The Daily Politics debate

Yes, D.D. did lie about his qualifications. He claimed he achieved this at Berkeley, U.S. He didn't. Just goes to show he is a true labourite. He is qualified in telling 'untruths' at least!

On reflection, I think the last thing Labour needed was a forum where people can record and share their opinion of the party that cannot be immediately spun, obfuscated and buried.

The little dog is pulling back the sparkly curtain and what lies behind? It is depressing to see how utterly banal the destroyers are.

Try and find D Draper's appearance at a dinner party, sneering down to an 'old' Labour MP, filmed for a series 'Living With the Enemy' years ago - about '98 I think. I've actually never forgotten it. Everything you need to see and know about this guy is there. Poison. Don't forget, though, he's not an official Labour voice - just a spoilt hustler with one or two inside contacts that (jesus knows why) give him a platform in this way. I bet he's as loathed by the Labour press office as he is on the feedback here.

Good stuff!

I'm quite amused by the introduction to the 'debate' when LabourList is referred to as competition for Guido Fawkes' blog. Amused because the comments section on Guido's site contain hundreds of comments (the vast majority supportive), and LabourList comments can't even reach 50 (with the vast majority of comments negative). LabourList is hardly in the same league.

I am loath to call this a debate. You mouthed your pre-prepared speech, and had to be forced to allow Guido to speak. Within 30 seconds, you told a lie, only to be forced to contradict yourself immediately after. "we publish every year" followed by "we haven't published yet" By definition, if you haven't published yet, how can you possibly claim to publish every year?
You came across as rude and arrogant and acted like a petulant child. Referring to Daniel Hannan as a 'Tory boy' and 'whatever his name is" was a pathetic attempt to minimise the impact of his speech. The reason for the 1 million plus views of that speech, is it's resonance with the public. People all over Britain are emailing each other the link. Why? Because they agree with what the man had to say, and enjoyed the spectacle of Brown getting the dressing down he richly deserves.

Your last comment promised a 'line by line' rebuttal of Daniel Hannan's speech. I don't know if you've noticed, but the article you referred to, spectacularly fails to live up to that promise. Every comment (bar one) HAS noticed the article's complete failure to refute Daniel Hannan's speech.

I'm not a die-hard Tory supporter by the way. In fact, I voted for Labour in it's first two terms (the firsts two times I was able to vote). One of the reasons I voted for New Labour was disgust at Tory sleaze. Not only have New Labour fallen short on their promise to be 'whiter than white', they have undeniably surpassed Tories. Labour MPs have consistently refused to resign when confronted by their own sleaze (At least when caught, Tory MPs had the decency to resign). At the last election, Blair made a promise to serve a full term. Only to step down a short time after, handing the premiership to Gordon Brown. When Maggie was ousted, the Tories at least elected Major as her replacement. Labour didn't even put on a show of democracy when handing the crown over to GB. Our current PM is incapable of actually answering questions at PMQ, and this government has raised the art of fudged statistics to an art-form. As a country we have suffered for Brown's mismanagement of the economy, and are angry at the erosion of civil liberties. These are the reasons for New Labour's dwindling support. These are the reasons Daniel Hannan's speech has over 1 million views on youtube.

The Labour faithful are exactly that. Faithful. They'll vote for Labour, no matter what. The Tory faithful are the same. I'm what you would call a floating voter. I don't have blind allegiance to any party. If New Labour have any hope of remaining in office, they have to address the concerns of the floating voters. We're the ones that hand over the keys to Downing Street. Please bear in mind that we won't be fooled by spin. We've grown accustomed to its use over the past 12 years. We can see through it now. We also won't be blinded by mud slinging. Labour must admit their mistakes, remove incompetent ministers, and show some respect for the people that pay the bills in this country. Only then can they even hope to avoid complete annihilation at the next election. As things stand today, my vote will go to the Tories. What Labour does over the next 12 months will determine whether that opinion changes.

Yes, he interrupts far too much, and comes across as very rude.

The proverbial is about to hit the fan.

We'll see who gets covered in it...

http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2009/03/email-to-damian-mcbride.html#links

That's Derek Draper?

I saw that guy the other day at Belsize Park asking for change!

I naturally assumed he was a tramp.

Not much to be proud of there, Derek. You came across all chippy and defensive. "Who's pulling your strings?" that's such a dumb question. It costs practically nothing to set up a website and if you have high traffic and advertisers (as he does) then it makes money.

I wonder how much Dolly pays LabourList for all the adverts and links for his personal business interests (books, counseling etc)?

I'll do Draper's scintillating and biting refutation for you:

1) Hannan's a TORY!!1!

2) He was in favour of 'light touch' regulation, don't forget to be polite and don't mention that Gordon Bean said exactly the same thing.

3) He's a TORY!!1!

4) He likes Iceland, the bounder!

5) Did I mention he's a TORY!!1!

6) A small aside about what a great bloke Derek Draper is and how modest he is. Possibly also a weak and feeble dig at Seaman Staines.

7) TORY!!1!

Draper (regarding finances): "We publish every year"
Guido: Where are they published?"
Draper: "We haven't published any, yet" (like the rebuttal, line-by-line of Hannan's speech?)

What a plonker

How come Al Ja-Beeb listed Draper as "MP"?

Derek,

You're rapidly turning into an internet pastiche of Brown. You don't listen to anyone, offer no response to accusations levelled at you and seem to be so genuinely disillusioned that you view yesterday's 'performances' as something worthy of re-print.

The only 'traffic' you have succeeded in bringing to this site is negative and temporary. If you see this as a victory it is one of the most shallow and hollow, however that is endemic of the current Labour party.

I have been sat dwelling on both of your appearances yesterday and find it utterly flabbergasting that you can watch them back without being totally disgusted by yourself as a human. Not just with what you say, but the manner in which you say (/finger-jab) it, the appearance with which you 'grace' such outings (showing an obvious contempt for both the setting and the electorate) and every single other aspect you could possibly think of. Have a word with yourself, seriously, I'm not one to offer life advice but on this occasion I feel it necessary, take a long look in the mirror, as if you carry on in such a repulsive and odious manner then things will go down a very bad road for you.

As a psychiatrist I hope you listen. I fear you won't.

Pete

I suspect it doesn't exist......

Derek is probably cobbling something together as we speak. It takes a lot of time and effort to try and pull something together when you only have these arguments to play with:

- Tory boy

- Do nothing Tories

As I was saying earlier:

www.englandism.co.uk/images/dolly.jpg

Can someone please point me to the line-by-line refutation of Hannan's much lauded speech that Draper said was on this blog?

It's obvious to me that Nu Labour are loosing the political war on the internet, that our un-elected Prime Minister - who hasn't even faced a poll of his own MPs to lead our country - is relying on sites such as this to get his message home, is finished. This wouldn't be a problem if the damage being inflicted on our society by Nu Labour, the ruination of families and business across our nation, was a temporary aberration or an "adjustment" in the economic cycle. But the debt now being sold to borrow money in the cause of "action" will haunt the next generations of hard working people for years to come. Remember, the merits of vast sums been sprayed on bailing out sub-prime finance companies hasn't even been debated in Parliament yet alone opened the channels of credit. Voters have become victims of control freakery and muddle, of strangled statistics and targets, and a something/anything must be done mentality.

Please, Please, Prime Minister let the people of Britain have their say now and call a General Election.

Cllr Sean Lever.

Comic genius!

Wow. What a rude, irritating performance from Derek Draper. This is my first exposure to this UK scene and I have to say that Mr Draper comes across as a complete buffoon. I consider myself left-of-centre politically but his labour bully persona is a real embarrasment. Stay behind the scenes is my advice, people like him is why labour spent years in the wilderness.

Today I watched our Del, man of the people on the Daily Politics and Channel 4 News. In both cases he represented the essence of New Labour completely and accurately.

What most people interpret as arrogance is nothing more than the show and bluff of the outwitted and less intelligent.

By the way, is it true that you have lied about what qualifications you have? Wouldn't surprise me as the labour lot seems to attract liars.

That was the most entertaining bit of the spat.

All in all, after all the build-up, it was a bit of a damp squib: two scruffy, unhealthy looking blokes squabbling.

At least one of the blokes gives it to the politicos. The other one is bent over at all times ready to receive his masters' voices.

Never in my life have I seen such a pathetic excuse for humanity than Derek. He has neither the wit to argue the case, nor the manners to allow audience to someone who can. An utterly shameful display, anyone who uses his hands to such an extent is obviously seriously on the back foot. It he was a horse, he would be shot for being so lame.

I think Guido's attack on this site's independence was only a little more convincing than your "who pulls the strings" question to him, but it does point to a valid criticism: you do publish some appalling sub-Mirror, slavish propaganda (like that Alan Sugar post). The fact that you're doing it out of your own free will and not being forced to by the party doesn't make it any better. It's like you saw that endorsement on Iain Dale's,'Tory but not slavishly so', and thought it was a criticism. Some of the other posts are interesting and worth reading, though.
I was also amused by your argument - which you actually seem to believe - that you're going to give this site a wider reach than existing blogs by not only restricting yourselves to catering for the minority with an over-developed interest in politics (which is hardly avoidable) but by focusing on the far, far smaller number of people who are actually active Labour party campaigners. And if you are doing that, what's the point? Aren't they going to vote Labour anyway?

I wonder if when Derek is being a "psychotherapist" dishing out the CBT if the poor patient ever manages to get a word in edgeways?

I thought the idea of such people was to LISTEN

So where is this briefing Guido said he'd post on his site 'this afternoon'?

I thought it was relatively interesting though I thought Derek kept getting interrupted when trying to answer a question by Andrew Neil, telling him to answer the question - all a bit messy.

The main thing I'd disagree with is that I'm not sure what evidence there is to suggest Guido is anyone's puppet? Blogs cost nowt lad!

"Derek 1, Guido Fawkes 0."

odd this post carries no name of the poster.....

However, Derek was trying to monopolise the conversation, such as it was, and was talking over the other interviewee which is why Andrew Neil had to tell him to keep quiet. At least Guido seems to hjold politicians of both main parties in equal contempt: on here we have writer after writer trying to pretend theyu are better than the Tories when, in realkity, there is not much to choose between them

In a day when a Tory councillor has chosen to join "New Labour", it proves once again how Tory-like Labour has become (as if we didn't know that already with Woodward and Davies) that they do so with alacrity

I watched the whole program and Derek was this arrogant all the way through talking over people not really listening to what others were saying. He reminded me of the Socialist Workers at Uni when they were loosing their argument.

"I think the blogosphere is a small little place full of obsessives like Paul…"

"And you."

"Er, well no, what we're trying to do with Labour List is reach out… (etc)"

Hilarious. I have just seen the definition of the phrase 'po-faced'. Not so much a sense of humour failure as a total self-awareness failure. Dave Spart lives! Still laughing (all the way to the trash, no doubt). Bye!

Derek, Guido DID have one serious point. If Labour list is independent, why do you print that facile, self serving crap from the likes of Purnell, Mandy, McFadden and the sons of Straw and Prescott?. Is it a case you feel obliged so tio do?

Take that supercilious rubbish from Purnell wherein he vowed to nmake "the sick well". Or some such phrase. Is he the new Messiah - will the sick and disabled have to touch the hem of his garment? Will the Thames at Westminster become the new Lourdes, but that was printed without any editorial comment whatsoever.

The pair of you looked like a dreadful government warning about what happens when one spends too long in front of a VDU, both looking overweight and unfit. You really should get out more.......

Did red tomatoes or green peppers win?

I had heard so much about this Guido Fawkes character that I half expected Derek to be blown out of the water. However, in reality he was a toothless, fat bloke who seemed fond of telling teacher about what the other kids were up to.

Derek 1, Guido Fawkes 0.

Derek, I honestly can't believe that you are proud of your performance. I would have crawled under a stone. What makes you think that people who read this will have any respect for you.
Still you're the analyst!!

My god am I fed up of party bickering. three shops have closed on my highstreet in the last fortnight, on friday i saw a knife pulled at a bar, today i paid £6.30 for a packed of cigarettes. Hannan may be a good ol' tory boy but damn it he's right the ship of state is not seaworthy, not even close. wouldn't it be nice to see some leadership from those in the commons. wouldn't it be nice if our prime minister had the resolve to say sorry and then move on. wouldn't it be nice if the tories and libdems came foward and activly tried to help. nice ... what a lame word. But, still, it would be nice.

It was two boys scrapping in the playground.

A complete waste of time.

Are the specs for real Derek or are they just to give us that "intellectual" look, or perhaps de rigeur dfor "psycotherapists" - sort of Germanic "lay on ze couch gaze into ze eyes"

Seriously though the show - good was NOT the word. I can honestly say I have never seen anything like it in my life

http://www.joepasquale.com/

Can I say that this Labourlist is a remarkable piece of viral thingy, Joe. Nice work.

Daniel Hannan referred to the Labour govt as a wee bit ship-like-holed-below-the-water-line. Is this what Labour Listing is?

Ta & kisses

Englandism

Didn't Derek's Mum teach him any manners?