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The fierce ideological battle around the budget - and why it must be won by Labour

Scissors Cut Suts

By Ann Pettifor

There is a ferocious battle being played out around how we should interpret and understand the financial crisis and its consequences. And I am not talking about the crude and quite hysterical response to the budget in the Conservative press today. That we can safely ignore. No, it’s more than that. It’s about key economic issues, and it’s vital that we all grasp them, and fight the good fight on behalf of those who will be victims of orthodox economic ideology.

The orthodox storyline goes like this: the most momentous crisis facing the world is government debt – not economic failure and collapse; not the collapse of private investment; not financial instability, or deflation, or currency volatility or the threat of a dangerous rise in protectionism and a new global trade war. And certainly not the rise in unemployment. No, the biggest threat facing civilisation is the rise in government debt.

Why? Because the rise in government debt ‘crowds out’ private debt. In other words, creditors (bankers and other lenders) can’t sell credit/loans at high prices (or rates of interest) if governments are in the markets selling or offering debt at lower rates of interest. So government debt must be cut! The public sector must be shrunk!

Today’s Financial Times spells out very clearly these lines of debate – and where the FT and its supporters in the Tory Party and City of London stand. Martin Wolf, a highly respected FT commentator, writes:

"Since the economy is substantially smaller than expected, the size of the state has to follow. The question is how and when.”

That’s it. No questions asked. The logic, it appears, is unassailable. The size of the state has to shrink.

Precisely the same logic was applied during the 1929 crash. The consequences then were deflation, economic failure, currency volatility, the rise of protectionism and trade wars, and of course a massive rise in unemployment.

It was only when President Roosevelt took the reins after 4 years of such economic logic – in 1933 – that the US economy turned around. And it was only when J. M. Keynes took the reins at the Bank of England and the Treasury – also in 1933 – that the UK economy started to turn around, and government debt started to fall.

I point you once again to my favoured chart. It’s one that should be pasted on the wall of every single Labour Party candidate’s election HQ.

Chart

Keynes (and Roosevelt) had proposed a different logic. To paraphrase:

“Since the economy is substantially smaller than expected, government must take action to re-boot the economy, and to stimulate economic activity – in both the public and private spheres. By re-booting the economy, government can expect to generate revenues – to pay for the re-booting.”

Of course they had never heard of the term re-booting, but that pretty much is what they argued, and what they went on to do. And it worked. Look at the chart and see what happens to government debt between 1933 and the start of the war in 1939. It falls, quite precipitously. That’s because economic activity generates tax revenues. Government spending pays for itself. Yesterday, the Chancellor was right to boast about the £11 billion fall in government borrowing: it was the direct result of the mini fiscal stimulus of last year. The improvement has come from tax receipts and the stimulus measures adopted, including the cut in VAT.

Regrettably it has not come from employment taxes. This demonstrates, nevertheless, that taxes are key to correcting the deficit, and that stimulus works in reducing the deficit. The remainder of the £11bn improvement has come from lower-than-anticipated gilt yields. In other words, the government paid less for its debt on the international markets than many – including FT writers – had predicted.

So much for: "cuts are needed to reassure financial markets and persuade them to lend to the government at lower rates of interest". With those numbers Darling has seen off the deficit hawks in the Tory Party, the Institute of Fiscal Studies, the City and the BBC. He has been proved right: a little fiscal stimulus staved off even higher unemployment and bankruptcies – and helped stabilise the economy.

Today John Authers of the Financial Times interprets this fall in borrowing in this way:

“the government’s borrowing needs are somewhat lower than had been expected by the market (at £163 bn against expectations of about £185 bn) thanks to spending cuts."

This is contradictory: on the one hand the FT complains that spending cuts are inadequate, on the other it argues that the fall in government borrowing is precisely due to spending cuts. Spending cuts vs stimulus.

The FT and the Tories are winning this argument, and the consequences for the Labour movement are dire. Because private sector investment continues to fall; because £46 billion was taken out of the economy last year; and because government is being brow-beaten into contributing to further falls in economic activity (by cutting spending) we can look forward to: rising unemployment, falling wages, rocketing bankruptcies and deflation (which increases the cost of debt). The numbers of those in full-time employment will continue to fall, and so will real wages.

This will lead to a loss of confidence in democratic institutions, to votes for those that promise to deal with the crisis by authoritarian means, and to social unrest. Regrettably, instead of using the better borrowing numbers as proof, and as a springboard for an even greater stimulus, the Chancellor yesterday began the process of fiercely turning down the public spending screw.

So, there is a great deal at stake in this ideological debate. Labour Party members must get stuck in.

Mar 25, 2010 at 09:02pm


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Dear Ann

I have a LOT of admiration for your passion, commitment and experience and would welcome your comment on my 10-year analysis of the UK's budget, and especially how the crisis reveals its real purpose. See http://bit.ly/aYhEnT

I fear it's beyond the Labour / Tory division, but I still would love to see you as MP!

Sabine
Organiser, Forum for Stable Currencies
http://forumforstablecurrencies.info
http://publicdebts.org.uk
Sabine K McNeill @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
Hi Peter- I agree, Ludwig appears an independent thinker, and doesn't take himself too seriously. To me he's like gold dust on LL!(Sorry Ludwig- but you have been an incredible contributor on here...long may that continue.)

Wishing you both a lovely weekend.

Jo.
Hazico 28 @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
Craig, on a general level, Ludwig is simply providing a robust and humourous defence to the 99% oppositional and detracting comments on LL.

Sometimes it gets exhausting, and tempers fray!

He is one of the few genuine Labour voices on a Labour campaigning site.That seems fair enough to me.

Otherwise we might just as well roll over and call it "Con Home."
Hazico 28 @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
@ Jo

Actually Ludwig may well vote Green - so it's odd that a genuine non tribalist centre left voice, one who displays wit, intelligence, and a regular reference to facts, gets called a 'tribalist'.

Pure psychological projection.
Peter Jukes @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
Is this piece meant to be taken seriously?

"Government spending pays for itself. Yesterday, the Chancellor was right to boast about the £11 billion fall in government borrowing: it was the direct result of the mini fiscal stimulus of last year. The improvement has come from tax receipts and the stimulus measures adopted, including the cut in VAT."

A "fall" in projected borrowing from £178 billion to £169 billion is still a massive increase in borrowing, just a slightly lower increase than forecast. If the Chancellor was boasting about that then he is an idiot.

Keynes advocated repaying debt in good years so what did the great Gordo do in the good years before the recession? Act like a good Keynesian and repay debt? Or spend more than he got in year after year after year?

Yes, you guessed right - he ran up debts, creating a boom fueled by ever-increasing and unsustainable government spending (financed by borrowing) and a property boom (itself fueled by low interest rates because monetary policy was fixed by the Bank of England by reference to a measure of inflation which ignored property prices: a measure chosen by the clown of clowns).

So now (i) we were hit badly (contrary to fatuous suggestions that we were best placed to weather the storm) and (ii) we are the last of the major economies out of recession(and the recovery is weak and uncertain) again contrary to the nonsense spouted from No 10.

Mark Cannon @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
"He has been proved right: a little fiscal stimulus staved off even higher unemployment and bankruptcies – and helped stabilise the economy."

If it's now proven, can we see the data from the control group, please?
MonkeyBot 5000 @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
It's a bit of a silly claim, really. There was a prediction about the prospective level of unemployment. It has turned out to be wrong, with a lower level. It was simply modelling. The only comparator is unemployment in other comparable countries, but I'm not sure how far that holds. The statement should simply be that unemployment was predicted to be higher, but it has not been as high; some of our policies may have assisted there, but there were other influences too which helped to maintain employment levels. In the event, we did not cause massive unemployment, which is a blessing.
Ludwig Wittgenstein @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
During the boom Labour was all about 'spending the proceeds of growth' and pushing public sector expansion as far as their wildly optimistic growth forecasts would allow.

Now that we have a recession which is severely exacerbated by that anti-keynesian fiscal indiscipline we get economic illiterates lecturing us on the importance of counter-cyclical spending.

Presumably if Labour get elected again and the economy eventually splutters into life then Keynesian principles will go out the window and we'll be back to massive public sector expansion plans during the upward part of the cycle (before switching gear to massive public sector expansion during the following recession).

As with the 'golden rule' principles are an easy thing to stick to in the times when they mandate policies which you want to implement anyway. As soon as you get to the point at which your ruleset requires painful readjustment you throw them out the window and put in a new rulebook which you justify according to another equally high-minded principle.

Bernard L @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
Ann,

Your analysis of the thirties is deeply flawed.

You seem ignorant of the fact that the US had a double-dip recession in the late 30s, for example.

You ignore monetary policy, which is a fundamental error. The UK came off the gold standard and grew quickly. Mismanagement of the US money supply, in contrast, kept them in recession or low growth until war kicked in. People have won Nobel prizes demonstrating this - and I listen to them before I listen to you.

You also seem unaware of "opportunity cost". Think about it. You could give £10bn to be spent by a Cabinet of left-wing politicos who have never really worked in the commercial sector or led a large-scale project, and who are in hock to left-wing unions who demand that their feather-bedding continues - or you could give the money to the creative comercial sector to invest and employ and pay tax.

Labour is going down the former route, taxing private companies such as Sainsbury and BAE and BUPA - a tax on jobs in a recession! - and spending the money on smoking cessation officers and 5-a-day co-ordinators and unreformed public services and benefit defined pensions for the public sector.

The sad reality is that Labour has tested the democratic socialist model to destruction and our grandchildren will pay the heavy price.

PS
Keynes didn't publish his General Theory until 1936: rendering the idea that "Keynsianism" saved the UK and US in the 30s a trifle surprising.
Labour Critic @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
Friedman won the Nobel Prize in 1976 - at the time when monetarist policy was receiving its greatest attention. Bernanke is in a sort of line from Friedman, but has take a different approach to this recession.

'Opportunity cost'? Well, what about an alternative cost-benefit analysis: Sainsbury sucks in imports which consumers buy, affecting the balance of payments - induced expenditure; the prices are designed so that immense bonuses can be paid to thousands of managers in the upper tiers - with our money which is collected from us. BUPA - taxing that is just another re-distributive tax. BUPA produces nothing. Instead, government directs tax from these two (and corporation tax here is relatively low by international comparisons) to new industries such as energy security and green investment.

Personally, I advocate shopping at the Co-op, using your divi card, and giving the pence element to charity.
Ludwig Wittgenstein @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
IMHO, the dividing line is along industrial policy. Labour: proposes 'industrial activism': to compete with the BRIC countries, it's necessary to 'pick winners' in the sense of giving specific support to new industries that can compete against 'state capitalism'. Tories: they have a generalized policy to create a general climate for business. So we have a new policy v. a very old (redundant) policy. The Tory policy might have worked for UK PLC in the past, but is unlikely to work now. OTOH, both Tory and Labour picked the wrong winner in financial services in the past. It now needs smart decisions about which industries to support, not least in the sector for energy security.
Ludwig Wittgenstein @ 23 weeks ago
Ann;

I don't think you understand the crowding out effect of govt debt. Banks/creditors do not go and sell to debtors. Borrowers come to them looking for finance.

As sovereign debt increases, two things happen. Firstly, yields tend to rise and spreads also tend to rise. This makes it harder for borrowers to get attractive rates, and it also means that many investors (specifically pension funds) who are looking for a particular return don't need to go for risky corp bonds when safer govvies can give them the yield they need.

The other effect is caused as simply, there is only so much money out there to be invested. When fund balance sheets get overloaded they are simply incapable of adding more credit to their sheets, wether they like it or not.

What do you think will happen though, if spending does continue unabated, and we get to a Greece situation where investors are not willing to fund such a deficit? What happens then, when we effectively run out of money? Print more? Do you think that growth is going to be so high that it will somehow outpace the growing debt mountain? If you do, I'm afraid you are in some fantasy land.


Daniel Lanyi @ 23 weeks ago
Long-term private investment is fine, but there is too much short-termism which leverages out deals and then leaves the company with immense debt - Kraft is overloaded with debt as a result of the takeover of Cadbury. That's another reason why the last sale of Greek government bonds ignored the brokers and Goldman Sachs and went directly to the longer-term investors. Financial 'services' are being undermined by short-termism. OTOH, how many recent rights issues have failed? OTOH, SMEs need the capital and cannot go to the market, so something like an investment bank is needed, at arms length from the government.
Ludwig Wittgenstein @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
Um....the last sale of Greek bonds had to be placed with investors by the banks, who charged a fee for it. This only happens when people are worried the auction amongst banks is otherwise gong to fail.

It's a BAD sign not a good one.

And, as I say above, its harder for small businesses to get financing at the moment, predominantly due to crowding out (which Ann seems to think doesn't exist).

Daniel Lanyi @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
Greek bond sale

So what do you make of that, Daniel Lanyi?
Ludwig Wittgenstein @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
I think you are wrong on both counts, Daniel Lanyi. The Greeks went directly to the insurance companies (yes, the insurance companies) not the banks and they specifically excluded Goldman Sachs. I believe that you are also wrong about the SMEs. The SMEs simply don't go to the same market.
Ludwig Wittgenstein @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
Chris- just hold your own counsel. Economists disagree amongst themselves, but you have convinced most of us on LL I'm sure.

Respect!

Jo.
Hazico 28 @ 23 weeks ago
@ Jo

Cheers!

But I fear things will get worse before the light dawns as to the reality of the system.
Chris Cook @ 23 weeks ago
one thing is for certain and just on QT we saw Liam Byrne nod when someone said that Trident should be stopped

no way can any party now convince the country we should spend scare money on that
ian robathan @ 23 weeks ago
Oh, here's another fun one for you Ann:

You claim that the government stimulus helped save, or reduce the budget deficit by £11bn. This may be partly true....

...except the stimulus was worth about £15bn.

So by your own logic, more spending will actually sink us even deeper into debt.
Daniel Lanyi @ 23 weeks ago
@ Daniel Lanyi

So by your own logic, more spending will actually sink us even deeper into debt.

Possibly by her logic, but spending on creating productive assets funded by QE wouldn't, because it's not debt.
Chris Cook @ 23 weeks ago
Chris, I don't really want to go into *another* long debate about QE. I know you think it can be used almost indefinately to invest.

I am pretty certain that QE used for direct investment would cause a massive distortion in the private sector (as the government would be able to outcompete private investment -printing cash, lower rates and legislative power) as well as causing inflation, devaluation of the currency and long term debt problems. Its a short term patch, not a long term solution, and I strongly believe that long term use would cause severe harm to the economy. The country is addicted enough to the state's teat - QE would only make it worse.

QE is definately debt though - albeit future debt. You still either have to remove the QE amount borrowed at the end of the period, or roll it over by issuing more debt.

Definately definately definately debt.
Daniel Lanyi @ 23 weeks ago
FFS It's definitely.
Ludwig Wittgenstein @ 23 weeks ago
FFS are you serious? Having a go because i didn't turn my spellchecker on? Are you so mindlessly petty?
Daniel Lanyi @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
If you need a spell-checker to spell definitely, then I am afraid that you are functionally illiterate.
Ludwig Wittgenstein @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
Its called a typographical error.

Lets face it though, resorting to name-calling is pretty pathetic.

Is that really the best you can do?
Daniel Lanyi @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
Is that really the best you can do?

Is that an attempt to tamp down the personal conflict, or an invitation to a flame fest?

To be precise, a typographical error is the fault of a typesetter. When you repeat a spelling error three times, you're asking for a friendly correction.

I prefer to call them misprunts: we all make them.
Peter Jukes @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
Yes I'm afraid he is. As I've remarked before he will only criticise the spelling and grammar of people he does not agree with. Even Alex has mentioned it, but still he persists.
Craig R @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
My comments are directed at the Tory contributors here simply because they constantly complain about the decline in educational standards, which in the cases of some of them is the height of hypocrisy since they exhibit their own deficiencies on a daily basis. That is my point.
Ludwig Wittgenstein @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
And a perfectly put point it is too: odd that there's more interesting and varied New Labour critique from the centre left, rather than the tribalist 'authoritarian shirty Brown' brigade.

No nuance, no depth, and the same old talking points again and again.
Peter Jukes @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
@ LW

No I think that you just take perverse pleasure in pointing out peoples mistakes. Perhaps you need an ego boost every now and again.

I thought behaviour like this ended when Draper and eventually Charles Hardwidge left this site. Even the editor has mentioned it but for some reason you still think its big and clever.
Craig R @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
@ Craig R

You're just cruising for bruising with a comment like that: no political content at all.

Of course I'm sure you'd like to deter Ludwig from this site because he's smart, funny, and generally sources his comments with links, graphs and facts.

The last two comments you've made Craig have been completely ad personam:completely transparent attempts at a wind up.

It's a credit to Ludwig that you're trying to discourage him this way: he's a threat to you.

Now, back to the subject...
Peter Jukes @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
Ludwig may be a threat to a bowl of lentil soup, but he isn't a threat to anyone else's argument.

Making petty, snide remarks about spelling and grammar do not count as a contribution in my book.
Daniel Lanyi @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
Hi Labourlist

as the worst speller on here (i think) , whe people attack the spelling instead of the point from what ever side it shows a lack of respect , I hope this site NEVER goes back to the dark days where people faered posting for being mocked .

Danny
ricki lake @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
@ Ricki

Good point: but my spelling's quite good just because it's my trade. I still get regularly mocked though.

Have a great day.
Peter Jukes @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
Hi peter

I thought Alex has done a good job turning this site around where we have debate on the policys more than personalties , I just hope it never goes back to how it was , and i hope people will debate the policys and not mock people for typos .

Have a good day yourself

Danny
ricki lake @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
@ Danny
You write a great deal more sense than the spelling/grammar nitpickers, so don't worry. Publically pointing out other people's alleged spelling or grammatical mistakes is some people's way of asserting their superiority. It achieves the opposite.
Bill Lockhart @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
Hi Bill

"You write a great deal more sense than the spelling/grammar nitpickers, so don't worry. "

not so sure about this but thanks :)

Danny
ricki lake @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
Trust me, Danny, it's true. Commons sense is not the same as swallowing a dictionary- and I enjoy the odd long word myself.
Bill Lockhart @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
Did you know Iain Dale predicted that in the election campaign, one of the big blogs would turn their comments off entirely...?

Just sayin'...
Alex Smith @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
@Alex

I guess that means the subject is closed now, but you could of just said STFU. Maybe you prefer the Mandelson approach to threats, not the "clunking fist" :~)
Craig R @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
@ Daniel

You are under a misapprehension.

I am not proposing that QE be used only for public sector investment in productive assets. It should be the source of all the credit necessary for the circulation of goods and services and the creation of all productive assets, whether public or private.

It should be available for investment in private sector productive assets as well. There is no question of 'out-competition' then, is there?

The result of a supply of public credit under professional management and the oversight of a Monetary Authority is simply the dis-intermediation of banks as credit intermediaries, and a transition to service provision.

This approach is actually in the interests of banks - who are pretty much insolvent, but allowed to window dress their accounts by 'mark to fantasy' and 'extend and pretend' - since their capital requirement is reduced to that necessary to cover operating costs.

As for QE, don't take my word for it, read Henry Liu - IMHO the best alive on the issue.

In particular....

Monetary economists view government-issued money as a sovereign debt instrument with zero maturity, historically derived from the bill of exchange in free banking.

This view is valid only for specie money, which is a debt certificate that can claim on demand a prescribed amount of gold or other specie of intrinsic value. But fiat money issued by a sovereign government is not a sovereign debt but a sovereign credit instrument.


In my analysis, QE has more in common with a redeemable share than it does with debt, and it would be used only to create new assets, which would be refinanced with pension investment once complete, and the QE retired and recycled.

We are, as Liu goes on to say, labouring under a cosmic misunderstanding, and a paradigm shift in thinking is needed...

If fiat money is not sovereign debt, then the entire conceptual structure of finance capitalism is subject to reordering, just as physics was subject to reordering when man's worldview changed with the realization that the earth is not stationary nor is it the center of the universe.
Chris Cook @ 23 weeks ago
I was talking particularly about QE invested in public or private projects which would directly compete against pure private financed projects. There would be a severe distortion. Not to mention scope for corruption and waste on a massive scale. You can't just hope to print money and not distort whatever market you enter.

This is how QE works, in simple stages:

1. BoE "prints" money and buys 10y Gilts from investors, injecting cash into financial system.
2. In 10y time, Gilts BoE holds mature. BoE is left long cash, DMO is left short cash (as they have to pay the BoE).
3. Either

BoE must now clear cash off the register (destroying it electronically), flattening their cash position

OR

DMO must issue more Gilts to cover its cash position, which the BoE then buys (thus rolling the position).

I hope the above makes it very clear that QE is "credit" only between two government arms. To the market as a whole, especially to investors in Gilts, it is debt, albeit as I have said before, future debt. It's the bond equivalent of a forward starting interest rate swap. I don't really know how many other ways i can say or show it.

Debt debt debt debt debt debt.
Daniel Lanyi @ 23 weeks ago
@Daniel Lanyi

You can't just hope to print money and not distort whatever market you enter.

And yet that is exactly what banks do and always have done since the Mississippi Bubble was funded by John Law's Banque Royale.

I rest my case.

You have just defined the problem with credit creation ex nihilo by credit intermediaries, whether Treasuries, central banks or private banks.

All credit - and whether it is created for use in the public or private sector is irrelevant - can and should be public credit, and the credit creation process should be managed professionally by banking service providers - no reason at all why these should not be private - with a stake in the outcome, and supervised professionally by a Monetary Authority.

You seem to be saying that it's somehow unfair and 'distorting' to deprive bank management of excessive or unearned income, and shareholders of dividends?

The problem is that because of systemic shortage of capital, private banks are currently not doing their job. If they are not prepared to put their capital at risk, then they will still have the choice of participating in the management of public credit creation and competing on cost and quality of service.

Re QE, as Henry Liu points out, credit and debt are mirror images. The models of almost the entire economics profession are based on the premise that it is debt which is being monetised. It is in fact credit that is being monetised, and this completely wrecks their assumptions.

Perhaps I might explain the difference this way.

Undated Debt is redeemable at the option of the provider of the finance, as anyone with a bank overdraft will know.

Undated Credit (quasi-equity) such as QE, or notes and coin - which are essentially anonymously held QE (akin to bearer shares) - are redeemable/retirable at the option of the user of the finance.

Can you not understand the qualitative difference?

So QE is NOT debt, but credit, and it is functionally diametrically opposite in effect: it is why Liu refers to a credit instrument, rather than a debt instrument, and the difference is analogous to that between matter (credit) and anti-matter (a bank claim over a borrower's credit).

We are talking about a paradigm shift in thinking here, Daniel, and that is never easy to grasp.

@ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
I'll do a proper fisk later, but Ann Pettifor might want to start by updating her chart - the one she uses is from 2008.

THe latest one has that little green line going up to near the 100% mark.
Daniel Lanyi @ 23 weeks ago
@ Daniel Lanyi

You stated elsewhere that the UK had experienced the deepest recession in the G8 (or maybe it was even the G20). So do you disagree with Darling's numbers?

'The impact has meant the UK economy has contracted by around 6 per cent over the course of the recession.

This compares to 8 per cent in Japan, 7 per cent in Germany and 4 per cent in America.'
Ludwig Wittgenstein @ 23 weeks ago
How 'near' is 'near'?
Ludwig Wittgenstein @ 23 weeks ago
"Government spending pays for itself"

Congratulations you have just invented the equivalent of a perpetual motion machine.

Perhaps for your next trick you can turn to alchemy and turn lead into gold?

The size of the public sector is now so big it swallows more than half of our GDP.

There is a clue in that statistic. Something is horribly wrong.

It is time for you to wake up - the "protecting the recovering" line is just Gordon and Ed's spin that covers the stupid "investment versus cuts" dividing line they are trying to fake and make us swallow.

....as we now know,however,Darling is being honest. Cuts more savage than Thatchers will be required. Well done Gordon - that is quite an achievement!

Billy Blofeld @ 23 weeks ago
@ Billy Blofeld

Something is horribly wrong.

Orwell would be proud of the Big Lie propagated by apologists like you for the 10% of the population who own most of the country's unencumbered wealth and to whom the other 90% are now indebted.

This Big Lie is the assumption that the Public Sector is 'unproductive' and the private sector is 'productive'. That is only true from the perspective of landlords and rentier shareholders to whom everybody else is a'cost' to be cut.

The truth of it is that from the perspective of entrepreneurs, suppliers, customers, patients, passengers, staff, and even management, it is the rents extracted by your privileged constituency's property rights which are the costs which need to be cut.

Savage cuts? That liquidationist insanity is the road to Depression and debt peonage.
Chris Cook @ 23 weeks ago
I'm not sure why my previous reply to Chris was censored.

So let's try again.

Just yesterday, Darling announced that Labour's planned cuts in public spending will be "deeper and tougher" than Margaret Thatcher's in the 1980s.

Why don't you want me drawing attention to this?

Or was it my comment about the fact everytime the electorate boots Labour from power the nation's finances in ruins?

Equally true, equally hard for you to take, so you censor it.

Mark Smith @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
And?

You are not going to untie the economics of land ownership over-night. More immediate action is required.

It is no co-incidence that the countries whose economies have been mismanaged, like the UK and Greece, are under pressure to now cut their bloated public sectors.

Alchemy is not the solution.

P.S. If the public sector is so productive, maybe it can do us all a favour and export its services to other countries.
Billy Blofeld @ 22 weeks and 6 days ago
Mike that is what the IFS has said, lets see the actual figures after the election because you are actually implying there is a chance Darling could be making those calls
ian robathan @ 23 weeks ago
The Chancellor has said that the next government will have to cut deeper than Thatcher ever did.

Are you going to post that in every Labour candidate's election HQ?

Or are they going to continue to peddle lies about Tory policies?

As for cuts, Labour have been less than honest. Labour investment v Tory cuts?

The IFS analysis tonight is completely damning, in Labour's own budget listed in the numbers there will have to be 25% cuts in government spending over the next four years

That is a complete reversal of all increases in government spending over the course of this Parliament.

Your words are dust.
a b @ 23 weeks ago
@ Mike Thomas

The IFS analysis tonight is completely damning, in Labour's own budget listed in the numbers there will have to be 25% cuts in government spending over the next four years

The IFS haven't got a clue, because their assumptions are diametrically wrong.

Ann Pettifor is pretty much right on fiscal stimulus, although I disagree with her line on taxes, which should be switched from earned income to unearned income. Fat chance of that.

Massive fiscal stimulus is necessary - not the monetary stimulus we have now which merely supports or inflates financial asset prices and bails out the rich.

The only cuts necessary - apart from Trident and ID cards - are to take the axe to public sector managerialism and the outrageous monopoly rents extracted by the financial services industry.

Alastair Darling needs to take a reality check. The last thing that is needed is cuts in investment and expenditure. He should switch his policies away from supporting the 10% who own the country to the 90% who are indebted to them.


Chris Cook @ 23 weeks ago
Chris,

The Institute of Fiscal Studies, the most respected independent economics analysis organisation in the UK?

Whatever you say Chris I think you are on your own here railing against them.
a b @ 23 weeks ago
@ Mike

If their assumption is that money is a debt instrument, then they are diametrically wrong.

It's that simple, and it makes any conclusions they draw completely worthless.
Chris Cook @ 23 weeks ago
Hurrah

We dont owe as much as we did at the end of World War 2.

This is a GREAT RESULT for Labour.

Labour MUST drive home the simple message -cuts "will be deeper and tougher" than under Thatcher.

HURRAH

john doe @ 23 weeks ago