By Peter Mandelson
First, let me make something clear. In government what matters above all else is not what you say but what you do. That is why Gordon, Alistair and myself have been, with our colleagues, working around the clock to put in place the measures we need to get through this downturn in the best and fairest way.
People remain, of course, worried about their jobs and homes but they see, I believe, that their government is doing whatever it takes to protect them. Unlike the Tories who, to coin a phrase, plan to “do nothing”.
Soon, Barack Obama will announce a fiscal stimulus that will further underline quite how isolated the Tories are. He, like us at today's jobs summit, is making jobs and investment the priority - you can read in detail about his approach here. Yet the Tories reject the action that is required to ensure that this downturn is shorter and shallower than it otherwise would be, and, as Yvette said last week, they are proposing the “economic madness” of spending cuts in a recession.
This message - that their response is inadequate and amounts to nothing - and that their judgement is flawed is one that we will, rightly, be repeating in the months to come.
Voters know that it is right to plan and invest for the upturn: ensuring that future jobs and growth come from new innovations in areas such as environmental technology, high-tech manufacturing and the creative industries. I am glad that, at least when it comes to the latter, the Labour party itself is now moving to the forefront of new media and online campaigning. I am glad to be a part of that, even if it is with my tongue in my virtual cheek.
I have blogged before, when I was a European Commissioner at the WTO Doha Ministerial meeting in Geneva last July, and I enjoyed it. But in this, my first UK political blog, I want to say something about how we get our message out in these modern times. Because the world has changed since 1997. Now, no-one has been more identified with message and campaigning discipline than myself, something that makes me rather proud, I have to say, because, during the 1980s, I saw the Labour party repeatedly let down its voters by failing to win the battle with the Tories and the media. Back then we were in hand-to-hand combat with an almost universally hostile press but sometimes we were our own worst enemy.
This must, of course, never happen again, and so we will still need loyalty and discipline, and that crucial other component, focussed, hard work. But when it comes to new media we have to recognise that the days of command and control are over. Instead we need to learn to embrace and engage. That is why I am writing this blog and will be at LabourList's launch blogger’s breakfast on the 12th February. It is also why I will be returning here to respond to your comments in the days to come.
So, in the spirit of openness and, dare I say it, comradeship, let the conversation continue!

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If labourlist is admitting that it is just a 'glossy mag' to publish official proclamations and publish positive praise for them, thats fine - make it explicit and you can be left to preach to the convertd.
More details here:
http://bastardoldholborn.blogspot.com/2008/11/hazel-blears.html
There are at least four unelected ministers- Vadera, Drayson, Mandelson and now Davies. That is not simply undemocratic, it is anti-democratic.
The reasons given in each case amount to the benefits of having someone with that experience in the Government, but the fact that no-one in the Parliamentry party is considered suitable says all you need to know.
He seems a definite improvement on that Gordon Brown chappy, of whom we hear so little these days. He must be absolutely distraught that his ex cabinet have been so keen to associate themselves with their new leader.
Can I also applaud the work of Mr Derek Draper whose tireless efforts have finally created a blog that allows the opinions of disgruntled Labour voters to be heard by the Labour government. Before we had to post comments on other websites that weren't given the exposure of a Channel 4 News Launch. But now, our grievances and uncensored views will be visible to all and perhaps it will give some food for thought to those lucky politicians who have yet to expereince the bitter taste of electoral failure. At least I am assuming that is why the party I used to vote for come across as so arrogant.
The Penguin
What sort of classless society is New Labour building where a poor flightless bird can be so blatantly discriminated against because his fish only diet makes him a bit smelly? Oh Brave New Labour World, that has such people in it.
The Penguin
Frankly Labour is copying the Tories again and again on a variety of issues - tax, healthcare (e.g. NHS constitution), housing (help for first time buyers), flexible working (for parents with older children). And it's ridiculous.
Cheers
Labour dare not listen. Labour 'policies' don't stand up to scrutiny, that is why this blog will fail. That is why you will never see substantial responses to questions posed here.
Blogs are two way - whereas this is like one of those nasty glossy 'magazines' that local councils spend our money on and shove through our doors, full of self-praise and never touched by reality.
'Prime Minsters Question Time' should be renamed to 'Prime Ministers Answers Time' - to remind the useluess oaf what he is supposed to be doing there - Labour have no answers.
Not all tory policies are good, some are a bit duff -- you can tell which ones, they are the ones that Labour steal. However, as creators of the policy at least the Tories understand why it was created and what it is meant to acheive, so they would be well placed to modify the policy (as requried) to ensure that it does deliver.
However when labour steal a policy and implement it they have no idea of the logic and reasoning behind it -- they won't recongise when it needs adjustment, and wouldn't know how to adjust it anyway.
Classic New Labour. All gong. No dinner.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5504673.ece
Gordon Brown bounce fades as Conservatives return to huge poll lead
Voters were far less pessimistic about their own prospects than those of the general economy
Peter Riddell
The Conservatives have regained a double-figure lead over Labour as Gordon Brown’s bounce from his handling of the banking crisis has faded.
The latest Populus poll for The Times, undertaken over the weekend, will calm jitters in the Tory high command. In a surprise twist, the poll also finds that voters are much less pessimistic about their own economic prospects over the coming year than they are about the economy as a whole.
The Conservatives have risen four points since early December to 43 per cent, with Labour down two points at 33 per cent. The Liberal Democrats also down two at 15 per cent and other parties remain on 9 per cent
Can I ask… do you think that with your track record and the fact that you have been returned to the top of government as a Lord devalues politicians and politics.
Asked by a floating voter who is considering change simply for the sake of it.
Global Warming has been replaced by 'Climate Change'.
(Didn't you see Party Directive #233/ENN/2008 - Propaganda Unit SSGB ?)
No, it is an excellent way for the State to impose new laws and taxes.
All hail ze Nu Labour fascist surveillance state!
Can we please have another pointless taxpayer draining war again? How about Iran? You know you want to.
So what about Oleg, eu tarrifs and the yacht? - Osborne published a complete account, and he isn't even a minister.
Also, the Standard says that your published accounts of income over the past decade or so cannot account for you affording your current house (£2.5 million).
Unless it is overwhelmingly in the public interest for this information to be with held, you are obliged my the ministerial code to disclose it.
Are you familiar with the words 'openness' and 'transparency'?
I look forward to your publication of this information - just post it here as a reply.
Thanks
Most of the ideas that the Tory front bench have come up with in the last few years are nothing more than minor tweaks and faddish political fashion slavery.
As far as the Tories running rings around Labour, that was six months ago. The Tories lead has been shrinking and nothing they've done so far has managed to turn that around.
So no, the current Labour government is the one I'm happy to see in government now and would be even happier to see in government for a fourth term.
Next it'll be the "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" argument, which is equally fatuous.
You believe that? Well, that probably accounts for the whole pitiful series of 'packages' and 'measures' and 'pledges' and 'promises' your party continues to crow about.
Presumably this site was set up to stop the drift of traditional Labour voters to the extreme right, by AGAIN telling them about all the great things you've all achieved in the last, what, 12 years?
I believe your Govt has NO chance whatever in fixing this economic mess. You're all utterly clueless about making money, you only know how to spend it and never in the right places.
You can bash the Tories as much as you like and plenty will here for sure but it won't help any.
GC
Can you please blog something about new power technologies and how the innovative nature of the UK population is going to be utilised to put us at the forefront(we are pretty much nowhere at the moment).
I would also like to know what time frame the Government has in mind to achieve a fibre to home network for every UK citizen, or has the responsibility already been allocated to the private sector....It is an issue of national security and global competitiveness.
The Ranting Penguin = Guido
Arnie
'Efficiency is Waste'
'Fairness is Unjust'
'Debt is Prosperity'
Would you care to comment on this article on Michael Meacher's blog on the Lloyds TSB money-laundering scandal?
http://www.michaelmeacher.info/weblog/2009/01/when_will_the_criminal_executi.html
Please do not say that firmer regulation will be being put in place - I have read the PM's Mansion House speeches of 2006 & 7, in which he specifically singles out the light hand of regulation as a major factor in the "success" (my quotes) of the City Of London
To the layman, this looks to be a case of one law for the influential, and one for everyone else. Why are we no longer able to hold those in office accountable when they mess up, or break the law?
I am sure the man who got a criminal record, as a result of leaving his bin lid 4" open, would like an answer to the above as well.
They have a system, we have a system. You might not be 100% happy with our system but Lord Mandelson has been appointed accoding to the rules of that system and as a result has every right to be there.
Any household when presented with reduced income and hard times spends less and more wisely. There is enormous waste and bloat in the State sector. Taxes do not fall and spending is maintained, yet everyone else, all the real people outside of the state sector have to cut back. It is obscene.
The Tory cuts are laughable, but not because they are cutting down increases, but because they do not cut enough - an order of magnitude too little, in fact.
Bringing forward Crossrail spending is a sensible investment, however - for why have money spent at the beginning of the project not yielding a return for a decade? Better to increase the per annum spending to complete the project earlier so the economy can make use of it sooner. However, VAT cuts are madness, better to cut Corporation tax so domestic companies can survive and keep people employed or cut income tax across the board by raising personal allowances. Your "tax credits" are social engineering bribes, btw. Damnable.
Dolly looked a mess. He is the 'picture', the outward manifestation of the Dorian Gray-like decay that has eaten out the innards of the NuLabour 'project' and its awful, immoral government.
I guess that makes Peter, with his unsullied good looks and Moroccan tan, Mr (or rather Lord) Gray himself.
Two pubs nearest us closed before Christmas. Indeed, the ludicrously severe nature of the "we know what's best for you, little people" smoking ban, was, as with so much NL policy, not thought through.
Result - five pubs closing a day, more and more unemployed people and a SIGNIFICANT loss in tax revenue.
DOH. I'm not a smoker, but have no problem with a room for smokers; indeed, many old pubs had one in all but name anyway. But New Labour knows what is best, and we are here, after all, to serve the state.
If you want to attack the Conservative policy and convince people that yours is better, can I suggest that you start by describing the Conservative policy, why you think the Conservatives believe it will work, and why you think that they are wrong. Then you can outline your own policy, and why you think that will work. Then we might be getting somewhere. At the moment all we have is a lot of bluster and hot air instead of a real article or real debate.
To stir up a little debate, I'll make a simple suggestion. There is at least one massive, glaring problem in the Labour policy prescription at the moment. The underlying view is that we need to preserve the current economic model and our objective is to return the economy to where it was about 18 months ago. That fails to recognise that anything might have been wrong 18 months ago, that levels of borrowing and lending may have been unsustainably high 18 months ago, that we were collectively riding financial services far too hard 18 months ago, and that we were spending at unsustainable rates 18 months ago. Labour's current policy risks re-inflating all those asset bubbles again, leading to an inevitable crash all over again.
1) Labour seems to have run out of ideas, just like the Tories did in the 1990s.
2) Labour's got second-rate politicans in the Cabinet and even worse in the lower ministerial jobs - the same as happened to the Tories in the 1990s.
You've got to ask yourself - wouldn't it be better for the country if the Convervatives were in government for a while so that Labour can try to remember why it exists? There's no fresh ideas anymore, none at all. This is why the Tories are running rings round Labour - and Labour deserves it.
Not surprised, they don't even honour manifesto commitments.
Oh Well, even if it was in a Labour Manifesto it's not a real promise, is it?
It would be orderly, democratic- very engaging. I have some questions that I think some contributors would be extremely well placed to tackle. There are issues that I'd like clarified, but don't ever come up in the news and so never get commented on. That'd be head and shoulders above ConservativeHome, it'd be a two-way flow between the grassroots raising the topics important to us- the contributors tackling the topic- and the grassroots posting comments about it.
and i'd personally rather soemone with experience, respect from his department and an understanding of how government works than some bumbling brown nosing fool from either the blair or brownite camps
as for his politics whilst i am in avour of them anyone whos against them can surely see it is better to have someone that knows the department despite resigning twice than someone who hasnt a clue what is going on in a situation that demands immediate action
Cut some roses this morning. Still blooming, just have to get 'em before the frost does.
I suspect you know what I mean by "real people". Those outside your own rather insular and closeted bubble. Those with real problems, in the real world. Those who don't concern themselves with the likes of "real action in audience terms" or "virtual town meetings."
People, in other words, totally unlike you and your mates, on here attempting to demonstrate, so dismally, to we mere mortals, how incredibly clever you are.
Peter was actually appointed, not by the "current elected government", as you put it, but personally by the unelected Prime Minister.
You may recall, or not, that in your last Manifesto Mr Blair guaranteed to "serve", if that is the right word, a full term.
In other words, and, just for you Mr Paterson, in simple language: We wus pro-missed Brown wud nt be Prim Minster!
I confess that I expected, upon my return to this veritable Cave of Darkness and Deceit, to find that all my comments on this thread had been removed, completely, vanished into the eternal ether; not just consigned to the company of that valiant band of brothers who wear, with such pride, the distinguishing mark of the red cross.
I admit to surprise, therefore, that although some comments have been thus so presumptuously treated, others have been allowed to remain, for the viewing delight of those with the sense, and good taste, to tick the "view trash" box.
Accordingly, and with much regret, I wish to give you, Mr Draper, credit where credit is due.
Yet I find this new-found weakness of yours, this momentary dalliance with almost libertarian values, extremely worrying.
Kindly cease and desist this practice forthwith, and return to the essential NuLab, stalinist, top-down command and control, dissent-will-not-be-tolerated, 1984 mindset that we have so come to expect from you, and which we so applaud and value.
It's what you do and have done which will be the end of New Labour, and the time for me to crack open a bottle of Penfold's Grange and drink to your good riddance.
P.S. Peter - I voted Labour for the best part of 30 years.
Jobs summit-how many job losses have been announced today.
My question is-what are you doing to help manufacturing industry.We have for too long relied on Financial Services and other non manufacturing sectors to prop up
the economy.Are you going to do anything to help the companies that actually make things and support other manufacturing jobs throughout the country.JCB has laid off over 600 workers today,Nissan 1500 the other day.Are you going to let manufacturing go down the tubes completely or are you going to support,nurture and
expand our manufacturing base.If it is the later then you need to do it NOW.
Such fun watching New Labour putting the noose around its own neck!
PS, one of my pet hates is the phrase "real people" we use it in politics all the time (I've used it too) but it's an utterly meaningless phrase. It's generally fairly hard to speak to fictional people.
*coughs and points to self*
Peter,
I gather Brown announced this morning that he would be creating another 500,000 jobs; given that he announced the same in 2007, and has not yet done so, may I ask
1. Is this to be 500,000 NEW jobs, or simply - as often before - a re-announcement?
2. Will these be in the public sector? And if so, how will an ever-decreasing private sector pay for an ever-increasing public sector?
Thanks in advance for you answer, whci I await with baited breath?
Please spare us this stupid outrage.
C'mon Peter, that is false and you know it. Obama is making real tax cuts the centre of his proposals to get through the recession. He has proposed Tax cuts 10 times as big as the Tories have talked about! Labour cannot spend their way out of this recession.
"Yet the Tories reject the action that is required to ensure that this downturn is shorter and shallower than it otherwise would be, and, as Yvette said last week, they are proposing the “economic madness” of spending cuts in a recession."
That is also false. The Tories propose cutting waste, and wasteful proposals like ID cards. They also supported the bank bailout the reductions in interest rates and advocate £50b of bank lending guarentees.
You claim the Tories are the 'Do nothing' Party. Labour are the 'Do anything' party. Unfortunately for us all, that anything isn't working and will screw our long term prospects.
P.S. Glad you are going to take time out to read and respond to comments. One of the biggest failures of public figures who blog is not to do so. On that, I congratulate you!
In the meantime congratulations to those who have put together Labourlist, and I hope I am not censored!
Mark Seddon
I'm so pleased to hear that. I trust you'll be here with loads of evidence to disprove my claims about government efficiency. :o)
Yes and the Party who promised not tax rises a referendum on Lisbon , open and honest government , No Brown , etc. have shown that there is no connection between what they say and what they do . You were saying .....? That’s SAYING
That is why Gordon, Alistair and myself have been, with our colleagues, working around the clock to put in place the measures we need to get through this downturn in the best and fairest way.
What are you going top do , you do not export you do not produce you largely make things worse by over taxing and especially by building up a public sector burden that we cannot sustain quite aside form the regulatory burden on small business .
People remain, of course, worried about their jobs and homes but they see, I believe, that their government is doing whatever it takes to protect them. Unlike the Tories who, to coin a phrase, plan to “do nothing”.
This is a lie . Why are you repeating it , please explain ? Right now you are planning to copy direct tax payer underwritten loans to your Midlands friends in the car industry , copying Conservative Policy in a half hearted way. The VAT cut was a failure and the debt boom is not s cure but a symptom of downturn
Soon, Barack Obama will announce a fiscal stimulus that will further underline quite how isolated the Tories are. He, like us at today's jobs summit, is making jobs and investment the priority - you can read in detail about his approach here.
I `m sorry are you planning to cut the taxes of 90% of the population and start from where barrack Obamah does ? No? In which case what is the point of this ridiculous comparison ?
as Yvette said last week, they are proposing the “economic madness” of spending cuts in a recession.
Tax cuts must be funded we cannot sustain more debt . Why would spending in the non productive Public sector be a better idea than people spending their own money Do tell ? Why are you forcing us to get out al loan to finance your election prospects .?
Back then we were in hand-to-hand combat with an almost universally hostile press
What about the people who are not your comrade ?The Press is not hostile anyway. The BBC support Labour and the Papers are in a market to which entry is easy . Every man woman and child is free to buy the Mirror and the Guardian .
1) How long and deep would the recession have been/will it be, without the measures which the government has taken and is taking?
2) How long and deep will it be as a result of the measures which the government has taken and is taking>
(i.e. What difference do you expect all these things to make? I ask, because at the PBR the chancellor said the recession would end by July this year. He now hints it might last longer. Steps being announced today - not, of course, to Parliament - would not appear to be necessary if the economy is to revive by the end of this year.)
3) How will we know whether and to what extent the £12 billion cut in VAT has worked? What will have to be achieved to justify foregoing £12 billion of tax revenue?
I look forward to some answers!
Despite many comrades' obvious misgivings/concerns about some of his personal propensities, this blog post once again shows what a clear-headed visionary, and in the ultimate analysis a Party-lover, Peter is. Congrats, Peter!
The answer is to stop thinking about "getting our message out", and start thinking about "bringing people in". They are two fundamentally different ways of approaching the issue of political engagement. It's about accepting people into our ranks, especially when we disagree with them: not because the politics looks good, but because there's a larger ideological fight to be won. We need to accept that there are Labour supporters out there who opposed Iraq, who opposed 10p tax - but who are nonetheless an important part of our movement. As a concrete example - and I made this point to Derek - the facility to become a blogger on this site needs to be made far easier. I've sent a 'sign up' email, but still haven't had a response. It's lucky I'm a dedicated supporter - most other people would have moved on by now and found another forum for their ideas. These are the sort of small changes that can facilitate a new era of communication. Once we've built that fundamental framework, *then* we can start worrying about 'the message', etc.
No they don't. They see a government promising something it cannot possibly deliver. "Protect them, by whatever it takes"? How? Pay their mortgage? Guarantee them a comfortable income for life? "Helping hard-working families"? What help? Someone to do the housework? Mow the lawn? Run the kids to school? It's all candyfloss - and you know it.
Good question!
"Attempts to create left-wing websites have foundered in the face of Labour's refusal to tolerate dissent or criticism, a key requirement for success in the free-flowing world of the Internet"
I suspect will raise a smile with anyone who has ever attempted to post a dissenting opinion on that particular site.
On a more serious note, you mentioned both Obama and Doha. One part of the US campaign which disappointed me was the extent to which the democrats pandered to protectionism. In the current climate are you optimistic that the Doha talks can be revived?
Do I sense a note of disappointment in "we HAVE to recognise"? And what do you propose to do, Peter, about Labour's reputation as the most commanding and controlling government of all time? You must know they are despised.
If you think this is a Tory troll speaking, spend an hour in the pub. But don't dare light a cigarette.
Like who? And in what sense do you use the word "great"?
Fab, just absolutely "FAB" if you could reply, sweetie!
I thought I'd never see the day.... I'm quite excited to see how all this is going to develop now.
By what right, with which mandate, do you so vainly presume?
Might help if you also spoke to some real people, unpleasant for you I know, but it might just give you a more realistic perspective on life, what's happening out in the real world and on what real people think is important. "Data and targeted communication" indeed!
The government is a terribly inefficient allocator of resources and is very careless with taxpayer money.
However, I'm delighted to see that you're prepared to engage in conversation with us, I just hope that it will be slightly different from the New Labour traditional model whereby the government tells us what it's doing with our money because it knows better than we do.
I look forward to your assurances that further aspects on this engagement and conversation will not be the same old empty postures and fatuous photo opportunities.
I welcome this format and this idea of gaining real debate that is not first seen through the words of the press that focuses on real issues by supporters and members. No doubt there will be those that aim to disrupt or just post argumentative comments but this is a good way to let people know that the Labour Party is real and dose care about the things the public do.
As a whole we do need to move to a situation where all Labour MPs use the net, be it though blogs or websites to actively seek ways to communicate with the electorate. We do need to show the press that real debate is more valid then one sided attacks and slurs and that real democracy depends on it.
With David Cameron embarked on a voyage to sail on a clam see and go nowhere with his do nothing approach on the economy, peoples jobs, homes and communities this new site is needed as it shows the reality that Labour is active across the spectrum of issues and is also not afraid to try new approaches to take the debate further.
Fair to who, and fair in what way?
Clearly you cannot be fair to all, since dealing fairly denotes choice. So who will you choose to deal most fairly with, Peter? And, by definition, with whom will you be unfair?
Back when we were in opposition, you came to speak to our Labour club in York. There were some drunk Tories trying to be abusive (I suspect something along the same lines will happen any moment in a virtual way...) and the chair made me ask a question because only Tories had their hands up! I couldn't think of anything so asked, 'when we win, will we renationalise all the utilities.' You looked like I'd spat at you! It never occurred to either of us then, I imagine, that 15 years later you'd be in a government that nationalised the banks! But there's no point just nationalising the losses, that's just resuscsitating a dying corpse long enough for it to die again. We need to buy influence and use it, to force our way out of the recession.
But you're absolutely right - the Tory approach is bobbins.
Lovely of you to converse with us, the public.
Perhaps you can 'embrace and engage' in this dialogue by telling us:
1) Why you accepted Oleg Deripaska's 'hospitality' and stayed as his guest a for a number of nights on his Yacht (bearing in mind that George Osbourne got 'slaughtered' by your well-oiled machine); and
2) Who paid for your recent jaunt to Marrakesh.
I'm sure that in the spirit of disclosure and transparency you'll provide us with a complete and accurate explanation.
BTW, when you blogged before - as a EU Commissar - you wrote (once!), but you didn't respond to any comments. Will you do so this time?
Fab that you're here now Peter, and I hope the odd blog post will be a semi-regular thing.