By Alex Smith / @alexsmith1982
UPDATING...
Some reaction to the letter from Twitter and elsewhere...
Alan Johnson
Gordon Brown is the best man to lead Labour.
Ed Miliband
The vast majority of PLP members are clear: let's get on with the job of government. Gordon Brown absolutely will lead Labour into the election and he has the support of the cabinet and the vast majority of my colleagues on the backbenches. This will be seen as an incident, but it will be forgotten. Geoff Hoon and Patricia Hewitt don't have the influence to do what they've tried to do today. I'm sure [David Miliband] is supporting Gordon Brown.
Andy Burnham
They've misjudged the mood on this one. This wil be gone as quickly as it's arrived. It's frustrating: Gordon demolished David Cameron in PMQs today and he's had the better of David Cameron at PMQs for a while now. We were beginning to make inroads, the Tories were beginning to wobble. But this is politics; people are entitled to make their views known. But this doesn't represent the majority of the movement. We've got a united cabinet, a good strong record - now's the time to get out their with that record, to talk about what this Labour government has achieved, what this Prime Minister's acheived. I accept my role in that too. We have to take the fight to the Tories.
Ed Balls
We're getting on with the job of government. Most people are looing at this and thinking we've lost our marbles; the important thing is that we get on, have a strengthening recovery. The majority of the PLP will have seen Gordon Brown doing brilliantly at PMQs, really putting David Cameron on the spot. I've got a lot of respect for Geoff and Patricia, but I don't they're speaking for the majority of the PLP. I've spoken to the PM, but he's getting on with doing the job; he's got a busy job this afternoon. There's always been noising off - in any political party. Gordon Brown is the best leader to take us into the election and the best person to take Britain through the recession. Today will be seen as a damp squib, the reality is that we are united. It's frustrating to have had a really good PMQs and then have the media moving on to these issues. Peter Manelson and Shaun Woodward are both behind the PM - and we'll see that from other cabinet ministers in the coming hours. The real politics and divisions could be seen in PMQs. This Labour Party is more united now than it's ever been. We have to take the argument to the country in a disciplined way. This afternoon is a diversion, but we'll move beyond it very quickly. Peter Mandelson put it very well: the cabinet is united behind Gordon Brown. We can win the argument at the ballot box. This week has been a very good week for the Labour goverment.
Peter Mandelson
No one should over react to this initiative. The Prime Minister continues to have the support of the cabinet. We will carry on as normal.
Will Straw says "Hewitt and Hoon are Labour's Dumb and Dumber"
Shaun Woodward
This is a school yard campaign. I'm 100% behind Gordon Brown because he's done a superb job. Around Britain, people will be astonished by this action. We think the right thing to o is get on and sort out the country. Jack Straw and Alistair Darling are doing their jobs. Geoff and Pat should withdraw this.
@alexsmith1982
One of the "usual suspects" is privately saying this "plot" is a "damp squib" <---It's going nowhere
@alexsmith1982
I think it's probably time for a secret ballot we can all take part in.
John Mann
Pat Hewitt's been raking it in from the private sector using her contacts book. This is going nowhere; it'll be over by the end of the day. Hoon has sour grapes because he didn't get the gravy train European job -- I'd like to take him into a backroom and sort him out personally. They're two pompous idiots.
Charles Clarke
I have written to Tony Lloyd, the Chairman of the Parliamentary Labour Party, to support Geoff Hoon's and Patricia Hewitt's proposal for a secret ballot of the Parliamentary Labour Party. I believe that this is the best way to resolve the many concerns which exist within the PLP and the ballot could be organized in a very few days. If such a ballot does confirm the Prime Minister in his leadership I will categorically accept that result and give him my public and private support through to the General Election.
Margaret Beckett
This is a waste of time, a big mistake - it should be ignored.
Patricia Hewitt
Supporters of the PM should welcome and support the secret ballot. It's clear in retrospect that it's a pity that there was no leadership election when Tony Blair left in 2007. A ballot could happen next Monday. Geoff and I have not been canvassing on this; this is not a plot. We've one this because we believe this is in the best interests of the Labour Party. We want an end to the public division, the briefings. The division is weakening our attack on the Conservatives. We've ha months punctutaed by public calls for the PM to go, by resignation, by speculation, by private worry. I have people in my constituency who strongly support the PM, but who want the matter resolved. We're saying quite straightforwardly and publicly: secret ballot, do it quickly, so everyone can abide by the result.
Number 10
Labour doesn't want a vote on the leadership.; it is ludicrous to suggest it would be helpful.
David Blunkett
A secret ballot is not possible maccording to Labour Party rules.
Tony Lloyd
Gordon Brown will be the leader next week and at the general election. There won't be a secret ballot because there is not the demand. It's pinprick stuff, but it deflects from us talking about our own policies.
Geoff Hoon
As a former chief whip I've been extremely concerned by the level of doubt in the PLP. I've had several emails within minutes saying what a good idea this is...If there is a clear majority of the PLP in favour of maintaining the current leaership, we can go on and fight the election...There are large concerns amongst Labour MPs...a widesprea group of MPs...about our inability to get our message across, and continuing questions about the Labour leadership...It will not be in the interest of the Labour Party to go into an election campaign with these issues rumbling on. If this matter is resolved once an for all, then everyone has to accept the result. Clarifying matters will help. The choice is between continuing ivision an uncertaintly an resolving the matter and uniting behind a leader.
Tony Lloyd, Chair PLP
"This is a diversion, not where we ought to be heading...there is no constitutional provision for this kind of sideshow"
@jessica_asato
I am at a loss for words. The time for complaining was June. Not now.
@AndrewLomas
This is just self-indulgence from people who could have spoken up at any time in the past 2 years. Why now?!
@CharlieWhelan
Would like to tweet what all the Labour Party members are saying about hoon and hewitt but mostly too abusive.
@MartinBright
Rather brilliant wheeze from Hoon and Hewitt. Is Gordon enough of a democrat? I wonder
@MartinBright
It's now or never
@Jessica_Asato
My money is on never
Luke Akehurst
Bizarre, weirdly timed and destructive.
Geraldine Smith MP
A secret ballot is a coward's charter..this is a small group of people...they've been pulling these stunts for a year...I'm extremely disappointed
@anthonypainter
Even if there were to be a ballot, it would only have one outcome. So what's the point in this? Futile and damaging.
@shamikdas
the idea of a secret ballot, a secret f***ing ballot of 352 people to decide the fate of the PM?! This is Britain!
@TomBage
Miliband, Mandelson, Darling or Straw. If you have the bloodlust, now's your chance.
@conn1231
Is Hoon and Hewitt actually really are labour people shouldn't they be fighting for a fourth term instead of being morons...
@LukePollard
Agree RT @benmiskell: If we want a Tory govt this type of rubbish certainly helps. The time for a change in leader passed along time ago
@LukePollard
Plotting MPs would be looked on a lot better if they delivered some leaflets instead of calling the media. #Doorstepsnotdarkcorners
@BevaniteEllie
Makes a change that Hoon and Hewitt aren't both former ministers who are bitter Blairites. Oh wait...
@Kexugdale
Message to hoon & hewitt - that ship has sailed! If your plan was to undermine the hardwork of 1000s of activists your succeeding
@PhilipHonour
geoff hoon may well just have cost Labout the election, thanks for that...idiot.
@estellehart
If Geoff Hoon thinks you're doing a bad job surely you're doing something right
@RobNewman
Spectacularly bad timing by Hoon after excellent PMQs. Unless someone in the Govt joins this "rebellion" it's doomed before it even begins
@BenFolley
First sight of Blairite coup letter via Tory site. Says it all.
@Kevin_McGuire
Polls narrowing, Cameron wobbling, Brown wins PMQs. Hoon-Hewitt raise leadership. Labour has a death wish
@GabyHinsliff
anti-Brown plot breaks http://bit.ly/66oIfO love the idea that balloting MPs on ditching GB cd be done with 'minimum disruption'...
@Luke_cb
Geoff Hoon got me a VIP entrance into a Derby County football match back in 2000. And I liked Hewitt. Shame really.
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What is it with Socialists and the speed at which so many among them liken their opponent to vermin, like that councillor said of the Queen lately, indeed something I’ve seen socialist do so often. I assume the parallel is that vermin need to be exterminated. Sadly history is full of examples of Socialist regimes that did actually exterminate people it considered to be vermin.
Ralph, Sir, may I suggest you treat people you discourse with courteously, your comments reflect very badly on yourself and not at all on the person your launching your attacks on.
While on the subject of courtesy, it may help you to know that most Labour supporters consider themselves social democrats or democratic socialists. To constantly yolk them with Leninist or Marxist regimes is an old trick that looked stupid by the end of the 1930s (read Orwell).
Imagine I kept on comparing you, with your avowed Right wing affiliations, to Falangist Junta or Fascist movements. You might find that a bit impolite, n'est ce pas?
From a timing point of view:
Labour MPs vote in secret ballot and majority votes to ditch GB - that would now take until at least the end of next week to get through i.e. 15th Jan
Brown messes about for a few days and only goes by the end of the following week at the earliest i.e. 22nd Jan
Labour party leadership set out terms of new leader election and period for candidates to come forward - 31st Jan
"hustings" and postal ballot (during what might be the tail end of a appalling winter) will take up most if not all of February.
New PM then has a couple of weeks to draw up a budget (no chance) or call an election (no time to get a new manifesto drawn up).
Anew PM could delay the election until first week of June to buy time to make a mark. But that would near bankrupt the party if it has to fight a local then a general and the prospect of a further wipe out in local elections a few weeks before a general wouldn't be attractive.
So really, you are all out of time and I find it hard to believe H&H don't realise this. Hence my view that this is part of a campaign for the leadership by the Blairite wing post a Labour defeat in May.
Most probably
But they miscalculated. If anything the majority of the working Party (who are the most valued members in terms of being relied upon) will be disgusted by the Blairite group. Additionally more of the Union support (it is beginning to develop further again) will be unified in ditching the Blairite composition completely.
Ironically the Blairite legacy, what is left of it, has destroyed it's own cause. Support across the Party will move towards Brown.
Of course the real damage is with the general public.
In any case this does not really affect me, it is just makes my case stronger than ever that the NEC is in incredible need of reform and that the Parrty needs to do what it should have done in 1997 and moderise itself whilst retaining it's centre left position and challenging the Tories on policy.
Poisoned chalices though, keep internal Labour party rules and make it near impossible to remove a bad leader like Brown. Or adopt similar rules to the Tories and potentially have a leader like Maggie removed before her time and then suffer the internecine warfare that comes with such an act.
Good luck either way.
So my country doesn't want a Labour government and hasn't for some time.
Perhaps you should see H&H as representative of the English voter and not isolated in their opinion?
An all English affair, what a marvellous dilivery there from Guy's oval end.
If you devolve power to Scottish and Welsh parliaments and hence have English MPs disenfranchised on non English matters you can hardly act surprised if the reverse eventually comes about i.e. Only English MPs voting on English matters.
With no natural majority amongst English voters for Labour that has a rather clear implication - Labour will find it incredibly difficult to ever govern England again, especially if the boundaries are redrawn to remove Labour's advantage.
You may not like this set of events Derek but you can hardly ignore the very likely possibility of them happening.
But the obvious question for you is if English voters don't want a Labour government why should Scottish and Welsh Labour MPs impose one on them?
The way things are going it would not surprise me if any country rejected all of the mainstream.
I think you should stand Guy. Give Portillo a call and ask him to stand too as he seems as unenthusiastic to do so as you.
Thanks but no, I prefer a career that allows me to use my intellect to its full extent and rewards me accordingly.
Politics does not meet those requirements.
Portillo said something similar......
"Portillo said something similar...... "
I bow to his judgement then as he is completely correct.
If I look at a career from a position of wanting personal satisfaction, delivery and achievement, as well as intellectual interest, then working as I do in the private sector and improving business performance etc. is far more rewarding than politics could ever be.
Sadly for the governance of this country I think many people feel the same way as i do.
My primary concern, as it always has been, is the people of this country. As you and others know, I would much prefer a Labour government that actually worked for the people of this country, but it seems that ever since GB took over the reins we've had what could be one of the longest songs and dances seen in British politics since the 1930s. The time being dedicated to GB's position as leader is one thing, but each time we see a very inadequate response. GB bunkers down, enters and leaves through the back door when necessary and doesn't respond quickly and deliberately. What happens? The media go into overdrive, a group of self-serving individuals rush out to defend him and the real issues facing this country are lost.
And lets look at those real issues. Work is scarce for many. Much more than is officially on the unemployment figures. Its the hangover after the huge drinking session, I grant you, but many are unbelievably in debt. As I said, we're facing some of the worst weather we've had in a generation, people are struggling enough and now they're hit with missed days due to circumstances beyond their control. Pensioners with little contact with the outside world now have even less, and it costs a lot more than an extra £25 to heat their homes adequately for the week. So pensioners, as always, are suffering. Working people are suffering. And what do they see in response to this?
Well, what they're seeing is what they've seen in stereo for the past 2 years. The government and media completely engrossed in the employment status of one man. Fascinated by him, the media can't believe he's still in the job, but the politicians, what are they playing at? Is this some sort of sick game that must be played out every decade? Do these people actually understand what is going on in the country outside the heavily guarded walls of Parliament?
Andy Burnham's constituency is running out of grit for the roads, but then they would. Unfortunately Andy has splurged the budget on bribing the local electorate with some Murdoch media gold dust. It doesn't matter that people are being injured on the streets of the town, or that pensioners daren't venture outside for fear of falling on compacted snow that is rapidly turning to ice. As long as every household has a Sky dish, thats what really matters isn't it?
The majority of us know that GB is incompetent and has the social skills of a door hinge, but this issue is just another good day to bury bad news. Its a farce and during the summer months probably an entertaining one. Right now its proving just how disconnect central government is with the people of this country and how introverted it has become. Far more concerned with their own jobs than the welfare of the country and its people.
Another thing this has highlighted is just how quickly the woman who lobbied so hard for the smoking ban and was applauded for it can be demonised within a 24 hour period. Not by the fringe of the Party, not even by the media, but by the main players. GB's 'no more spin' machine seems to be set to full load and we're seeing more now of the backstabbing, ruthless and my personal favourite, the suck ups.
Anyone care to speculate why public confidence in the political establishment is at an all time low? I just can't put my finger on it.
Many of the policies you condemn Brown for were also the legacy of his predecessor. I am not defending any MP or the PM. But this is a Campaign Bill and no matter how justified you feel in condemning any political leader of any party does not detract from the stupidity of this attempted coup, which is exactly what it was.
Activists were out leafletting in the cold today Bill to find more problems coming their way.
A leadership contest would be too protracted now and like it or lump it unless you can manipulate the timestream Gordon Brown will take us into the General Election.
Neither Hewitt or Hoon were motivated by some noble motion, even Hoon's statement abour meeting Constituenct during Christmas was utter tosh, what did he do? Knock on doors on Christmas Day?
You don't campaign on Christmas.
The only thing they are concerned about is Andy Burnhams and Gordon Browns ability to weaken their positions further by interfering with the jobs they gained via Government contracts.
Bill I learnt a while ago there is very little bobility in Parliament. You may have noticed this trend lately.
As I said something has to change in this Party and fast and not just the leader after the General Election.
But I did hear one comment today from a journalist on R.4; rumblings about a change of leadership may be prevalent behind the scenes- but he though possibly no one would have the courage to come out and say it?
Whatever the views amongst MP's- it does seem very late in the day to make any radical changes.
I wonder what the general viewpoint of the public is- and what difference it would make if Gordon Brown was PM or someone else?
Certainly DC is not making any great headway I feel- I wonder what the perception is there too?
Will be taping Newsnight tonight for some feedback!
Maybe this will all fizzle out- or maybe there is more behind the scenes than is apparent? After all, we've had news of Charles Clarke,Polly Toynbee etc all voicing their doubts of late.
"The Hewitt and Hoon show"
Christine,
If you'll excuse my French, please, just what the bloody hell do Hoon and Hewitt think that they are doing?
Just at the moment when Mr Cameron is revealing himself for what he is - all things to all men - these two bananas step in and divert energies away from proper campaigning, for their own personal and self-indulgent reasons. Mr Cameron has changed his economic stance from "austerity" to "growth", he has had to revise his idea for mending our "broken society" (throwing money at married couples), and he has back-tracked on EMAs.
He has attracted criticism for the poster ("I'll cut the deficit") : (i) portraying the Tories as a one-man band/"presidential" style of leadership and (ii) a bit of creative artwork to make him look better.
Every Labour MP should be on the look-out now for chinks in Mr Cameron's armour, because he'll be revealing more and more of them.
The Blairites had their chance in the middle of 2007 to provide a candidate to lead the Party. They didn't take it, but have done nothing except bitch and moan ever since. David Milliband tried a flanking attack with his Guardian article in 2008, but shied away when push came to shove. Enough is enough. For H & H to do this sort of thing, with a General Election five months away, at most, is reprehensible and makes a laughing stock of the Party. Especially so at this time, discipline and self-discipline is everything.
I do hope that you will share my message with H & H.
In the meantime, I wish you a Happy New Year and hope to see you at the GC/All member meeting on 15 January.
Sincerely,
Peter Barnard
It would seem that is too much to ask.
Actually scrap that, it's only the minority. I have to tell myself that......
The ability for you to identify with the values of the Labour Party should not rest on the actions of others. This business of mine began with the flaws of MP's and this is just athe latest manifestation of a culture of greed in the Houses of Parliament, it is by no means limited to the Lanbour Party alone.
It is another example of MP's responding against their own party as a result of their highly dubious private interests.
We have to remember there are MP's like John Mann who are not as bad and even good ;)
However the reason I want to see changed with the NEC is to ban MP's using their elected seats to become corrupt and to declare any interests. In other words MP's cannot abuse thier position and have their party policy interests replaced with a single companies interests.
You do not have to keep telling yourself anything about anyone. Your own conduct does you credit and others (including me) are inspired by it.
MP's are not titans they are human and you are the equal to any of them. Interms of conduct you are probably lightyears beyond many of them too ;)
Ho ho! They were very sneaky about this, it did not just surprise me though, it surprised quite a few MP's too.
Utter madness.
I have been warning people about these selfish morons in the PLP, maybe now people will realise we have to do something.
Reform the NEC!!!!!!!!
Can somebody tell me why I've bothered delivering leaflets in the freezing cold? Why are we bothering while they are tearing themselves apart like infants? I'm losing heart.
You're fine. This will pass, I'll be delivering some of my own soon. Focus on the job don't be distracted by people who are unqualified to be in the Party and have absolutely no sense of strategy and timing or in effect any real political ability to note.
You are a credit to the Party ;)
Max Sceptic :-)
Labours best chance is to accept that they will lose the GE, to take this opportunity to get rid of the cabinet who are inept at best, and appoint decent politicians like Frank Field to cabinet positions. The problem here is that there really aren't enough decent, honest or able Labour MP's who are household names available to select a new cabinet!
Regarding Brown, allowing him to lead Labour to the GE will be about as effective as giving a certain A Choudary the post of head of PR. Both are equally hated by the British public, and for good reason!
Choudray just talks about ruining the UK. Brown is a man of action.
National debt at 61% of GDP and rising, the worst rate in history. A recession that Gordon and his troop of bafoons try to deny any responsibility for. Not long after bragging that he had ended boom and bust. We are not stupid. We do not forget!
The difference with Gordon Brown and Anjem Choudary is that Gordon Brown claims to be serving the British public.
The one common denominator with all of the Labour MP's comments when attacking Hoon and Hewitt is this. It does not help the LABOUR PARTY. It is all too evident that whether or not Gordon Brown's leadership damages the country is completely irrelevant. It is the common theme today with Labour. They put the interests of Labour above those of the country. They wish to remain in power for their own personal gain.
I would be whole heartedly ashamed of myself if I were to vote for this party of charlatains and traitors. They personify all that is rotten with politics today.
Mugabe and co must be laughing at this country. We accuse him of being a tyrant, and yet next to Gordon Brown and his front bench, Mugabe is quite saintly.
I guess the irony was lost on you...
As George Bush Jnr. would say, they misunderestimated Gordon Brown. The man is a coward and a charlatan who has failed in his primary duty, to serve the British people. For all the wrangling and whispers, GB isn't overally bothered any more and you can see it clearly when he makes one of his 'passionate' speeches. His New Year message lacked dignity, using the opportunity to score cheap party political points instead of doing what he should have, emphasised with the struggle ahead for the average working person.
Apologies to those who think I'm being too blunt, but GB's reaction to numerous important issues recently has all but turned my head away from politics, certainly on a national level. When the subject arises in conversation, I steer towards the drinks cabinet. How can a once solid political party be reduced to cheap gimmicks, outright lies and essentially bribing voters in certain areas? Either that or Andy Burnham is paying for free Sky HD boxes for his constituents out of his own pocket? Not likely when he claims bathrobes and rugs on his expenses account.
Anyway, it probably won't amount to much, this last minute leadership question, but it has already had the desired effect. It has destabilised an already unstable platform and shown every would-be Labour supporter who is important to the Labour Party during one of the coldest periods in a generation. Well done those men and women at the top, your traditional Labour voters aren't able to leave their homes due to the weather. The self-employed among them are losing wages by the day with no let up on the day to day bills. The old have limited access to meals on wheels, they're scared to have the heating on for too long and they can't get out to in their communities to have their usual contact with everyone.
Meanwhile the Labour Party squabble and spend millions on unnecessary vanity advertisements, then a bit more on threatening advertisements. And you wonder where the modern day Labour Party are going wrong?
Before anyone pipes up with the usual about me being negative or who needs the Conservative party when I'm doing such a good job of being so negative, take a good hard look closer to home. Many here know the lengths I would have gone to in order to secure Labour a 4th term, but the behaviour and attitude of those in the positions of so-called power has thoroughly disgusted me over the past 2 years and the simple fact that even if GB loses the General Election, he will still get his golden handshake whilst the country is all but in ruins sort of says it all.
Nice to see the internet still works in Manchester.
Personally I think 'realistic' is probably a better description than 'negative'.
It's only negative if it distorts the facts. The facts unfortunately beggar belief.
Good to see you're still alive and kicking Bill.
There is a lot behind this recent action to rid the Party of GB.
The reason you mention is one of them.
The two authors of this are already standing down, I suspect either they got rumbled by the their constituences over expenses and contracts, they therefore had nothing to lose and have no interest in a Labour Victory after the election.
In fact they will need good links to Government to keep their jobs with Boots etc and may well have made a secret deal with the Tories after the general Election, maybe not. It may well be that they have planned to try and win an election so that they can keep therr "special" jobs should Labour be relected.
One thing is for certain Cahrles Clarke has finally found some allies willing to speak out for him/with him.
At this stage of the game Labour loses whatever happens, even if they shed Brown (not a speedy process) with just over a few months to go before the election no human leader can be readied for the General Election.
The existing Ministers, as I have already said have too much baggage and the only chance would be the emergence of a leader who has the support of the Unions and can compromise/meet consensus with the centre of the Party.
There are one or two who can do this and actually increase our chances of winning in terms of funding, but the liklihood of such a person succeeding when the cohorts are all right wing and corrupt is negligable.
Love him or hate him, I think we have made our bed and as you stated some time ago better to win/hung/lose with dignity than to have this kind of nonesense going on on the verge of an elections by people who made themselves filthy rich and have no concerns for the work and effort invested so far by the volunteers and activists across the country.
.. but it’s academic if Gordon’s not going to resign.. it’s suicide to try to evict him
Agreed ;)
I don't either but the idea of the other lot having the Labour Party worries me even more!
Oh dear, did I touch a nerve?
You don't want an election now because you will lose; but then you will also lose in May/June. Why prolong the agony?
No you did not lol!
That really will be the day ;)
I know how much your tawdry leader is so desperate for power and I love to see his frustration!
It certainly looked as if I touched a nerve by your very strong reaction.
Calm down dear; thus is only a blog. However, I see that Brown has bottled it again and not taken up the challenge. Hoon and Hewitt are quite right - things can't go on like this.
Really lol
You display your feeble interpretation of events in politics with your feeble assessment of others feelings.
You cannot even rely upon your own puns you have to take them from your equally discredited leaders kindergarten style manifesto and from the gibberings of the two right wing sados who have more in common with you than with the majority of the Labour Party.
Gordon did not face the fight hahahaha, that is because there was no would be leader to challenge him, Sungei it take two to tango, not one.
Your position as a debater is not even remotely challenging and my strong reaction as you just about manage to grasp is enthusiasm as as I love to challenge Tories even less challenging rodents like yourself ;)
I usually focus my debates with Guy because as Tories go he is a challenge at times, but you are small-fry, I suggest you visit a childs blog site, one that can teach you how to tell one emotion apart from another and how to calaculate how many politicians it takes for a leadership challenge (you may have to rely on your fingers to count).
Have a lovely morning deary....;)
If you are such a superlative debater why do you have to descend into personal abuse - it can only think it is because I touched a nerve as I said in an earlier post. What other explanation can there be as you have such a great debating skills?
You are of course quite right on one point - there was no heir apparent to challenge Brown. What a pathetic situation where New Labour are unable to find anyone who can take on someone who is as incompetent at his job as Brown. If he was a leader and in command of his party then there would not be all these challenges and mutinies every few months. Some of the main members of his Cabinet dammed him last night with such faint praise and lack of enthusiasm that they might just as well have kept quiet.
I assume your description of "two right wing sados" refers to Hoon and Hewett; were you saying anything of that nature about them when they were Cabinet members or in Hoon's case Chief Whip? Again though you are quite right, they have always been "sados" they were members of a Government that has done more to wreck the British economy than probably any other in history.
There was, I believe, a widespread assumption that our constituency MP would achieve his aspiration to lead the Tories, as the popular candidate amongst the party membership, but he was rejected by the MPs in the qualifying polls because of his Europhilism. The two candidates who went before the party were therefore Davis and Cam'ron. Sorry, who?
You used to term "dearie" to be antagonistic because you believed that you had hit a nerve.
You were gloating because of this.
You came onto this site to gloat at the problems you perceived in the Labour Party who you descibed as" Rats" and " has beens".
You like the medicine when it comes your way do you Sunge?
So here is some more, I am not that great a debater, you are a terrible debater.
You are now contradicting your own initial argument by commenting on the lack of a leadership contender after failing to recognise this was a problem in the first place. I guess you have learnt to count using your fingers and for this I am grateful as Tories tend to find ecvolution of any kind very difficult indeed, which of course brings be onto your leader and why your Party dare not say anything he has not sanctioned because unlike him they cannot adapt and as a result do not agree with a word that comes out of his mouth, unless they have the name Hannan.
So go and think about what you are going to say before making such a clumsy assault which has only been undermined by your own useless commentry. You are better at destroying your own credibility and do not need my help.
As for Hoon and Hewitt, I have been saying it for years. But Tories again, are not renowned for their listening skills are they? Well that is ok neither are the two MP's in question.
At no time did I mention the word "dearie". I did say "Calm down dear; this is only a blog" You may recognise this as a play on the Michael Winner TV advertisement for car insurance. A rather poor attempt perhaps at humour. Certainly not a gloat.
If I were to reply to you in kind I would now be questioning your reading ability - but that would be much too childish.
I think James of the Right has put things rather well in his last posting but then he is probably not a supporter of Brown either.
Wrong people - disaffected former ministers who just look personally aggrieved
Wrong method - this isn't constitutional
Right outcome? That is up to Brown. If it really is the case that the Party would do better without him, then I hope he will choose to go. Frankly, the Tories have shown themselves to be a duplicitous shower although in some ways, a small Tory majority or minority will show them up for what they really are
I just can't believe that two supposedly experienced politicians could possibly think this could achieve anything positive. Cretins
No we use this to get up and dust ourselves down. The interests of Hoon and Hewitt as senior parasites at Boots has been released.
They are Tories at heart and must be prevented from helping the Tories win the General Election.
How do you know? There may be some boy/girl even now sharpening their pencil to reveal all.
We did not know about John Major's indiscretion until Edwina spilled the beans. Anyway, things in JM's private life are not comparable to Brown's dishonesty about reasons for not calling an election in 2007.
I did include in the list of those fighting, NuLiebore as well as assorted lefties. You may be correct that "you couldn't get a tram ticket between the buttocks of Blairites and Brownites" (not that I would want to try) but I agree that they are all a gaggle of "washed up old has beens".
What we need is a general election now so we can get rid of the whole sorry shower.
No we don't. We want to show the electorate how many more times you can try and sell the ideas we have already implimented in your crap, cheap and shallow manifesto, which Sungei is as manifestly pointless as you and your party are.
At least people in our Party have "opinions" and "views" your sorry silent losers are not even aloud to speak with all the diatribe that dribbles from David "I don't know who I am" Camerons mouth because we know you do not agree with a word of it.
No policies of substance from a sad outdated party stuck in a polling rut because they are as usual empty and boring.
And as for Tories not agreeing with what comes out of Cameron's mouth- look to your own relationship with your leaders. ID cards, wars, EU betrayal, PFI:- on and on it goes. If you didn't campaign against those at the time, you're no better than the Tories you villify.
Best to let it appear that the government is getting on with its job rather than being distracted by a couple of malcontents with very little Party support.
Give me an example of where Sir John Major bottled it like Brown did about calling an election in 2007. Brown then went on to lie about it saying it was nothing to do with the polls.
Brown not only lacks backbone he is also not very honest.
major gave into his back benchers time and again. On loads of occasions we lost the vote and spent most of his time fending off leadership challenges, and he told one very serious lie to his wife did he not?
Major was undoubtedly the weakest, most nerdish PM and was often the subject of humour.
GB is unpopular but at least he keeps his tinkle to himself and his own wife.
Having said that, I agree that the mind boggles at the very thought....
Yes Jeff. And Brown was the most dispossessed of all of them.
An even bigger nail in the NuLiebore government coffin. Role on May/June.
If Brown had any guts like Major, when he was in a similar position, he would call his opponents bluff and stage a ballot as Hoon/Hewitt are suggesting. But, as you well know, he does not have the guts. He can write about courage in other people but has shown little of it himself - like when he bottled it in 2007.
The really sad thing Sungei, is that this is NOT a group of "assorted lefties". You are actuially talking about a gaggle of washed up old has-been Blairites, which is as far right as Labour has ever got, all trying to destroy the man they see as seeing of their beloved Fuehrer, who is just as right-wing. In gtruth you couldn't get a tram ticket between the buttocks of Blairites and Brownites. They took the Labour party to the right, and now they are like a couple of dogs fighting over who is going to get the bone. All the in-fighting between these "caring" and "Labour" supporting MPs like Hoon, Hewitt, Pur-nell, Clarke et al is really a fight about nothing - about the miniscule talent of a heap of crypto-Tories
Major had guts? hahahahahaha the back benchers walked all over him. You have no sense of history, but do not worry Tories and treachery go together like strawberries and cream, I mean it is only the Tory's in our party who are betraying it's principles, Tories, just like you ;)
Anything that affects the ability of Hewitt or Hoon to make money at our expense as taxpayers, public sector workers and also as competitors in the private sector is "unprogessive", it is not "modern", it is "backward-thinking".
They of course abuse the term as they seek more money from the private sector to enrich themselves and make sure their tribe remains entrenched in the party, if indeed they cannot move the party into the Right completely.
They have shown they have no respect for the Rules of the Labour Party time and again and behave exactly like arrogant Tories to whom the rules and laws are mere inconveiences to them, the ruling class.
These people have done more harm to the party and brought the idea of "New" Labour into disrepute. It is going to be very difficult in the future for our Party to display any credibility with the private sector thanks to these charlatans, whose interests harm our country and our economy.
Milliband, Purnell, Hoon, Hewitt the list goes on.
How can we renew our party when these people have displayed the most selfish and ignorant behaviour with no thought of the future of the Party only an obsession with greed, the kind of greed that exceeds that of the majority and is not sustainable economically or environmentally.
They bring ridicule to any Labour Party ideal as they live in contradiction to absolutely everything we stand for.
'It is going to be very difficult in the future for our Party to display any credibility with the private sector thanks to these charlatans, whose interests harm our country and our economy.'
The boards of non-exec directors and remuneration committees have revealed themselves to be equally ineffective and incompetent. I think that Hoon and Hewitt would fit in quite well there. I have obviously been a very, very immoral person in my life because my constituency's MP is the other (Tory) Clarke who has held numerous non-exec directorships including in BAT. When the CBI and more especially the ID castigate the government, my immediate reaction is a vision of pots and kettles.
In terms of Pots and kettles I agree to an extent, but the importance of ruling a country and being able to change and imrove legislation requires a certain element of seperation for the sakes of fairness, uniformity and legitimacy. Blind sycophancy improves nothing and brings both company and party, and to an extent democracy into further disrepute.
The latter at this time, is the very last thing this country needs.
Our establishment as a result, are doing all they can to eliminate hope, confidence and industry, the very things needed to climb out of recession.
Recessions cannot afford corruption as people will look at their "role models" in power and think that anythink goes when it comes to self-enrichment, including crime.
I have written to Tony Lloyd, the Chairman of the Parliamentary Labour Party, to support Geoff Hoon's and Patricia Hewitt's proposal for a secret ballot of the Parliamentary Labour Party."
No Charlie - YHOU DON'T SAY!
"I'm ready for my close-up now Mr DeMille"
Quite agree,the only lucid sentence you have produced for some time.A clowns show indeed it is...stuffed with tedious Scottish MPs voting on matters in England that do not affect their constituents in the slightest.
No worries buddy!
I over-reacted. Was busily making my Hewitt dartboard but the bullseye is too big.
If you need any help making it you can count me in!
It is absolutely clear that Brown does not have the confidence of the PLP. Nor the electorate. How can he, as both have been denied the opportunity to vote for or against him? For anything. Or the Referendum promised to the people - but denied them.
"@shamikdas
the idea of a secret ballot, a secret f***ing ballot of 352 people to decide the fate of the PM?! This is Britain!"
Yup - not one single person, let alone 352, voted for Gordon Brown, and YOU went along with it. This IS Britain. Brown's Britain.
@ Geraldine Smith MP
"A secret ballot is a coward's charter..this is a small group of people...they've been pulling these stunts for a year...I'm extremely disappointed"
A secret ballot being everyone's right in this country - obviously except for the Labour rabble masquerading as the PLP.
@TomBage
"Miliband, Mandelson, Darling or Straw. If you have the bloodlust, now's your chance."
Too late TomBage, they haven't got any Ed Balls between them!
@Shaun Woodward
"This is a school yard campaign. I'm 100% behind Gordon Brown because he's done a superb job."
Clearly, because he gave a rich toff with many homes and a butler a big Cabinet job for selling out his party and deserting to Labour. That's worth 100% support isn't it?
@jessica_asato
"I am at a loss for words. The time for complaining was June. Not now."
@Jessica_Asato "My money is on never"
How many goes does Jessica have?
Yadda Yadda Yadda.
Brown is sinking and dragging all those around him down into the swamp.
His lifelong ambition to lead this country was founded on hubris, arrogance, bullying and incompetence. A leader needs followers. Nobody followed.
Let the chop be swift and painless.
I think it could go either way.
It could go either way Ralph; but a slight possibility of clearing the air once and for all.(although bound to be very messy and painful.)
I do share your misgivings though- only time will tell.
Yes,
The expenese, government contracts and corruption are issues of contention within and outside the Houses of Parliament, not just on Blog sites!
Personally I think GB should have stuck with Darling and the Millibands and got rid of the rest of the Cabinet.
You cannot underestimate how greedy some of these MP's have become, they really are completely oblivious to anything that does not involve a camera or a £ sign.
It is sad but that is why we need to improve our party ;)
Those advocating a pro-market stance have proven to be very dubious in their handling of the Market and clearly very untrustworthy also.
But as I have said, time and again, these peope will continue to hurt our party even after the expenses because they are incapable of realising the difference between right and wrong and keep getting away with it, again, again and again.
When will we learn? This is our fault for not having the courage to defend what is right and blindly trusting in people who fail us.
We cannot afford to do this, as you look at this site now the Tories are head over heals in laughter.
So am I creating this problem or are the naughty MP's?
That is why i want the NEC reformed and as time goes on my case, my argument is clearly becoming overwhelming.
However- this does come a cross as a possible Blairite rebellion; maybe there is a big split in the party?
It's a gift to the tories and those little rocking bracelets seem to be backing Cameron.
Take your word on these "Derek Statistics"- I'm livid at all this, and while I'm not a Ballsite either (sounds like something else, don't you think?) his appraisal is roughly one I agree with.
I thought Brown demolished Cameron. My Tory friends otherwise. But Iain Dale, Michael White, and and George Jones agreed with me on the fact that Brown's performance was very competent "by his standards" (they annoying added!)
Michael White, the editor and Liberal? Hmmmm
Shively! Blair and Cameron luv the PR stuff, you know! the Camera is on Cameron type of thing but Hey ho! politics is about policies and delivering not grandstanding and cash waving.
Our people in Scotland, are impatient, Westminster is a clowns show and back stabbing acts are tedious.
I know that emotions get heated, but downright rudeness "I don't do"
sorry
I am sure his is very pleasant, there are not many MP's who do not come across as pleasant ;)
They are MP's, it is there job to be sociable ;)
But there real agendas are determined by their actions Hazico.
Would you love a murderer or a theif because they were pleasant, well mannered and supported education?
You have to look at what they do and how they vote. It's not on the surface, it's what is deep down and real.
Without these two cabinet ministers making their view known the plot falls. Is Ed willing to sacrifice himself short term for his Bro?
What ever happens this will further undermine New Labour because they are clearly far more concerned about their own backsides than the current mess which they have embroiled the UK in.
"Pat Hewitt's been raking it in from the private sector using her contacts book. This is going nowhere; it'll be over by the end of the day. Hoon has sour grapes because he didn't get the gravy train European job -- I'd like to take him into a backroom an sort him out personally. They're two pompous idiots."
John Mann one of the most sincere and honest MP's in Parliament and currently my favorite!
It will probably cause a dramatic split; but I do think people need to come clean, once and for all.
Must go now- hopefully back briefly this eve or tomorrow.I would like to have spent more time today though, reading through all the excellent articles and comments- certainly very dramatic and unprecedented.
Good luck.
However- stranger things have happened in history- so anything is possible!
Only have brief time on here today- off sledging in the snow with my son!!
I agree completely, I do not support this foolish move.
But I want to be ready just in case!
I just think there's a danger with blogging misunderstandings can occur.Sometimes it helps just to step back every now and then.
I'm also aware there are the odd inflammatory comments thrown in by people who just want to stir things up.
I think a lot of us on here have a lot of common ground, even if expressing things differently- and we should stand together!
It certainly sounds like a hell of lot is on the cards pre election, and stuff of debate!
All best, Jo.
If a leadership selection goes ahead (heaven forbid) and I do not want this to happen, as a result of the ballot i have informed JC I would support him.
Why?
It would be a terrific boost against the BNP so I am being selfish here.
He probably will he has not taken any affirmative action in reference to this event.
I condemn this event, but if it happens you can't just carry on condemning the past can you?
JC supports GB completely and has been totally loyal, please do not get the wrong idea Dave.
Could you verr very hard left this time and then pull off the steering wheel just to remove any chance of correcting course for, erm, 30 years?
Hoon talking about fairness is like Attilla the Hun apologising for all his rape and pillage. As for Hewitt.....
This is the Blairite wing trying to look good and give Meddlesome even more kudos by saving Gordon and as part of the deal Ed Balls will be told to wind his neck in .. The PLP needs to be cleaned out and reformed, they are no more effective than a bag of fighting cats. The only answer is for the membership (the few left) to ask the NEC for control of their party back as the PLP is set on heading lemming like for the cliff edge.
Hoon and Hewitt are no Brutus or Cassius the real question is just what is Mandelson playing for, he is most certainly behind this somewhere?
Unity in the PLP - bah!
This is very very serious for Brown.
On the one hand the ballott might clear the air once and for all; on the other it might flare things up too much.
It does seem to be a last ditch attempt, and very dramatic.
The timing is bad, but then again something good might come out of it.This should have all happened long ago.
I also wonder if there is a Blairite rebellion going on here(including from media sources like Polly Toynbee?)
In the long term I agree Gordon has had a great difficulty communicating the messages from the party.But on the other he has made great acheivements on the economy and the world stage.
But the harsh fact is the party does need a leader who has a combination of toughness and substance, as well as an ability to communicate that is crystal clear to the public.
Judging by the recent performance of DC's proposed manifesto- the opportunity to win is there for the taking!
We need experienced politicians to step forward and keep things as calm as possible- otherwise will play straight into the hands of the opposition.
Apologies for yesterday. Bad day.
The fact that came out today seems a little too far fetched to be mere coincidence. This seems like a much wider revolt than it appears on the surface.
Though I sympathise with your sentiments, I really do! Brown is really a mere representation of the PLP itself. On the one hand he is self serving by protecting the people he and to an extent, Tony placed there special friends in. To me he is just being representative of the moral composition of the majority of MP's in the Party, if not in the House.
The ensuing panic is clearly from MP's whose seats are not enjoying as much support and they will become bolder and angrier as the easy ride is about to end for them
How many MP's are actually concerned about the poor elderly freezing this winter at the moment?
How many Mp's are standing up and saying "Forget it we have to support our activists and the work they have done for free"?
How many MP's are speaking on behalf of constituents in the House?
That of course will hurt us, because during these hard times and after the expenses people will be very unimpressed by pretty much anything MP's do that is not perceived to be in their interests in some material form. It may satisfy a sense of revenge in getting rid of Brown, but many of the people involved are only marginally less disliked and certainly not supported as potential New Labour New Tony or New Brown!
The public would want a substantial replacement they can quickly identify with and I don't think we have miracles in the bag.
Brown will not of course go without an incredible fight.