencing. This is borderline terminal.
Daniel . @ 26 weeks and 4 days ago
The Conservative Party will be fine, you don't need to worry about them. A 20% dip is nothing compared with what is happening to Labour.

Labour really do have a crisis of purpose and direction which is demonstrated by its crumbling membership. To try to blame this on a wider phenomenon is to bury your head in the sand.

You should better focus on why members and voters are deserting Labour in their droves.

Daniel . @ 26 weeks and 4 days ago
General point to the trolls -

Yes Labour are shedding members but that is to be expected at the end of a long period in office.

The Tories on the other hand are doing well in the polls, have a popular leader (apparently) and are expected to form a government within 9 months which makes it very odd that this isn't being translated into increased or at the very least stable membership.

Comparing Labour and Tory membership trends is pointless given their respective positions in the cycle. Tory v Lib Dem would be more interesting.
Louis Mazzini @ 26 weeks and 4 days ago
The reason both Parties are losing members is simply because both Parties never
deliver on thier promises.The difference between them is negligble but they pretend that they are so different.
The British Public want one thing, to be governed by honest and clever people not the useless Party hacks that are offered.
We go from one Party to another when the stench of lies and corruption becomes unbearable but we know who ever is elected next will continue down the same path and end up as hated as Major, Bliar and now Brown.
EU membership even though every poll says the British want out? the Politicians continue to lie lie lie but keep signing away all of our rights.
Thieves Cheats Spivs and Liars inhabit the House and whenever caught are never punished but instead promoted.
Taxes keep on rising because of appaling management of the Economy and the
ever increasing burden of the Public Sector.
To force upon us the most disgusting piece of Propoganda/ Legislation in the form of the Human Rights Act, laws to protect the Murderers, thieves and Paedophiles.
Green Poltics the biggest scam used to force more unwanted Legislation and biased opinions on us and nothing more than an excuse to raise Taxes.
The War on Terror is nothing more than an excuse to invade Countries with Oil and then allow the USA and the UK to murder and steal without Punishment.
I could go on but to do so will only depress me further...Great Britian needs the Great to be removed, we are nothing more than a lacky to Europe and the U.S.
When did we finally give up on our own people? why do we allow millions to come here and take the jobs, houses and services we have paid for?
We are a busted Nation created by the non entities lined up to rule us since the end of WW2. A bunch of useless (always proved as once as ministerial post is given)never had a real wealth creating job in thier lives MPs.





Phillip Wells @ 26 weeks and 4 days ago
The use of "compassion" as a brand strikes me as odd for the Conservatives as it makes a mistake the middle-class/intellectual left has often been guilty of, ie mistaking the means for an end in itself.

Does being compassionate improve our lives in some way? (I would argue it does, or at least can) Then fine, let's talk about how that works. I support the idea of equal opportunties not because of the principle, but because I think more open societies, drawing from as wide a talent pool as possible, ar more likely to be more materially successful. And perhaps less unhappy.

This is germane to the article above, because Morys says ordinary party members don't expect much for their subs. This suggests they see the sub as a kind of sacrifice to a cause. But in the days when Labour was a mass movement, most working class people DID expect material reward in the end - better housing, healthcare and so on.

One last thing - I thought it was a bit strange that Morys avoided mention of the U-word in relation to Labour funding,, but perhaps I'm old fashioned.
B Bendle @ 26 weeks and 4 days ago
Sunday's article in the IoS was about the Conservative party... hence my opening paragraph.
Morys Ireland @ 26 weeks and 4 days ago
Why have people left the parties, because of the destruction of UK plc,the poisoning of politics by some [name no names ] or my comments wont be printed,lies, spin and more lies, wars more wars , no eu referendum,political correctness, health and safety [which is destroying parts of our culture,] certain parts of the human rights act, [supports the criminal rather than the victim.] lawless streets, ballooning welfare state, dumbed down education, poor support for our troops, smear tactics,[which is playground stuff],MPS on the fiddle,which wasnt stopped by the speaker,in fighting ,and hatties spouting off , boring.no control over immigration and an indecisive leader,im depressed now.
martin lewis @ 26 weeks and 4 days ago
He is very popular amongst some - but not with me because He's a EUphile - and very patronising, he poh pohs opposing opinions instead of addressing them and describes things as 'silly' far too frequently. I think Alan Duncan tries to emulate him - I think thats what Ken is like underneath it all...

But them I am probably in a minority thinking 'Compassionate conservatism' is complete nonsense - it is not for a party to be compassionate or otherwise it is for individuals to be compassionate (or otherwise).

Same as my criticism of labour taking 'credit' for increased spending... whose bl*ddy money is it that they are spending? If they think there is some glory to be had, then it goes to the private sector taxpayers who generated the wealth to pay for that spending...
tory 'killed for telling the uncomfortable truth' troll @ 26 weeks and 4 days ago
Hold your horses, you dislike Ken Clarke? I thought all Conservatives thought the sun shines out of his backside! Why do you dislike him TT?
Bill Dewison @ 26 weeks and 4 days ago
People have become disinterested in politics:bored by the cynical marketing antics of New Labour and of New Tories. No suprise really, people can see through the thin veneer even though the politicians think they can't.

Politics used to be different but until we get rid of New Labour and get back to basics, people will not be able to see what we stand for. I sometimes wonder.
Jon Feltham @ 26 weeks and 4 days ago
Thats funny - I'd have thought labour minded people would rather be talking about the collapse of the labour membership, rather than noting a drop on tory membership.

Unless they are already 100% certain that there is *nothing* they can do about the collapse of labour...

I joined the tories when labour brought in IR35 (b*stards) left when howard said ID cards were a good idea (b*stard) joined again when blair broke his promise to serve a full term (b*stard) and handed the reins to brown (b*stard) and left again when cameron gave ken clarke a shadow cabinet post (b*stard) (plus a few other bits - eu treaty vacillation, IDS nonsense, spelman etc) now NHS and foreign aid ring fenced, so staying out.

But I'd happily pay £25 to get rid of Clarke, shut up IDS, put the EU in its place, commitment to small government and low tax...
tory 'killed for telling the uncomfortable truth' troll @ 26 weeks and 4 days ago
I think its a fine article and addressing a very important point for the future of British politics.

Saying that there is a simple answer to the question "what is it about the main political parties today that has caused so many of their members to leave, and so few new members to join?"

Lies, corruption and the greed of politicians.
Bill Dewison @ 26 weeks and 4 days ago
The focus of the article is a bit off.

There is one popular movement that is dying in terms of membership - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/2475301/Labour-membership-falls-to-historic-low.html

... and that will very soon be killed at the ballot box.
Daniel . @ 26 weeks and 4 days ago