By Brian Barder
The Daily Telegraph has undeniably pulled off a great coup in getting hold of the details of MPs’ expenses claims and publishing them. It’s doing it in dribs and drabs, starting yesterday, thus pre-empting the official plan to publish them all together in July, after the elections in June to the European parliament and the county councils.
“MPs’ expenses: ‘lack of moral leadership’ revealed by politicians“, shouts the Telegraph’s front page headline, leading into predictably grubby revelations about the claims made by a number of Labour ministers. By selecting this group for the first day’s revelations, the Torygraph ensures that the widest media coverage will concentrate on dubious expenses claims made exclusively by Labour front-benchers: revelations about past claims by Tory and LibDem front- and back-benchers are being reserved for later, when public interest and outrage have begun to die down through inevitable indignation fatigue. In this way the newspaper will hope to inflict maximum damage on Labour’s performance in the June elections, although all the signs are that this will anyway be so dire that the Telegraph’s latest campaign can hardly make it any worse.
Of course there can be no excuse for some of the self-serving, rule-bending claims that the Telegraph’s first set of revelations laid bare yesterday. A shamefully large number of MPs of all parties, on front and back benches, have apparently behaved carelessly at one end of the spectrum, and probably semi-corruptly at the other, with all kinds of petty fiddling in between, most if not all of it technically within the letter of the rules (which MPs themselves have of course approved), but in some cases miles outside their spirit.
Moreover, whatever its underlying political motives, the Telegraph can’t be blamed for having procured (stolen?) and published the information, either: it’s self-evidently in the public interest that these matters should be available to us so that we can revisit our opinions of those caught with at least a couple of greedy fingers in the till. And because the Telegraph has got the addresses to which the claims and payments relate (information that was not intended for publication), it can uncover the sly dodges that some MPs have been up to more effectively than it could have done without them.
And yet, and yet.
The whole scandal, especially after the detailed but partial revelations published yesterday, has unleashed a predictable fire-storm of outrage and demonisation, not just of those newly identified as having fiddled or finessed their expenses, but of politicians as a class, especially but not exclusively focusing on Labour politicians (because it’s somehow deemed even more despicable to behave like this if you’re in government), and therefore of politics as a whole.
The blogosphere is humming with contempt for the whole breed. So are the tabloids, and many of the broadsheets. Phone-in programmes on radio and television are receiving buckets of bile to pour over politicians’ heads. The illustrious Guido Fawkes, über-blogger and publisher of the smears of prominent Tories and their wives, goes to town with talk of villains, shame and charades; the Guido fan club, faithfully following his cue, falls into line with a raft of ‘comments’ — 191 at the last count. It’s calculated to bring our whole political system into disrepute, just at the very time when we need to support our political leaders, most of them decent and honest men and women trying to make the world a better place, in their efforts to salvage something from the current financial and economic disaster. My own contribution by way of a comment on Guido’s blog post, posted under my own name, was:
"The worst thing about these revelations of petty venality on the part of some of our politicians is that they reinforce the general disillusionment with our politics and our politicians, just at the time when we desperately need widespread public support for action by governments everywhere (and governments are staffed by politicians) to get us through a massive global financial and economic crisis caused by a handful of much greedier private sector financiers, not at all by politicians. Bloggers, and the parasites who merely comment on blogs (mostly skulking behind pseudonyms), might pause before they join in the sneering clamour of contempt and hatred of our politicians, to consider whether a few injudicious claims for bath plugs and new boilers for second homes are really so much more wicked than the money-grubbing greed and deliberate obfuscations of what the bankers and hedge fund managers and co. were doing with other people’s money to make millions for themselves while bringing down the whole financial system on which millions all over the world depended. Let’s keep this thing in perspective, OK?"
Being an MP is a gruelling and demanding job: the mountain of dreary but inescapable constituency work requires you to be a social worker and legal adviser without any training or preparation for either role; working hours in the house of commons - although reformed - are still unsocial; the vast majority of the proceedings in the House and its committees are unspeakably tedious; the long separations from family and friends famously tend to lead to marital break-up, alcoholism and worse; the lack of real power over an over-mighty executive saps energy and will; dependence on the favour of the Whips for any chance of advancement to ministerial office is degrading; those who achieve it are generally unfitted for it, since ministerial success requires quite different talents from those needed to win a constituency election; many of your fellow-MPs will always be uncongenial company; you have little or no job security and your ability to hold onto your seat every three or four years depends on circumstances quite beyond your control; you are fairly poorly paid and if you make up for this by claiming all the allowances that parliamentary officials tell you you’re entitled to, you’re likely to be lampooned across the nation’s front pages and television screens as little better than a bank robber or hedge fund manager.
No wonder the intellectual and charismatic cream of the population would rather be water-boarded than submit to the rigours and penalties of such a career.
But these are the people on whom we depend for rescue from the depredations of free market capitalism. Like the coal miners of the past, they do a job that few of us would be willing to do, but one that for all our sakes has to be done by someone. It behoves us to treat them more fairly and even — some of them, anyway — with just a hint of respect.
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Douglas Carswell's posted a confidence motion against Blairs champagne socialist speaker. Michael Martin will not need a new job though, his pension is to die for.
For those of you who haven't heard the news, some choice extracts from BBC news:
Labour MP Kate Hoey said, as the newspaper had chosen to black out details like addresses, asking the police to investigate was "an awful waste" of police resources and suggested MPs had something to hide. - But an annoyed Mr Martin said he had already heard her "pearls of wisdom on Sky News".
He also told off Lib Dem Norman Baker - who has long campaigned for greater transparency on MPs' expenses - as "another member who is keen to say to the press what the press wants to hear".
From the Telegraph Blog:
Speaker Michael Martin (to another MP): "I have been a trade unionist all my life. I did not come into politics not to take what is owed to me."
Kate Hoey on R4 said 'Let me put it this way - I wish we still had Betty Boothroyd'
what went wrong ?
Lovely line that one.
If he is owed something, I wonder who he thinks it is owed by?
Being a socialist he probably thinks that 'society' owes him something... but you know what?
You were there before me weren't you?
"There is no such thing as society, there are individuals and families..."
For socialists (like martin) 'society' is a way of saying 'taxpayer' without acknowledging that they are leeching off others hard work.
Ummm.
Let me guess.....
"Despite furiously complaining that their hard work requires them to have second homes, most were curiously missing from the chamber.
The Evening Standard counted 41 MPs present for Work and Pensions Questions, the first event after the sitting began at 2.30pm.
That was not unusually low for a Monday afternoon, because many MPs drift back slowly from their weekend's spent at homes in the country or their constituencies.
But it was a topic that would be expected to draw a big crowd of Labour MPs, given their interest in the welfare system and social reform. James Purnell was answering questions, flanked by ministers Tony McNulty and Kitty Ussher who were both embroiled in claims about their expenses."
I don't know how these three scroungers had the cheek to show their faces either!
Mr Grayling, who already apparently owned three properties within the M25, bought the flat with loans subsidised by the taxpayer.
He is alleged to have delayed putting in claims so he could received the maximum in Additional Costs Allowance (ACA) over consecutive years."
Until a couple of months ago Grayling was shadow Work & Pensions secretary, and he was engaged in an unsavoury Dutch auction with Purnell as to who was "tougher" on welfare claimants. The word "scrounger" often enamated from Graylins lips
WHAT A HYPOCRITE!
Gordon Brown needs a savvy campaign manager who can call the shots just as much as George Broussard needed a good project manager who could stand up to him. Effective policy and presentation is great but you also have to be timely. Fix that and the cookie cutter opposition parties and their media fanboi's would be left in the dirt.
The market knows what it wants and Laour is best placed among all the parties to ship that. There's been some very good articles on Labour List and some good sentiments AG has expressed that nail it as much as anything does. Heck, Charlie Brooker (a former games journalist) gets it. It's not hard.
And, with all due respect, if you don't think £64,000 for a bog standard backbencher and a minister earning between £98,000-£142,000, is good pay, you must live in a very strange world, alien to most of us. Perhaps if you lived in a mansion in Sunnningdale with a chauffeur driven Bentley, you might consider they subsist on poverty wages, but most of us live in rather less rarified circumstances.
The more you try to justify or excuse it, the more otiose your article looks.
You are very brave admitting that.
What we pay is enough to attract the unscrupulous, and (increasingly) those who are unable to hack it in the real world.
The people that we *really* need in Parliament won't be attracted by money as such, but by the belief that they can make a difference (which the current lobby-fodder awaiting preferment by political patronage clearly can't), and by managing to enhance their own self-respect and the respect that others hold them in (a small minority of MPs already manage this - kudos to the few who have not succumbed to the sleaze-pit).
Let's look though at what this "difference" is: Cameron wants to make a you-know-what by being the "heir to Blair" Enough said - no thank you. How has Blair/Brown made a you-know-what?. By gross hypocrisy, by attacking some of the weakest in society while maintaining the status-quo for the well-off: by trying to cut benefits to single mothers in 1997 to Purnell implementing a Tory peer's unformed and ignorant views on welfare reform in 2009 so that people who are genuinely ill or disabled will have to go through hoops and add to their anxieties to obtain a new benefit, and to try to force as many people as possible off it - introduced right at the time unemployment was reachjing 2 million an rising. By, at America's behest joining in wars, one of them illegally prosecuted, by devious and dishonest means, by the then PM virtually lying through his teeth. By seeking to introduce a "part" privatisation of Royal Mail, at the cost of several thousand jobs of ordinary low paid workers, not supported by at least 150 of their own MPs, nor by the public. The only "difference" many of the PLP has made is to their own pockets - including the pampered wife of a millionaire who seems to think we should pay for her security guards, because she is nervous where she lives - it doesn't occur to the silly woman to move to somewhere she might feel safer - including her own home not very far outside London. And another middle-aged man who named mummy & daddy's home as his second home - even though he doesn't live there. The only good thing which may come out of this will be if at the next election their constituents remember their profligacy and deceit and boot them out of office - this applies to ALL M.Ps caught out, regardless of party.
moratorium
Today: Andrew Lansley (shadow health) will learn charged a fortuine to have his house done up just before selling it.
Alan Duncan, a millionaire, seems to want a garden like the one at Blenheim Palace (though he has less than an acre) and charges us for the priveledge - at Blenheim Palace prices. No wonder Cameron and his horrible little chum Osborne kept quiet the last few days.
I'm pretty sure there's some good MP's even if they make mistakes and get caught up in the wrong company. I was fairly impressed with my last (Labour) MP but she was too much of a party animal and that cost her the seat. The current one (Liberal) rode in on a wave of populism but is full of BS and lining his own pocket.
I think, any reasonable person would be able to tell the difference between someone who wants to build or merely asset strip. While it can be frustrating to watch other people gum up the works or get in the way, one can learn from these mistakes so you don't have to make them yourself.
1. Publish the full and uncensored official details of all MPs expenses forthwith.
2. Declare a General Election for 4 weeks hence. (Plenty enough time for the public to evaluate their MPs expenses and see whether they - and their party - deserve re-selection and/or re-election).
3. Hand over the matter of MPs expenses to an independent body to come up with a new system of expenses/allowances within 4 weeks to be applied in the new Parliament (4 weeks is plenty of time: its not rocket science).
If a course like this was adopted, then within less than two months Parliament would be purged of the worst offenders and will have regained its legitimacy in the eyes of the public. And, importantly, the new government of the day could get down to the serious business of governing at this time of economic crisis.
Alas, as mentioned above, this depends on the country having a 'bold' PM who's prime concern was the well-being of the country.
Look, can you see this? It's the world's smallest violin, playing just for the hard-working MPs. Well, those who actually pitch up for Select committees and votes and stuff. 150 days off a year? And they have the temerity to moan about getting more leave than school teachers? They don't have to be sodding social workers, that's what we pay social workers for.
And bollocks about the fairly poorly paid, they're just greedy thieves. Most of the population of the UK would consider the base salary generous for the amount of work, even without the ludicrously generous expenses. And how about that tasty pension package?
Brian, you need to stop smoking the pink pipe of the political class. They're thieving, bullying bastards, one and all. Their expenses are all going to show up "administrative errors" that would get you or me fired. They are nothing special, it's just useful idiots like you who portray them as something they are not.
Sack the lot of them. Stick the most egregious thieves in jail. Purge the festering rot.
Nothing else will do.
I commented on the PM getting on top of this the other day. Meanwhile, Brown has been dicking around and Cameron has just walked in and picked up the prize. As I've commented before, the PM needs to stop his bluesky daydreaming and flapping about the media and be more practical and sociable. It's not hard.
The PM needs to take another run at this and put whovever the berk handling the report is back in his box. People need physical action not waiting on some jumped up report by someone trying to curry favour with a pretender to the throne.
So to save them the trouble (we appreciate they’re very busy people) We've gone all creative on their behalf, and this weeks Spotify playlist is all about fiddling expenses.
www.riphertoshreds.co.uk/the-beat-goes-on/spotified/the-playlist/
Rip her To Shreds
Labour supporters, rather than spinning and apologising for Labour MPs who've been caught milking the system, should be boiling with anger at this privileged elite who our support has put in a position they've seen fit to exploit in this way. The few, kept in luxury by the many.
They, like Fred Goodwin, should pay the money back if they want to regain the respect you talk about.
But he is correct in this article. Things will be worse for working people under a Tory government, especially one which pulls in 150 new right wing MPs.
I absolutely deplore this government’s record on civil liberties (ID cards, DNA databases, CCTV, email/webbrowsing/IM megabases, privatised prisons), and part of it’s economic policy has clearly failed. It was also far to friendly to the city and the rich. And Gordon Brown is useless as a politician.
But it is ludicrous to thing the Tories will be any better *in any of these areas*. Economic policy will be oriented to help the rich *because that is who the Tories represent and what they have always done*.
The Tories will attempt to shred the welfare state. They may go after the universality of benefits and pensions, but doing so would radically undermine the social consensus.
David Davis was brave to stand on the 42 days interment issue, but there is no evidence that the rest of his party will support that.
All my emotions are for Labour and it’s core values. I will vote Labour (Bury South is too close a constituency to justify juvenile voting). But what would probably be the best outcome would be some sort of severely hung parliament where Lib Dems would restrain Tory excess, but demand PR. PR would ensure we remain a centre-left nation for ever.
http://englisheclectic.blogspot.com/2009/05/peter-mandelson-is-right.html
I don't like the idea of a Tory government one bit, but that is no defence of the goings-on with expenses, or the idea that we should let them continue to get away with it.
It should also be no surprise to hear that one of Blair's greatest sycophants and disciples, Stephen Byers has been at it as well: he claimed £125,000 for his girlfriends home, where he lives rent free. The home is a flat. A very pricey one to upkeep (How different to Baroness Uddin, who lives in London in a Housing Association home - well she is so poor)
I hope we now hear no more from the pious Blairites and their "doing the right thing" rhetoric
I knew someone as bad as the PM. Vague, waffly, dithering, procrastinating, lacking confidence, awkward social skills, never telling you the whole picture, the whole deal. Get the guy talking about his favourite obsession or something that doesn't need thinking and he was fine. Anything else and you were fubared.
The Prime Minister needs to calm his thinking down and relax, and present himself more confidently and carry people with him. If he did that most of the flack from this affair would've been diverted. He's probably sincere and not directly to blame but he's the captain of the ship. I'm not sure he properly gets that at the moment.
I need to start seeing reasons why he should be PM.
The problem, essentially, remains Brown. He's taken steps to sort himself out but he's still not executing that well. He's trying too hard at some things and not hard enough at others. Zen has something to say about that.
A smarter politician might accept and explain the situation better and put it in the bigger historical, economic, and social context. These things happen and now excess at the top and poverty is back on the agenda it's perfectly possible to pitch a new deal. I'm just not hearing that confident, forward leaning, reasonable, and persuasive pitch.
I don't watch broadcast media and never bother with PMQ's but given the waffle Cameron asks it should be possible for the Prime Minister to use that to deliver the pitch. He could also give a keynote but he's spending too much time waffling on about random policy X and random policy Y on his travels.
For a Prime Minister who gave Mandelson such praise after he delivered some obscure speech on what sounded remakably like Tao economics, the Prime Minister is a complete dullard at executing it in a personal fashion. He spends too much time in his head worrying about things. He has to start living it.
the only hope wohuld be to bring forward the reshuffle BEFORE the EU elections and local elections and get rid of all those ministers who have misbehaved - I won't bother withj a role-call of their names again.
A good communicator could persuade people that the change had already happened but they need to be convincing and sincere. People and timing, to some degree, is mere presentation to the essence. If it goes ding and people are reassured no immediate, if any, resignations would be necessary.
There's an Alan Partridge sketch in there somewhere.
Ricardo's Ghost. as a Tory, why not do or say something about this?
" backbencher David Heathcoat-Amory claimed more than £380 for horse manure."
What was that stuff about whiter than white?
I think you must live in some parallel universe.
Ordinary folk are suffering financially and socially in the UK.
The sleaze and spin occurred on Labour's watch.
It was Labour's duty months and months ago, if not years ago to root out these criminals from parliament.
What do you expect the Torygraph to do?
Are you completely brain dead?
Jack
I will not vote labour again.
It is a gruelling job, but so are many jobs. And comparing it to coal mining which is far harder, longer and more dangerous is an insult to those that have worked down the mines. It really, really is. It's an insult to the majority of working people.
It's an insult to the vision of the Chartists and the early trade unionists and all those who fought for payment so ordinary people coul work in parliament.
I don't know what the answer is, I don't work in the system (apart from a day a week for an MP who theyworkforyou tells me is far down the list of expenses! woop!) and I don't know it's intricacies of the system but something has to be done. And cynical Labour supporters who say 'at least it's the Torygraph' or 'at least it will be out of the way by the elections' clearly don't understand how important being the people's party is.
I love the Labour party and I believe it's the last bastion of the left atm that has any shred of integrity, infrastructure or organisational skills but there's no excuse for this. I'm profoundly embarassed. People who try and excuse this away or cover it up will ultimately only make things worse. I'm going campaigning next week when my essays have been handed in and I honestly don't know what I'm going to say when the questions come. Apart from say sorry.
"But these are the people on whom we depend for rescue from the depredations of free market capitalism."
These are people that ruthlessly take advantage of all they can get, they are the epitome of capitalism. I know it's a minority of MPs but let's face it, apart from Benn, Milliband and a few others they're all really high profile people.
There is no shortage of candidates to be MPs - you last paragraph is a straight lie - there are plenty of people willing to do the work, if they current bunch don't like the job they should just f-off and let someone else take their place.
Guy Fawkes over at order-order hasn't told any lies that I have seen.
Revealing politicians fiddling expenses is not a smearing - it is a public service.
Seems like the usual lefty tactics of misusing a specific term to imply a wider range, then discrediting the new range and so the term itself - well, you ain't going to get away with it.
'Smears' are lies - that is what labour specialise in.
Revealing politicians fiddling expenses is not a smearing - it is a public service.
However, the "pity the poor MPs" speech above is quite frankly silly. If I recall, the average household income is £28k, from which travel to work, food etc are NOT expenses and an MPs salary is about £50k, better than 90% of the population. In addition, the pension scheme for MPs is one of the best in any job. In addition, even if MPs are kicked out, their experiences and knowledge of the system allows them to move on to other jobs without difficulty, especially in the area of company directorships etc. In terms of job security, an MPs job generally lasts about as long as any of us nowadays, and successful (I'm trying to avoid the words popular and hard working in light of what's come out) MPs build up a constituency loyalty that allows them to go on past any election where the winds of change are against the governing party.
I've recently experienced both ends of the pay scale. I've just started a new job after spending about 6 months on unemployment benefit, where I've discovered the system to be a badly managed joke. Now I have a job again, I am certainly not complaining about my poor pay (which is incidentally about the same as an MPs, with 75 miles each way to work and whilst I can claim expenses, they're nowhere near as generous as an MPs!)
What also annoys me is the fact that MPs have spent large tranches of the public money trying to protect the public, who are in effect their employers and paymasters, from learning everything about how they have been taught to manipulate the expenses system to top up their "terribly poor" salary. Even now, instead of directing the police to investigate whether any MPs have committed criminal offenses like fraud, the MPs are committing the offence of Wasting Police Time by trying to prosecute someone for the leak of information about how they've had their noses in the trough.
MPs enter a job where they are elected on their reputation, and the fact that some of them seem to be spending more time and money renovating houses than looking after their constituents is ridiculous.
In short, MPs should recognise that their terrible working conditions are better than those of most of the United Kingdom, recognise that they are accountable to the public and that they have a right to know how their money is being spent.
I think that in the next Honours list should be Joanna Lumley, Shami Chakrabati, and the man or woman who leaked the expenses information (whether he or she was paid or not). They seem to be far more concerned about the rights and responsibilities of this country towards its citizens than any MP.
As a Conservative supporter I've been speculating that maybe this is a Labour trick. My argument has been that they KNEW it was going to come out sometime, so released it to the Telegraph in order to have some damage limitation. I wondered if the plan was to get the "big Labour names" out early, thereby saving their opposition's headlines until very close to June 4th. The public, being somewhat fickle about headlines, would have the Conservatives and Lib Dems fresh in their mind when it came time to vote.
Your argument that the Telegraph is a "Tory" paper isn't one that everybody shares. Certainly, it USED to be. But you must be aware many Conservatives have taken to using the nickname "The Labourgraph" for it because of the subtle swing left it has taken in recent months. Now I'm not sure I agree with that. It still has plenty of right-leaning columnists. All I'm saying is this isn't as cut-and-dried as it seems.
In truth, there's probably a fair chance this isn't dirty tricks by anybody. It's probably just a newspaper trying to make the most cash it can.
I agree with the poster here that all parties are being brought into disrepute by all this. The press are spinning this in such a way as to make it look and feel far, far worse than it actually is. But the fact is, MPs chose to avoid taking a rise by moving their additional money elsewhere in order to "look good" for the public. This sort of short-term opportunistic thinking is never going to be a good alternative to making a plain honest argument. Those chickens are now coming home to roost for everybody.
MPs ... all of you ... next time if you need a rise SAY YOU NEED A RISE. Make the case. Spin and deceit come back later to bite you in the arse.
Whaa...? *spin* Whaa...? *spin Wha...?
Aw, man. I feel dizzy.
No one in this country is actually entitled to a high income and no is is entitled to a house so here are some calculations.
MP's can sell their homes and then rent.
If over 4 years they can make £300,000 then get made redundant and live on say 20,000 a year then £300,000 / 20,000 means they wont have to find a proper job for 15 years.
Not so bad now is it?
WHEN labour lose the next election how many MP's will actually be signing on every two weeks? Will i be in the que behind ANY MP for the lie detector, if i am it will be overloaded and broken by the time it's my turn.
I like your article ---
I think the expenses row is only part of the present culture that has been evident for a while.
Cameron is a lightweight politician but has the confidence when it comes to personal attacks on PM because the media is behind the Tory Party and footage shown will be edited to make PM look inadequate.
The Tories have no answers to the financial tsunami the world is facing but they are using every trick in the book to attack and discredit the Government.
Gordon Brown got rid of Draper & Mcbride for smears but what is blatently obvious is that this is how the Tory camp operate both in front of the camera and behind the scenes.
The rich have seen their wealth greatly reduced in the last few months and
are funding the Tory Party to the hilt to get a Conservative Government elected because the know they will be looked after with their inheritance tax reduction etc. and possible removal of %50 tax band.
We can see that money being spent on BBC, SKY, for eg. new reporters are Conservatives. These companies need Tory money.
I now distrust the Tories so much that I think they have funded the Telegraph to gain these receipts to discredit the Cabinet & Labour MPs.
They know by leaving the Tory MPs to last the initial furore will have died down as people become less interested.
Should the Government bring in the police to investigate who took or sold on the receipts----
I'm sceptical that what has gone on previously regarding Damian Green and the Civil Servant getting off for their misdemeanors if it would be just a cosmetic exercise with no findings.
Our PM & Chancellor have their critics but I support them I know as Scotsmen they could've been Nationalists---
They chose the Labour party in their youth and I can recognise that they are true Socialists and practice fairness and justice for all and not just the few.
Socialism is not just a belief it comes from inside a person on how they think everyone should be treated.
It was only recently I heard it put really well by the comedian Frank Skinner when on Question time he said "If jesus was alive he would be a member of the Labour party" that's what he was brought up to believe about socialism.
MPs should get behind the PM unity would show strength and resume Brown's
confidence. He is the right man for the job.
They chose the Labour party in their youth and I can recognise that they are true Socialists and practice fairness and justice for all and not just the few.
So much for your judgement:
From the Tory Press I say Tory because it's a story you wont like:
The prime minister suffered a new blow this weekend as a top Labour official, who had played a key role in Brown’s elevation to No 10, labelled him a “disaster”.
Peter Watt, former general secretary of the party, said: “At the moment the government appears to have absolutely no direction.”
In an interview with The Sunday Times, Watt lifts the lid on the prime minister’s behaviour behind closed doors, accusing him and Harriet Har-man, his deputy, of sacrificing colleagues for political gain.
confidence. He is the right man for the job. "
Oh purlease, what nonsense is this, he is a weak man with no leadership skills and the only people to treat him with more contempt than the electorate is his own party. And why does HE need a second home allowance at all? He has lived at No.10 for the last 12 years.
Earning £142,000 a year Purnell doesnt really need to charge us over £9000 for his groceries, nor £1600 for apparent "cleaning" which wasn't done.
Whichever MP charged fora 5 pence Ikea plastic bag is cheap and tawdry. As for Mr Keith Vas, well, all I can say is that this extremely pompous man has been caught out yet again. Obviously no lessons were learned in 2001.
I could go on and on, but the idea that these MPs are blameless, and care only about "social justice" is pure hookum.
They are both greedy and stupid, as is the person they all worship - Blair. His example of money grubbing seems to have infected a great number of Blairites and in charging outrageous amounts for things - and food - the rest of us have to pay for is monsterous and yet another sign of just how much in contempt they hold us. One final point: we have cases of MPs charging for top of the range TV's - surely a cheaper alternatiev would let them see the news channels, they don't need home cinemas and if they do they should do like the rest of us - buy them themselves.
I am afraid your somewhat blinkered and rose-coloured version of New Labour doesn't accord with the facts.
Woman do need to be secure when they live alone. At least she's an independent woman and not living off her old man's wealth. I think paying for her to live secure in her flat is cheaper than a hotel in London for the duration of her stint in parliament.
Houses have to be cleaned----I wouldn't like to live next to a neglected property---It's wrong to neglect property and if you are not always around it is responsible to maintain it with a cleaner and to repair roofs etc.
The system in place for MPs was for them to submit a receipt and then the commons would advise what would be reimbursed according to the rules.
Mps represent us 165 days of the year.
They must be able to have their families around them as much as they can--Children expect there to be TVs in homes etc--just think about it?
Is it only people with wealth to support themselves that we want in parliament---
I certainly don't!
Look what's coming--or will it not! be reported?--Tories with more homes than you and I could imagine.
I'm sure they still spend their expenses in full.
"Houses have to be clned" Yes. But how about flats? Purnell charged us £1600 but the picture shown in the papers a few weeks ago showed a place that had rarely - if ever - be cleaned.
"Mps represent us 165 days of the year". Quite. And we pay them £64,000 to do so.
"Is it only people with wealth to support themselves that we want in parliament"
Well, Mrs Follett who enjoys wealth befitting a millionaires wife could well support herself. She just prefers to ponce off the rest of us. The housing allowances are not, in any case, intended for security guards. As I understand it the rules allow for burglar alarms etc and general wise security precautions, so she is abusing the rules.
I am going to compliment you and say you sound above average intelligence.
However Alan it amazes me that you don't recognise a photograph(As in purnell's sink)being airbrushed to extend rust and make it look disgusting.
C'mon own up you agree with our right wing Tory press?
As regards our Tory press, well even the Daily Mirror is not very kind to the allowances cheats of MPs - hardly part of the Tory press.
The fact remains if these people had not been so greedy and profligate there would be no story. As I said before only Woolas has affected anger and denied the reports against him and threatend to sue (it will be interesting to see if he does).
You should be angry Elizabth, not at the press but at the fact that Blairites have sold out the principles of the Labour party and bought it into disrepute with their appalling greed and self-serving. It makes it harder for the genuine Labour MPs who don't behave in so disgusting and improper a manner, b ecause the perception will be that they are all at it - of course they are not. I have named three ministers who took only very modest expenses, but they will all be tarred with the same brush.
As people get older their eyesight resolution drops plus we can get lazy and tune out how things are deteriorating. One trick you can use it to photograph your home with a digital camera and see how things turn out. The stuff and clutter it picks up can be a bit embarassing. Oh, and flash photography brings out blotchy skin if you're not eating properly.
No, she lives off ours instead, how very independent of her.
I pretty much think the Tories and media are as bent as they come. Using PMQ's for mostly personal attacks and the blatant bias in some of the media pretty much guaranteed me not giving the Tories an inch or consuming the papers. It's called the off button, and something attention hungry politicians and media hate.
Labour have made mistakes but I'm more persuaded they have a better sense of what's required to create jobs and a fair society. Flirting with Cruddas and Purnell is fine but I'd rather Brown rediscovered himself and got on with it. The Tories and media are full of wind. That bluff needs to be called.
Maybe I should start a franchise.
But once the ruckus has died down, we must get beyond the Guido Fawkes 'they're all corrupt' descent into complete cynicism. There are many many MPs on all sides of the house who go into Parliament to serve their public, and make the country into a better place.
Without excusing the troughers, I absolutely have no time for 300k per year columnists with their inflated expense account dinners, claiming some kind of moral highground. And I absolutely abhor the Guido Fawkes tendency of faux anarchism which claims to show the corruption in Westminster, and yet with its smears, invective and cynicism actually has no ideals which could possibly be corrupted.
Regardless of which party they come from (so this is no Labourlist apology) politics needs to be rescued from disrepute. The moral hazards of complete apathy and cynicism about parliament and our political processes are far more dangerous and corrupting than any inflated expenses claim.
well as the presses continue to roll we will know 'who has nothing to hide and therefore nothing to fear'!
I hope this is remembered and reflected in their future progress.
Yes it does, I've said it before and I'll say it again, there is a very easy way to stop people reporting sleaze and criminal activity.
Go that far on your high horse, and you slip right off the moral highground into the gutter
Peter, back in the day, Labour would say that as a society we give and take to and from the same pot. Much fuss was made about tax evaders and benefits cheats taking from the rest of us, taking OUR money from our schools and hospitals. And do you know what? They were right. Margaret Moran and her £22,000 on dry-rot treatment is a nurse's wage for a year, Jacqui's 116K is three teachers for a year and Hoon and his multi-million pound property empire is half a new school. It IS criminal and it IS theft and there SHOULD be repercussions for these people. When the Labour party no longer protects the poor from the rich and powerful and, indeed, become the rich and powerful from which the poor need protection then they have really lost the plot. These people are getting everything they deserve. There is a very good chance the party won't survive this (and it takes a lot to make the tories look good) but if it does '79 - '97 will look like a few weeks in comparison.
I'd rather be on my high horse than completely credulous.
You and I may wish it was - but that's another matter. I see no credulity in any of that.
"There are those MPs who, despite their good intentions, have none the less fallen victim to an overly complex expenses system that has served to portray their actions in an unflattering light.
"For example, the receipts submitted by Gordon Brown for the cost of a cleaner, shared with his brother Andrew, fall into such a category.
"There has never been any suggestion of any impropriety on the part of the prime minister or his brother."
Okay, so when is the editor of The Telegraph going to resign? The paper was irresponsibly chasing headlines that could've wrongly ruined reputations and lost people their jobs. What makes the media think they're immune?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/may/08/tony-mcnulty-mps-expenses
Hmmm.... From what I've seen on this blog, I'd say that 95% of the posts have come from 'activists' would would sell their grannies into slavery for the chance to be an MP.
It is all very well for these people to claim they ahve done nothing wrong, and that it was within the rules. If true, the rules need to be ripped up and rewritten to be more draconian.
There should also be an end to MPs and ministers BUYING second homes. Money should only be given for them to rent. That would end their housing scams.
Brian, stop deluding yourself. MPs voted for their own expenses system and as recently as April Fool's day, relaxed the rules even further. The political system is in disrepute precisely because of the behaviour of MPs. Guido, the Telegraph and the tabloids are simply reporting the disgraceful goings on. Blaming the messenger is pretty lamentable.
In what sense is that "fairly poorly paid".
Indeed for lobby fodder - which is what 99% of them are - it is fairly well paid!
"you have little or no job security and your ability to hold onto your seat every three or four years depends on circumstances quite beyond your control; you are fairly poorly paid"
Three or four years? There is hardly ever a general election called before 4 years has elapsed from the last, and this time it looks as if it will be 5 as it was in 1979 and 1997. So these "poor" MPs have a jobn for at least 4 or 5 years. FRather different for the proles - "temporary contracts" means a person might only have a job for a week - a month if they are lucky, and even long term contracts are usually only for 18 or 24 months. So they do far better than ordinary people. I don't know quite while you feel so sorry for them - if they can't face the idea of being seperated from their families (what about service personnel? thanks to Blair's wars many of them in Iraq or Afghanistan don't see their families for months, and some will never see them again), if they don't like the idea of advice surgeries, the working hours, or they feel they may have an alcohol dependency, they shouldn't apply for the job in the first place. You make them sound as fragile as a Victorian lady poet.
Nice.
Alex do we really need stuff like this at LL?
(Well, at least since MPs and trade union leaders stopped posting).
There's a very, very easy way to stop Guido reporting on sleaze, can you guess what it is Brian?
Which begs the question why do the Blears, McNultys, Purnells, Folletts, and Smiths condescend to do this job, rather than the easy money they could earn being lavatory attendants?. Well, as I have said before, a measure of arrogamce, a belief in their own self-importance - and the chance to furnish a second home or even build up a property portfolio at our expense, perhaps?
There ARE some decent MPs of course: Ed Miliband, Hilary Benn and Alan Johnson are three ministers who have taken very very little in the way of allowances. I don't even grudge John Prescott two lavatory seats, it is people like Purnell, McNulty, Blears and Purnell I most detesty, for having the cheek to talk about "benefit scroungers" when they are benefit scroungers themselves.
Spot on there Brian. Let's face it, only 95% of the country are getting paid less than MPs. Lucky they're not 'very poorly paid' - then they would only be getting more than, say, 90% of the country.
Seriously Brian, if you genuinely think that three times national average earnings is 'fairly poor' pay, then you need to get out of your London latte parlour and talk to a few real people.
And I'm a member.
I recall before the last Euro elections the roll of the MEP being slagged off, the left wing vote falling and a right wing EP being elected, which has proceeded to act in the best interests of big european businesses - left wing MEP's may have voted for green solutions, workers rights, local collective agreements trunmping that of the country where the contractor comes from, opposed rules that allow East European truck drivers to mow down our pedestrians and cyclists, but what good has it done? The rich aren't just investing money in the Tory Party - the clever place is in the media which dictates the agenda, and so effective it is too.
As for the rest - I don't expect further attempted defense of indefensible behaviour. I expect a proper recognition that the action of what appears so far to be a substantial proportion of MPs was *entirely contrary* to at least five of the seven "Nolan principles of public life", and especially especially represents a gross breach of the principle of "leadership".
Each dodgy MP owes a personal apology to *every* person on benefits that has ever made any error in completing a form and been penalised for it - no "sorry - made a mistake" for them! Each dodgy MP owes a personal apology to *every* UK taxpayer for trying it on with our money. Each dodgy MP owes a personal apology to *every* elected representative - from Parish council to Unitary Authority - for imposing appropriately stringent rules for the conduct of members of such bodies while cavorting in such inappropriate laxity themselves. And so on.
Any MP who cannot recognise this is entirely unfit to serve the public in any capacity whatsoever, and I'd hope that constituency parties will consider de-selection (where possible) for any MP who fails to both apologise and to reform their habits.
As an ordinary "Joe" I am angry, apalled, disgusted and now actually frightened by what the future of British Politics has to offer.
In this day and age I feel we must accept the system has irretrievably broken down and should be looking at an alternative. We have the technology and supposedly the brains to invent a new system of democratic politics.
Until we do, we should have a "None of the above" box on our polling cards to show that the current situation is just not viable any longer. The British people deserve better than what we have now.
MPs are not there to make money, they are public servants to govern and display good and moral judgement as our representatives; 1 MP for every 90,000 of us. MPs are not there to rip off the taxpayer with dodgy expense claims that show absolutely no judgement and absolutely no morality.
So there is a big difference between bankers and MPs.
I'll treat dishonest MPs fairly when they treat my taxes fairly by paying back where they have made ludicrous claims and make a proper apology. MPs need to remember they are there to serve us not help themselves.
If they don't like that idea, they can stand down and their constituencies can pick new candidates and we will decide who to put in the House of Commons.
You're like those doom heralders on CiF who make a pig metaphor and or call the Labour party fascists three times every single comment.
Also by the way I think the current second homes allowance was devised by Thatcher :]
Well done, you win the non-sequitur of the week award.
Oh wait.
Respect is earned and it is not demanded.
>>Respect is earned and it is not demanded.<<
And there, in a simple sentence, is everything that's wrong with society. How succinct.
Respect should not need to be "earned". It should be freely given to all automatically. Respect can be "lost" when somebody shows themselves unworthy, but the default setting should be: "respect - on." That's the recipe of a decent society.
can i have my kit kat now ?