Loading... Please wait...

Proposal #2: Votes at 16

Votes at 16By Wes Streeting / @wesstreeting

Imagine a country with a democratic deficit, where political elites are struggling to find ways of reversing a trend of declining voter turnout. Imagine that the same elites are simultaneously refusing to open the door to scores of citizens who are actually asking to vote. Sound crazy? Welcome to 21st century Britain.

Earlier this year, the government’s Youth Citizenship Commission, of which I was part, ran a consultation to find out what young people thought about lowering the voting age to 16. A representative survey found that a clear majority of young people supported extending the franchise. The work of the same commission found that a whopping 82% of young people don’t trust politicians to make the right decisions for them and 72% don’t feel that they can influence government decisions.

Who can blame them? How many times have Labour canvassers been out on the doorstep and asked a 14, 15 or 16 year old how the local council can meet their needs, instead of simply asking if Mum or Dad’s home? Even at grassroots level, the Labour Party sends a message to young people across Britain that we don’t care about them because they can’t vote.

This is self-defeating for our progressive politics, when the quality of public services, safer neighbourhoods and tackling poverty matters just as much to young people as any other section of the population. On issues like climate change, the failure of global leaders to act will have a greater impact on the current generation of young people than those charged with making decisions that could make the difference.

Lowering the voting age to 16 is not a tool for increasing the proportion of voters turning out, but it is a way of giving young people who want the vote – who pay taxes, join the armed forces, get married, drive cars – an opportunity to exercise some influence over the political system that currently lets too many young people down.

The Labour Party as a whole now agrees. Only last year, Olivia Bailey led a determined and successful effort to secure the support of the National Policy Forum for lowering the voting age to 16. She did so by mobilising young people inside and outside the Labour movement to support her campaign and gained the overwhelming support of NPF members. Olivia’s campaign – and speech to the National Policy Forum – was cited by Ed Miliband, the man charged with drafting the next manifesto, at Party conference last autumn. The same conference endorsed the NPF’s recommendation and lowering the voting age to 16 is now a Labour Party policy.

Whether or not the commitment will be included in the next manifesto remains to be seen. Much will depend on whether the Party’s policy making process counts for me as much as the opposition of figures in the Cabinet, like Jack Straw. For the Labour Party, however, the inclusion of votes at 16 in the next manifesto is a litmus test as to how seriously the leadership take the youth movement of the Party.

Ed Miliband: we’re watching you.

Posted on Sep 16, 2009 at 01:05pm


49 Comments · Show / Hide
Leave a comment »   show trash comments ·
This proposal -- "Votes for Children!" -- seems to me so self-evidently absurd that it's a waste of time spelling out the arguments against it. If this is really likely to be adopted as Labour Party policy in the manifesto for the next election, the general assumption will be that the Party is no longer taking politics seriously: or, alternatively, that it's a cynical grab for the children's vote on the basis that Labour no longer has any hope of winning an election with the votes of adults. It's hard to decide which would be the more damaging.

Wes says that for the Party, "the inclusion of votes at 16 in the next manifesto is a litmus test as to how seriously the leadership take the youth movement of the Party." Maybe. But for the electorate, it will be a test [why 'litmus'?] of how seriously the leadership takes British politics.

Brian Barder @ 45 weeks and 1 day ago
Young people often fight and rise against the perceived establishment; Labour is the current perceived establishment.

There are a couple of blanks there that you can fill in for yourselves.
Howard Walker @ 45 weeks and 2 days ago
I wont the vote. I am a good girl. I am rising 5.
Mike Stallard @ 45 weeks and 2 days ago
As the only people who care to really come out in numbers to vote are those aged over 50, lets raise it to 50.

It will make no difference... Labour are still going to lose.

But as there are fewer voters, we can be bribed with other peoples' money .. and more effectively.

madasa fish @ 45 weeks and 2 days ago
I say raise the voting age to 21.
Katherine Normandy @ 45 weeks and 2 days ago
Agreed.
Old Holborn @ 45 weeks and 2 days ago
Why though?
Bill Dewison @ 45 weeks and 2 days ago
I said why below, "It would make more sense to increase the voting age to 21 to allow them to learn a wee bit about the real world, if they can find it."

I'm in my forties and it took me a very long time to see past the lies and disinformation, propaganda, smoke and mirrors, social engineering, etc.

How do you expect a 21 year old to achieve this, never mind a 16 year old?

Or is that the point?
Stewart Cowan @ 45 weeks and 2 days ago
I had a very good idea of my political beliefs by the time I was 18.

I lived in a house where my father was the Father of the Chapel for his printing union and his hatred of Thatcher ingnited my interest in politics and pushed me even further to the right. Odd though that my parents moved house in order that I could attend a grammar school, had his own successful business and are such lefty bigots.

Stewart - I hope the 18-21 yr olds can find 'it' at university. I am not very happy at all about the advertising for the YBNP though it makes me shiver.
Katherine Normandy @ 45 weeks and 2 days ago
I despised Thatcher. I despised Blair. I despise Brown. I will despise Cameron. Do already.

They've all contributed to the downfall of the UK.

I'm not too happy about the YBNP or Conservative Future or Labour Youth or whatever the DimLibs have. They all aim to recruit into what has become a bad political system if you ask me.

Stewart Cowan @ 45 weeks and 2 days ago
Okay, I can accept that a 21 year old may well know more about the world, but the age of majority is 18. If that is the age set by law as the age of becoming an adult, then surely that should be the age where someone can begin to vote for the political party they want to respresent them?

I don't agree with voting at 16 years old, but I definately agree with voting as it is.
Bill Dewison @ 45 weeks and 2 days ago
So do I, Bill, as it happens. I was really arguing that 21 would be preferable to 16. Why do things always have to be 'fixed' when they aren't broken?

Stewart Cowan @ 45 weeks and 2 days ago
It suits the political establishment at the moment to deflect from the important issues with side issues such as resolving the expenses scandal through electoral reform. Electoral reform isn't the answer, but it provides a good smoke screen whilst the MPs continue their claims, and they are doing.

With the vote at 16 though, I go back to when I was in my mid teens. I desperately wanted to be recognised as an adult. I produced business plans that were cast aside because of my age. I wanted to prove I was responsible to drink alcohol sensibly and prove my elders wrong and I stupidly thought that life on my own in the big wide world was preferable to a life under the roof of my parents. A brief spell of homelessness sleeping on the street soon changed my mind.

I understand completely the need for 16 and 17 year olds to have their say politically, but they need to be patient for the right to vote. The political establishment are hungry for any number of new voters, so they will welcome this, but as a society we need to respect that we have the age of majority for a reason. It may seem unfair to the 16 or 17 year old that they have the capability to do so many other things, even working and paying taxes, but their time will come soon enough and hopefully that wait will make their passion for politics all the stronger.

I do feel guilty for having the view I have, I don't really want those under the age of 18 who view the LL to misunderstand me. I do know how frustrating it is to want to do something, feel you're ready but are blocked by those older people who think they know best, but there has to be a cut off somewhere. The system isn't perfect, far from it, but as long as the age of majority remains at 18, so should the starting age for voting.
Bill Dewison @ 45 weeks and 2 days ago
You're a breath of fresh air, Bill Dewison. I remember desperately wanting certain things as a teenager and to have to wait for something for a couple of years seems like forever. It's called life!

Younger people should get learning, so that when they are 18, they'll be better equipped. If they learn about the 'false left-right paradigm', propaganda, social engineering and of course learn from history, they could be a blessing and not a curse as so many in politics seem to be.
Stewart Cowan @ 45 weeks and 2 days ago
That hits the nail squarely on the head. Waiting to vote until the age of 18 is very much a blessing rather than the percieved curse, an excellent way to put it across, although not being that age any more I don't know how it would be taken by the politically minded who are.

My eldest is very political, even at the age of 10 years old. He has visited the Houses of Parliament, he has completed projects about the history of politics and is very opinionated about what is going on. He knows when the Magna Carta was signed, why it came about. It may sound strange but he actually debates me about my views and challenges me in some unusual ways. It is refreshing to hear such a young mind's opinion on complicated matters as he often thinks up some very simple answers to very complicated issues.

I dislike the idea that what I have written in reply to this article may discourage young people from engaging and joining in, but at the same time I believe voting is something that is worth the wait for those who are politically minded at a young age.
Bill Dewison @ 45 weeks and 2 days ago
I think your son's right. I think a lot of problems have simple solutions, which if implemented wouldn't make a profit for the right people!

I hope 16 and 17 year olds don't feel hard done by either. You can debate at any age. You can make a difference at any age.
Stewart Cowan @ 45 weeks and 2 days ago
Wasn't it 2001 when Labour, that great bastion of integrity, send round texts saying: "Want to drink 24hrs a day? Vote Labour"? I foresee more of that if the voting age is lowered.
Michael White @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago
If you are too young to smoke, you are too young to vote.

One of the odder outcomes of New Labour is that a 16 year old can have homosexual sex, but not a post-coital fag.
Mark Cannon @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago
An American reading that will have been left very confused.
Howard Walker @ 45 weeks and 2 days ago
Why 16? Why not 10, the age of criminal responsibility? Why have a minimum age at all? If you can put a cross in a box unassisted ...
Jonathan Morse @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago
When you consider Julian's position below where he states "neither do I accept that you have to be mature to exercise choice" I presume he agrees with you and we should be allowing children of any age to vote.

My 18 month old son has managed to draw basic shapes, so I'm sure I could teach him to mark a cross by the next election. My daughter will be nearly 12 months old by that time, I'm just wondering if I could teach her to do the same.
Bill Dewison @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago
But can you ensure that they will put the cross in the desired box and not cover the page in many crosses or anything else that will render the vote void? You can't accompany them into the polling booth.
Jonathan Morse @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago
That could be quite a challenge, although saying that there are exceptions with regards to accompanying someone into the booth while they vote.

I do have a backup plan. My eldest will be 11 years old by the time we have an election and he already has his own views on politics. He would be able to mark a box of his own choice, but also give you a valid reason why he chose the politician to vote for. I wouldn't say he is the most mature boy of his age, but as Julian says "neither do I accept that you have to be mature to exercise choice"

No problems then.
Bill Dewison @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago
surely if he is old enough to be punished for any crime he commits he's old enough to decide what those crimes should be. Besides, how many go towards the polling station planning to vote one way, or tell pollsters they'll vote one way, then vote another way when the ballot paper's in their hand? I think that's why labour lost in 92 and why we may yet win in 2010.
Jonathan Morse @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago
Firstly, and I do realise this is stretching the argument a little, but if a 6 year old child was to murder a 6 year old child, a crime has been committed. Does the 6 year old offender understand their crime, and if they do, does this mean they should be able to vote?

You may be right with the way people vote and you are right, there is a slim chance that all the polls are wrong and even given the behaviour and lies present in the Labour government, particularly over the past two years, the electorate will give them another chance. There is also a slim chance that David Cameron will be caught clubbing puppies with a lump hammer, but I doubt it.
Bill Dewison @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago
This is a truely puzzling proposal and I'll pitch my stall right from the start, I don't agree with it at all.

The age of majority in this country is 18 years of age. Many laws work towards this age of majority, denying those of minority (minors) a voice on issues such as alcohol, tobacco, areas of gambling and financial issues such as obtaining a mortgage, obtaining most types of finance and even the minimum wage itself is bias towards under 18s.

The only logical way to then say we should give under 18 years olds the vote would be to lower the age of majority to 16 years old at the same time. Is that something being considered?

The argument that 16 year olds can go out to work, pay tax, even join the armed services are positive, but conversely (as I said in a comment below) if you accept the argument, you would need to exclude those who do not work, do not pay taxes and are not capable of joining the armed services surely?

Many areas of our society are inaccessible to those aged between 16 years and 18 years. It may well be deemed unfair by those with a political mind that they can not vote until the age of 18 years, but there is nothing stopping them getting involved in other ways until it is their time to vote. I haven't heard a good argument that really strikes as a reason for them not to wait, and it is unfortunate, but the day that argument is put forward we should then argue why those aged 15 years, 14 years, why not 10 years old should be allowed the vote as well?

Young people are not excluded from politics at all, they are excluded from voting until they reach the age of majority, it really is that simple. If young people began to argue for the right to purchase tobacco or alcohol from the age of 16 on the basis that some pay taxes or some can drive on the public highway, would it be taken seriously?

One final point, and I don't mean to be picky at all, but isn't it fact that to join the armed services or get married before the age of majority, the minor would require the consent of their guardian? It was the case when I went applied to the Army even though I was estranged from my parents. If it is still the case, then these can not be used to prop up a very poor argument for the vote at 16 years old.
Bill Dewison @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago
The age of voting is a blunt tool. I do not intend to campaign for the removal of the vote for anyone, and I also support the concept of extending the vote to those who reside at Her Majesty's pleasure.

I cannot get in a lather about this issue, but neither do I accept that you have to be mature to exercise choice.

Marriage, legal parenthood, tax - all start at 16. True, most 16-year olds do not exercise these options. Perhaps most 16-year olds will not vote either. Give them the vote.

Julian Ware-Lane @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago
My argument has little to do with maturity, if it were about that I would not be able to vote despite my age in years. My argument is age of majority. It is written into our laws and your answer with regards to marriage, yes with parental consent, and tax, this will become irrelevent as pointed out by someone else below if the government force children to stay in school until they reach the age of majority.

I am not getting into a lather about the issue either Julian, I am simply pointing out why it is ill-concieved. Including those who are serving time in prison and giving 16 year olds the right to vote are completely different issues, but if you wish to debate the former, I'd be more than happy to oblige.

Serious question - Do you support the age of majority to be lowered to the age of 16 years?
Bill Dewison @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago
For me it is the American War of Independence argument: no taxation without representation. Sixteen and seventeen-year olds if working are taxed, s give them the vote.

The arguments over maturity would apply whichever dividing line you pick.
Julian Ware-Lane @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago
Give people under 18 a £20,000 personal allowance for income tax.

I certainly resented paying tax at 16 when I had no entitlement to any benefits etc.
tory 'killed for telling the uncomfortable truth' troll @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago
That argument, although one of the more positive ones, doesn't really work though Julian because conversely you would have to exclude anyone who doesn't pay tax from the electoral process.

This would exclude several Lords who have catagorised themselves as non-doms with the Revenue, countless directors of companies who have done the same, not to mention millions of men and women who are in full time education or have never had a job for whatever reason. And wouldn't it exclude severly disabled people who can not work because of their disability.
Bill Dewison @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago
But your examples are as a result of circumstances (disability) or choice (the Lords). In this scenario, 16 and 17 year olds are being actively prevented by government from being major taxpayers because it is illegal to leave school before the age of 18. The comparison stands.
Lord Palmerston @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago
Strictly speaking the Lords example is tax evasion, but I take your point with the disabled.

Excellent point with the education to 18 years old though, hadn't considered that at all.
Bill Dewison @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago
Surely the disabled pay VAT, duties on alcohol and ciggies? So they should be able to vote.
Jonathan Morse @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago
We could on forever about who pays tax, who doesn't but my point was that the argument that 16 year olds can pay tax does not justify them having the right to vote. And as has been pointed out, if the compulsory school leaving age becomes 18 years of age, presumably no one under the age of majority will be paying tax?
Bill Dewison @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago
We tax foreign nationals who work in the UK don't we? Do we allow them to vote in general elections? (And I don't mean EU member state foreigners voting in European/local elections but people from all over the world.)

Have you considered for .3 of a second the unintended consequences at lowering the voting age?
Konrad Baxter @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago
The argument is over what age we allow people to vote - not about other qualfications. I see as much merit in 16 as I do in 18. Whatever age we choose it will be arbitrary. I think that since it is possible to pay tax at 16 then this should be the age of voting.
Julian Ware-Lane @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago
Surely it is not about being arbitrary, it is about being consistent. Lowering the voting age increases that inconsistency. Bill Dewison is right to point out it is about the age of majority. If minors are not deemed fit and capable enough to take control of their own lives, how can they be allowed to take responsibility for the lives of others through the ballot box?

Adrian Potts @ 45 weeks and 2 days ago
So you have no intention of considering the downsides and dangers of lowering the voting age and you can't mount any kind of defence at all. Lazy, just like the Labour candidate who wanted this change last week.

Can you answer the other point I raised about tax and foreign nationals voting rights?
Konrad Baxter @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago
These pointes were left unanswered on another post..

The vote at 16?

Then do you also support smoking at 16?

Drinking at 16?

Watching hardcore pornography at 16?

18 certificate films being moved downwards to 16? (the abolition of the current video/cinema rating system)

Appearing in pornography from the age of 16?

I am sure there are various financial / banking arrangements that only become viable at 18 or older - would all these be lowered to 16? Could a 16 year old apply for a mortgage?

Is the drive to lower the voting age based simply upon the belief that tribalistic older voters will still have enough influence on their children / power over their children (who will probably still live at home, have a part time job at best, no assets to speak of, no debts, no savings of note, have little 'real world experience' and have displayed little interest in national and international politics) to make them vote for their personal tribe?

What about the vulnerable? We have seen how certain communities and party representatives have abused postal voting. There is a clear and obvious case that those who owe their shelter, food, safety, warmth, amenities and everything else will be at risk of pressure or direct threat from their guardians / parents.

Will education on how to vote happen at school? If so how will impartiality be maintained? How much will this cut into the overloaded curriculum? You can't get enough 18+ year olds interested in politics so does it automatically follow that extending the franchise by another 2 years will encourage more voting?


'Scores' of citizens asking to vote is a pathetic level of interest or terrible writing skills.
Konrad Baxter @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago
It's going to be New Labour policy, is it? To give 16 and 17 year olds the benefit of the doubt that they are mature enough to vote, yet keep them at school until they are 18.

It would make more sense to increase the voting age to 21 to allow them to learn a wee bit about the real world, if they can find it.
Stewart Cowan @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago
I have several problems with this.

First of all, it's necessary to take a broad view about when people are able to vote. Although many 16 year olds (and for that matter 15 year olds) are intelligent enough to cast a vote, by no means all of them are. There's a general age at which people are regarded as being adults. That age is 18. It makes sense to keep the voting age there.

Secondly, the Americans started a revolution on the basis of 'no taxation with representation'. This government has raised, or is planning to raise, the school leaving age from 16 to 18. Lowering the voting age would mean that we in effect have 'representation without taxation'. Is it right that a group of people should dictate how government spends taxpayers' money (which is its primary job) when they are prevented by law from being major taxpayers themselves? I suggest not.

Thirdly, this Government's approach to young people has not been even-handed. Under this Labour Government, two 16 year old boys have the right to have sex with each other but have been forbidden from having a cigarette afterwards. I don't see how any proposal to lower the voting age can be squared with taking away the rights of 16-18 year olds to do things (and it doesn't matter that smoking is harmful. If you give people a right, if follows that they may exercise it in a way with which you disagree).

Fourthly, children have more and more responsibility these days. A lot of people say that children don't have the opportunity to enjoy life because of social pressures, exam pressures and so forth. Do you want to give these people the further pressure of choosing a government? Let's give kids the chance to enjoy childhood. They only get it once. There's plenty of time for the agonies and strains of adult life.
Lord Palmerston @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago
Fifthly, this proposal massively misses the point. There is a serious problem with 18 - 30 year olds not voting. If a 16 year old is desperate to vote, he'll wait. This 'solution' will do nothing to get 18-30 year olds to the ballot box.
Lord Palmerston @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago
I always ask young people what we can do for them. But I do support votes for 16. If 16 year olds contributed to a democratic decision to vote for the right to smoke tobacco etc,then that would be democracy and should be followed, but it may be that 16 year olds are more mature than you think and dont vote for the right to smoke. 18 year olds have not voted to legalise canabis, voting should be the beginings of responsibility not the end
Robert Brown @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago
When have 18yr olds ever been given the chance to vote to legalise cannabis? If they were given the oppurtunity it would be legalised in an instant. The difference with tobacco and alcohol is that an 18yr old can legally buy them whereas they can't legally buy cannabis so there is no double standard.

If a 16yr old is not responsible and mature enough to make those kinds of decisions over their own lives, I certainly don't want them making decisions that could affect mine.
MonkeyBot 5000 @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago
Let's see:
the YCC was asked to look at reducing the voting age to 16.
3 out of the 13 people on the Commission were young.
They surveyed young people by:"People were invited to give the Commissioners their views on citizenship and youth engagement through various channels such as this website and consultation events that took place around the UK"

And who was researched:"Who was involved?

The research involved 90 young people and 90 adults from different age, ethnic and socio-economic groups from across the UK. "


Not a big enough sample with a target audience of 1.6 million.

Case dismissed: methodology false.


Frankly a polling company should have been employed. A professional one. the fact that none was used means that leading questions could have been asked and the sample was probably unrepresentative.

There is a single word to describe this exercise. It is "flawed".

madasa fish @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago
What are you going to do when those 16yr old voters demand that they be allowed to buy tobacco and alcohol?

It's ridiculous to reduce the voting age if you don't also reduce those other age limits as you're saying that a 16yr old can make decisions about the future of the country but can't be trusted to drink responsibly.
MonkeyBot 5000 @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago
And can they vote to be allowed to join the armed service? (16-year-olds killed by IED's. That's a vote winner)
Sam Francisco @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago
They can already join the forces at 16 and train, they just can't be deployed anywhere dangerous - except Deepcut Barracks that is.
MonkeyBot 5000 @ 45 weeks and 3 days ago