Guido Fawkes' racist comments have to stop - and Iain Dale must stop linking to him NOW!

David,

Have you been asleep since April?

Derek is no more. He is an ex-Blogger.

Try contacting at: Drapper & McBride - PR Consultants.

Derek the more i think about this, the more i feel we should rise above it. You and i know these type of people always emerge,i say emerge because you don't get much lower. But just like the playground funny man, if people don't bite they soon move on. I say as we are all brothers and sisters no matter what colour, there can't be rascist comments. And no matter how hard they try to divorce themselves from the fact, people laugh at them not with them.

On the subject of racism, remember the south africa apartheid pass laws?
And why do you think there shall be a DNA database?

Derek - I think I need counselling to cope with this most serious of crimes. Can you help out? You're a typical white upper middle class guy speaking for minorities because fundamentally, you see them as subhuman and incapable of expressing themselves, so in you go... You can't help yourself can you?

Loved the Brown Britain one...

well then you don't know what racismis

So we need you to tell us, dont we? Typical Labour bullsh*t. Think you're right and anyone who disagrees is wrong. A blog for the Labour Party that cant stop lecturing its supporters on what they should think. Lets have an editor who LISTENS.

Derek Draper,

Sorry to upset your caring, sensitive etc sensibilities but I found many of these comments seriously funny.

Thought you might be interested in this self-help site as it sums your psychological state perfectly:

http://www.wellesley.edu/Psychology/Cheek/sensitive.html

Either that or you have a sense-of-humour-bypass.

Or possibly both.

racism is bad etiquette anywhere chris ...in society.

comments on a blog then the owner of the blog does not necessarily condone those comments?



what is the decision criteria for allowing comments?

Except at a BNP meeting obviously

Please don't tell me what I should or should not do. That is your, and Labours problem in a nutshell.

The internet as you are aware, allows you to make comments. I might read GF for information or (sometimes) entertainment, and I think it is always worthwhile to see and read about alternate viewpoints as a 'check' on your own.

And please don't call me a 'Labour person'. If a 'Labour person' is defined as someone who should not read something that might be seen by others as being awkward, or 'off message' or offensive, or inconvenient, then that is not the sort of person I would wish to be, or wish to be seen as.

I read GF to discover more about JS and AD and their claims for expenses. That is information that concerns me at the moment far more than some silly people using the anonymity of the internet to make puerile jokes, regarding Junior Thatcher and the BBC, and the undercurrents of sometime racism that exist, have existed, and will always exist in any society.

You cannot 'wish these people away'. I abhor racism for many reasons, and believe that it is the single biggest indicator of general ignorance, but it exists. The idea that I should avert my eyes should I see it is rather silly though.

The reason, I suspect, that GF has left them up there is because you are throwing your toys out of the pram over a non-issue and behaving hysterically. You have also been accused of exaggerating your qualifications. You know, I am sure, that because you are in the public eye as a political figure then you are fair game for this sort of thing.

Would you, for instance, have hesitated if Letwin or similar had left some ambiguity around their attendance at certain academic establishments?

I think not.

Do yourself, and us, a favour here Derek and calm down. With the economy going down steeply and no money left in our coffers for insurance, perhaps you might focus more on the root causes of what may be of concern to people in reality, rather than an online bout of pathetic fisticuffs which no-one, apart from yourselves, could really have the slightest interest in.

they weren't silly and they were racist

he posts vicious hateful stuff all the time

labour people shouldn't have anything to do with that

Honestly, it does appear that there is a bit of a playground spat going on. For someone who apparently is heading the web relaunch of the much trampled on Labour brand, you are surely aware that if someone comments on a blog then the owner of the blog does not necessarily condone those comments?

All you are doing here is acting like a twelve year old girl in the playground. I have been a Labour supporter (and voted Labour) all my life, but the disaster that is this Government will need far more than a website like this to win back my vote. Oh, and this is not a reaction to the current economic situation either, it's a reaction to the sheer incompetence, arrogance and double standards that make up this Carnival of Fools that is the current Cabinet.

I think you should focus on larger issues that some silly comments left on a blog - and look at the destruction of our civil liberties, privacy and freedom of speech, thought and action.

At the next Election, whatever you do, you are going to get a righteous kicking, and you will fully deserve it. Labour is an absolute unmitigated disaster and a disgrace from top to bottom. You have achieved nothing, and broken much.

Shame on the lot of you.

MrMAX, do yu think that we should be for someone who is anti-society?

Draper's Downfall on YouTube is a hoot.

"experienced hardline "


or do yu mean that these blokes are hard?

yu are scared of them. as they will have YOU for breakfast anytime.

yes, thought so.

Old Holborn used to contribute to the BBC Radio 4 "Today" (programme) board.


what is that - a reader's panel. does not sound special.

New Labour is making me turn into an Anarchist
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that actually is quite funny . I recommend that yu seek a therapist.

oops, it seems that yu have found one, well done!

err, baa?

I know it's been said again and again, but all of this intra-blog back and forth is not really what LabourList was set up to achieve. I've blogged on this matter here:

www.transatlanticpost.com

I hope people (including Derek) will take the time to read it. I've tried to put it in the context of the larger Labour Party mission in expanding our presence online. In short, not only are stories like this a distraction - but they reinforce the personality-based blogging style that is typical of Web 1.0. If we want to take advantage of the full scope of Web 2.0, we need a move to a far more interactive and participatory model of blogging.

If Derek is reading this, perhaps he would be interested in re-posting the blog here on LabourList?

T

As a racist, I want to say thank you for the exposure you have given to these comments. I was discouraged in my offensive unacceptable point of view by the anonymity such remarks generally receive on Guido's blog. But thanks to you, the comments have now received copious attention throughout the blogosphere and beyond. Not only that, but here they are writ large on this semi-official Labour Party website (Grassroots, my elbow! you don't think anyone takes that seriously do you?)

I suspect ash, Mr Freud fancied a knighthood and the Tories took the bait and Labour (to their credit) didn't. How can this silly little man be regarded as an "expert" on a subject he knows nothing about?

Good riddance to him, I should say. perhaps Labour can now get back a bit of credibility, but I am not sure Purnell is the one to do it.

even the real GO is not allowed "free" speech. why should yu?

"nice but nasty"




quite like the juxtaposition.

the mix is right. at present.

civilised or not...a party that wants to be in power needs to be in sync with society.


someone who would protect us. someone who would be respected internationally. someone who will not jeopardise community cohesion. I am sure that the Tories will be brilliant in all categories - not.

boring = it does not stimulate.

It requires more effort then the implied payback. It is boring.

yr tagline is kinda interesting. Just like "Obnoxio the Crown".

major prejudiuces insociety are an issue for society...and not necessairly for the individual. yu have a right to your view.

remember Sex Pistols and Anarchy in the UK.

For the band it was a fantasy.
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Stains, at heart, wants to promote it. so to be honest although ppl are able to live the intense side of themselves on his site...may be more positive outlets exist for this side of our personality.

So, Staines is a liar
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..
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more a fantasist?

this is an excellent post and I agree with its conclusion/


the point about

"affiliate marketing banners provided by a network"

confirms some information I obtained some time ago.

"EXACTLY, society is not about what YOU think, but about what the MAJORITY think. "

majority of the ppl that yu know I think is what yu mean.

Having said that clearly there is a umet need here./

how well would yu say the memebrs of the Guido blog fit into society. Thanks.

"What the hell gives you the right to dictate how I should think and what I should say?"


oh dear. another hysteric. see reply above/

What I find more objectionable is sanctimonious people like you telling me how I should think.
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freedom not tobe controlled. is what yu aspire to. why not control yourslef then?

yu have right to yr view/ do many agree with yu?

and yu know all this - how? are yu a fantasist? are there more positive outlets for your imagination?



shoudl think so/

"irrelevant bloggers "


i hope that the individuals concerned agree with you. In fact I am sure they do.

"we had a defecvtion to the Tories from a closet Tory"


who is not able to think beyond "Personal Glory".

how out of touch with society they are.
.
.
.how out of step?

I agree, if "4 real" hasn't the attention span to appreciate it then that's their problem.

Richard Lanes recent piece is very good. It's the hopeless attempts at Tory bashing by the Labour Youth (most of whom appear to never have had a proper job) that let it down.

It is sad that you Tories completely miss the point on anything to do with racism. Did I say racism against white people was acceptable? No I did not. In fact I said I hoped that they would never suffer racism. But the notion that White pople have suffered as much at the hads of racism in this country compared to Black and Asians, for whom we have a whole thesaurus of racist alternatives, is simply rubbish.

The reason the BNP Do well is becaus epople like you tell them that they are being discriminated against because of thir race, when the reality is that they will face far less discrimination in society, the competition for jobs, and in education. Please do not compare what White people have suffered to what Ethnic minorities. It just makes you look ignornant,

I will admit that the approved term is becoming a joke. We were Etnic Minorities, then BME, then BAME. I have always thought Ethnic minority was suitable.

Gary, Nobody is condoning racism, but the fact is that the comments Mr Draper thought so offensive he deemed not offensive enough not to reprint them on this site, are typical of the thoughtless drivel that appears on web pages. If you look at American sites such comments appear mild by their standards. Also, Mr Draper is using free speech to call contyributors to this site "fools" and racists. Free speech cuts both ways.

What is so annoying, for an apparently serious site, is that because Parliament is on "half term" hioliday this week (yes, I know they've only been back from Xmas 5 weeks) nobody is posting from labour on the very serios issues that engulf us at the moment. Yesterday we had a defecvtion to the Tories from a closet Tory - what his Mr draper to say about that?. Nothing. He seems, with the greatest respect, to be conducting himself on this site like the editor of a student magaqzine.

I don't approve of racism - I doubt that anyone here does, but he will not get people to remove things from their websites just because of his "outrage", and these outbursts seem to be more to do with self-promotion and his oversized ego, than a genuine debate about ideas.

I applaud Mr Drappers stance over Guido Fawkes'page.

It is always right to raise concerns over raciest views and while some will whine about free speech. The truth is free speech can not be hidden behind to encourage hatred of others.

Guido Fawkes is typical of a person who allows those views to flourish while ignoring society's values. If we want a decent society, then it’s right to challenge views that are based on hearsay and ignorance.

Freedom of speech is important and in saying some people step over the mark is not saying people cannot express themselves.

Yet to think raciest views and offensive comments are part of British life only shows how out of touch with society they are.

To be fair Labour has a vision of the future. It is clearly documented with only minor changes in a great novel by George Orwell. I think he calls it Ingsoc?

I wonder if Mr Draper has an opinion on the ban on taking pictures of the police?

Mr Draper, I find it delightfully ironic that you so valiantly battle racism on the web and demand apologies from irrelevant bloggers on behalf of other people you have never met. Might I remind you that you have a link to the Internet site B3ta.com on the right hand side of this very page?

Now, I'm a liberal minded guy but in my experience B3ta.com contains some of the most offensive content I have come across on the web. You don't have to dig very far to encounter content that is specifically designed to shock and offend people.

A large amount of the B3ta.com content is politically incorrect and is certainly not something I would expect a Labour blog to link to.

I have regularly encountered racism, homophobia, and religious intolerance on B3ta.com and you don't have to look past its front page to find content that is disrespectful to women. Yet you yourself describe it as containing “Loads of funny stuff”.

Sir, I put it to you that you are in somewhat of a hypocritical position.

I am sure that you do not support or agree with the views expressed on B3ta.com so, in your own words, you MUST take this link to the offensive content off your website NOW and you MUST apologise for the offense you have caused.

Furthermore, you may like to explain why, if you are so outraged at the content on Guido's site, you have decided to faithfully reproduce it here?

lesse (sic) majestie - now that is funny! Though it seems somehow to have escaped your notice that of course the whole idea of the caption competition with that picture is a crime of lese majestie. Thankfully however not may people in this country want to live in a society where there is actually anything wrong with that. Except that is for some of the posters on this list.

Nah you're OK, I will just email the same people and explain the holes in your argument.

So you think using a term like 'you fool' is acceptable in discourse Derek? Do you call your patients fools when they talk to you and you disagree? I hope not.

You are obviously not a capable moderator on an aggregated blog such as this, moderators should only act to remove comments that break house rules, unless it's a personal site you really should not enter into slanging matches!

Derek appears to be melting down here, with a bizarrely pisspoor understanding of the concept of what society is. Most of the comments on Guido were pretty tame, though some were obnoxious; all the comments came from members of society, which seems to me mildly ironic.

Live and let live, eh? JD.

So, Staines is a liar and a hypocrite?

Looking at the Tories and Guido faboi's in here shows the same blowing off and negativity they swear they decry.

It's true in martial arts that amateurs throw big punches and start fights. Politics and online kung fu is no different.

Letting things go is fine to a point but forensically taking apart one of these fools can help teach everyone else a lesson.

Pfff. They *claim* they'll hold a Tory government to account but even if they did they'd still be lunatic shits. You can't build a civilised society on that sort of crud and if the Tories are freeloading on the back of Paul Staines et al it doesn't say much about them *today*. Party of change? Yeah, right. The Tories wouldn't know change if it crawled up their ass and bit their nose off. Nasty today? Nasty tomorrow. Who you are *now* is what matters.

Labour minded? There's a fine oxymoron. JD.

The only comments I hear from you Dolly, are one liners. Can you not string at least a paragraph together? Maybe you have had it your way too much and can't stand the heat. If so, keep out of the kitchen.

Why is it you are so against free speech? Afraid you might be caught out?

Do you know how to moderate a community based site? On the evidence of this thread it seems not.

EXACTLY, society is not about what YOU think, but about what the MAJORITY think. And the majority think that you have ruined this website before it's even had a chance to get going. The majority also thinks "Who is Guido Fawkes? I don't give a damn what's on his site." How do I know they answer? I had a quick poll of people I have seen today, real people, not twitter twerps or the such. And none had even heard of Fawkes, let alone cared.

Well said! JD.

I didn't find it boring. Maybe 'boring' is in the eye of the beholder. I thought it an intelligent post, and a lot more interesting and valid than the many puerile posts and ad hominems on this page. JD. بارك الله اميركا

Please then elaborate - racismis is not in my dictionary. I couldn't find it, but racism was in there: "the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."
Therefore it is quite obvious that making a joke about it does not have to be a racist act. Think of all those 'there was an Englishman, Irishman and a scotsman... etc. jokes. It is beyond belief that anyone would be offended by such innocent jokes. I as an Anglo British subject have never, ever been offended by them in spite of being partly English and partly scottish. I assume you are English? Have you ever been offended by the use of the word Englishman in such a joke?
Perhaps you have a distorted, or confused understanding of the word 'racism'. I think it's pretty simple. It's not so hard to learn how to take a joke, really.
Thank you for taking the time to reply, JD. بارك الله اميركا

'I did not say, nor imply that there is anything 'funny about racism'. But it is ok to ridicule it, is it not? A joke is a joke is a joke. It is not the same as an act. What really matters is whether or not it is funny.
I stand by my previous post. I also take nobody's inventory but my own. Try it yourself? No offence.
بارك الله اميركا
JD.

Maybe the country is in the mood for a proper debate on a great number of issues; maybe the frustration is showing. Why not encourage people to visit this apolitical petition and, if they agree, encourage them to sign it as a way of progressing hopefully from frustration to positive action? http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/GoToCountryNow/

Draper wrote "well, you should be expelled then "


So now you think you should have a say in who is in the Labour party, do you?

Blair seemed to think he owned the party, and look what happened: overnight in 2005 his majority dropped from 167 to 69.

People don't wan't to be bullied or subject to your hissy fits. If you think you are so clever why don't you seek adoption as a candidate to become an M.P. and then Labour might elect you their leader.

All you do is to try to "make" people do things, well, we arte not children, you are not God and your opinions are merely that - no more or less important than anybody else.

I find it hard to believe that you are a psycotherapist, since they are supposed to be calm and sensitive to others.

Derek
This Guido obsession of yours is getting out of control. You need to can it before Brown cans you. Believe me, there is serious disquiet in the Fuhrer Bunker that NuLabour's web relaunch has gone so seriously awry.
Saab

There is something funny about racism. By just lobbing the word around it states that there is no spectrum - that an avenue of humour is denied, that friends should not laugh with each other as both 'perceived victim' or offender. I have been beaten up and mugged a few times and they were all racist but I was busy getting me head stoved in at the time to treat it as racist. Yet i'm an Irish Catholic who has concerns and it's fine for people to hurl racist abuse at me, just don't kick me on the floor and make me act like a fallen jockey in the grand national - a bit of ribald commentary is sometimes accurate and oftentimes funny.

It is also noticeable, Mr draper that while you conduct your pointless cyber wars, because you are so right-on you have NEVER commented on the frequent playing of the race card by Hazel Blears, Phil Woolas and Frank Field.

You cannot pretend you haven't heard them. What is so right about their onslaughts against immigration?. Surely they are as bad as the people you set up as your enemies?

I challenged this hours ago because it is a term of abuse used against children with a mental handicap. You are still using it!

...which brings me to another point. Ignorance is never an excuse. (So goes to clarion call against casual (and causal) rascism. You display exactly the same traits in your bandying about of derogatory comments about diabled people. For shame.

Still, don't let anyone think for themselves, best just bluster over the top.

I'm sure that this will upset some of Mr draper's sycophants, but i do wonder if last weekend and this he would have been working himself up into such a state of moral outrage had NuLabour been 25% ahead in the polls, Brown had been crowned saviour of the world, and Tony blair was in line to become the next Pope and had announced he was going to instute proceedings to make Mandelson a saint?

I rather suspect that he wouldn't - indeed this weeek it took him three days to comment on Prince Harry's latest gaffe (it was announced in the press on tursday that he had apparently told a black comedian that "you don't sound like a black chap" - Mr Draper informs me this was mentioned yesterday (Friday) - surely to somebody as sensitive as he that would have merited the sort of arrogant vitriol he has unleashed this week (and last week on Iain Dale); personally i thought that was an even more insensitive remark than the "caption contest" (most of these caption contests tend to bring out vulgar tresponses.

But i don't think this really ahs anything to do with racism: it has to do with Mr draper trying to take our minds of Brown's many current embarrassments and the public's understandable anger about them, and also, of course, Mr Draper loves an audience and the sound of his own voice - hence the terribly "amusing" little one liners he has inflicted on this page.

What is the use of LabourList?: It is as pointless as some government ministers I could mention.

As it happens, it is probably *the* most offensive term for disabled/mentally ill people.

Oh, you didn't know? A 'window licker' is a mentally disabled child who sits on the 'special school' bus and looks out the window. It's an appallingly derogatory term. It's use by you and your contributors is an absolute disgrace. You rightly railed at Golliwog but this is as bad, if not worse.

I wish to complain. The comment 'squeal like a pig' is clearly a reference to the homosexual rape scene in the film Deliverance. Try googling it and you
get:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deliverance

This is a clear reference to Iain Dale's sexuality and is disgraceful. If you have a dispute with him deal with it without this homophobic innuendo.

I don't agree that his site is vile. Some of the comments are puerile but some of the articles aren't.

But Derek

You support a Party that has failed to operate the most rudimentary controls and rushed headlong over a financial cliff, has destroyed the economy of the UK, debased the currency, blown billions on abortive policies to rescue the banks and created the worse recession among G8 counties. A Party that whose senior members screw their expenses to the hilt and try to prevent the disclosure of what they are taking. A Party where senior members will sell UK legislation to the highest bidder and then brazenly say 'well it's not against the rules'.

Have you attacked those issues here? Have you demanded action? written to the PM demanding they be sacked? Started a campaign for honesty and socialist policies? Nope. Instead you focus on what one or two nutters post on a rival web site.

Don't you live in society? You show all the signs of believing Thatcher's dictum.

Perhaps you are a fool yourself, Mr Draper? You keep popping up with these sill;y "demands". You can know little about the internet: I have been using it for over 10 years and while the examples you quoted of racist jokes were unpleasant and distasteful, I have seen a lot worse - I am afraid the anonymous nature of the medium does tend to promote stuff like that.

It would be good however if instead of interjecting with these little tirades and your one line put-downs you conmcentrated on some of the really big issues that will very soon bring down New labour, namely unemployment, the banking crisis, and ministers and MPs who play the system to maximise their expenses: these are the issues that make the public angry and your little diversions make people even more angry.

No, you didn't. They're still there. He's laughing at you.

anyone is deemed to be racist if it suits the left at the time

he's fool because he was criticising us for something we haven't done

just like you did

i thought windowlickers meant people on the outside looking in, what do you think it means? seriously, is it an offensiv term? i did not know

Just as a quick question is Lee Jasper a racist for wanting to reintroduce apartheid in British schools with his black only schools proposal or are only right wingers racists?

So Derek, racism is out but degrading and ridiculing disabled people is fine.

Perhaps you could remove all posts refering to 'windowlickers', including your own.

Arjun. I've encountered a lot of racists in my time. A lot of them don't wear white skin (sorry - can you give me the Party approved term for referring to people with a darker skin tone?). This seems to be a particular problem for the cities in the North of England. This is why the BNP are making such gains up here. There's so much rich talk about racism (and in many of the cases Dolly highlighted above, the attribution of racism is simply laughable), yet I see no action to hold non-white racists to account. This is very serious. It has spilled out into violence in several cases that I've been witness to. I too have "been the victim of racist abuse". However, given that I'm white I'm sure that it must be "good racism". Right?

Like I said, they're everywhere. Of course if you're really concerned there are some good anti-racist organisations out there; you could spend your time helping them instead. Only thing is, I don't think they solely target popular anti-government blogs. Would that be a problem for you?
Also, just one more question on the terminology: Is the main difference between an "enabler of racism" and a "racist" that if you call someone the latter it's legally actionable, while the former probably isn't, or are there other differences we should be aware of?

Draper, you wrote of one of the other writers: "you fool, we've done that- and we will do again "

So he's a fool because YOU don't happen to agree with him?

What right have you got to call anyone else a fool, when we see your silly little rejoinders, your pathetic little "demands". Anyone would think you were about 14.

Thanks for linking across to that Guido piece Derek, I'd missed it ! It's really funny - well done of you. More links to funny and less sanctimonious blogs than LabourList would improve your site no end.

Guido agrees with me - he took the comments down

You would probably think so because I am White Christian English.Bit like you really.

What I find more objectionable is sanctimonious people like you telling me how I should think. Oh and by the way, the next time you speak with Prescott give him a prod and ask him to practice what he preaches on this blog by replying to posts in the way that he advised Mandelson to do a few days ago. This was the question in case he has forgotten.
Mr Prescott, What are your feelings on the transparency of MP's expenses. Do you think it is right that you and your colleagues skim off huge amounts in expenses and perks from taxpayers money. My wife and I survive on a meager pension and yet we still pay tax each month which subsidises your Champagne lifestyle.

Of course he is; they're everywhere. At this very moment there are 205 racists working for right wing blogs in the UK. We must root them out. Keep up the good work.

With respect to you Steve, as you say, you are entitled to your opinion. But, I have been reading a whole load of books on blogging, and internet marketing blogs. They all say the same thing, a blog is more than just about content - With great content comes great interactivity. Yaro Starak is an Australian entrepreneur who earns ,000 dollars a month on his blog. And has several thousands readers and students. He must be wrong then, as he has always said that blogs are not just about posting they are about technological advancement. Pop over to his blog on www.entrepreneurs-journey.com and you may understand what angle I am coming from.

So thats it then, you just run around your playground screaming RACIST at everyone you disagree with?

I am sure you learnt about the boy who cried wolf at 'collage' didn't you?

well, hard luck you live in SOCIETY

we got him to take them down

demanding that of people who are your political opponents, why do you think they are going to take a blind bit of interest in your 'instruction'

uuummm.. he took them down

What the hell gives you the right to dictate how I should think and what I should say?

I don't give a dam what others say about me or about anything else.

Get over it.

The suggestion that Guido is a racist because some people leave racist comments on his website is an obvious non sequitur. This is sanctimonious gesture politics at its worst, motivated by a desire to attack Guido rather than any real concern about racism. In exploiting the issue of racism in this way you devalue and debase it.

This is the most bizarre thread I have read, you are calling on people to do this, demanding that of people who are your political opponents, why do you think they are going to take a blind bit of interest in your 'instruction'. It precisely this arrogant top down preaching that is delivering the white working class into the hands of the BNP,economic policies that have devasted the savings, pensions and capital of the whole nation, the destruction of 354 businesses a week. Yet you are squealing like an overwrought student about racism.

You may not have noticed that negative campaigning no longer washes, if campaigning is what you think it is. Your party is as bankrupt of ideas other than bash the Tories, and anybody you think is not on your side is a Tory, you could not be more wrong,

What the people of this country want is less of you all, less authoritarian, less taxation,less thought crime, less kneejerk lawmaking.

If this is the best you can offer on Labourlist, a personal screeching vendetta, you had better move aside for somebody a little less thin skinned who can adcocate policy not personality politics

JD that was such an ignorant and misguided post. There is nothing funny about racism.

Stanislav, one paragraph should be enough space to make your point. you're boring everyone.

then he can say so, and tell us what he has learnt from this sorry episode

Exactly Neil, we are about to highlight your list and call in a new post from LabourList. Fantastic work!

So you want Guido to admit that he was attempting to provoke Racist comments or have I misunderstood you?

What if Guido wasn't attempting to provoke racist comments?

exactly!

well, you should be expelled then

All that said, the racism and homophobia on Guido Fawkes' blog didn't start yesterday. It's been there for a long time so I'm amazed it was linked to from here at all in the first place, so adding it on just to take it off looks a bit like a stunt, but hey ho, if it helps draw attention to the vile nature of his site I don't mind.

there are loads of great posts, occassionally we will be standing up to the right wing.its mix we're happy with,we wouldn't want it any other way...

That’s right Paul advertisers love to be associated with racism. I remember Carphone Warehouse being so pleased with BB 2 years ago that they extended their sponsorship, oh no sorry I mean they cancelled it immediately.

ooh! thats me put in my place

I do call on them to take the link off until he removes the comments. (I am told he has but we are checking)

you fool, we've done that- and we will do again

he squealed like a pig for a week

its my style, get used to it;)

you are right nick, there are racists like you everywhere

well then you don't know what racismis

i willpass this onto our tech.people

well, has he taken them down. frit i believe neil kinnock called it

yes, that's why you bothered to write this.

it depends. we asked him tov apologise. has he? willhe commit that it won't happen again? willhe acknowledge the photoitselfw as a provocation?

that's not racist, well done!

this is what web are up against. he calls himself a tory and he laughs at racist jokes - nuff said? cameron may be "nice" his party is full of nasty people

they are both enablers of racism by linking to it, dale defends it

not offended? are you a racist?

Guido's readers love a bit of racism and homophobia. Look at his caption competition the day after Mandelson rejoined cabinet. The picture had nothing interesting about it at all but was simply chosen to excite his homophobic readers and invite a load of hate speech.

Pointing this out to his "advertisers" is a good idea. I put that in speech marks because Guido likes to give the impression he has advertisers. He even recently thanked his advertisers for their support which was quite cleverly worded and meant to deceive. It gives the impression that M&S, Laterooms etc support his blog and pay him through advertising. In actual fact, they are all affiliate marketing banners provided by a network, so he only receives money if someone clicks a link and buys something. Anyone at all with a website can sign up to do that. A pedantic point maybe but when he thanked his advertisers for their support, he was giving the impression that these large companies were in any way choosing to support him by being there which isn't true.

Most of these affiliate companies do have terms and conditions about hate speech though, so its his privellege to print as much poison as he likes but when it's pointed out them I don't think they'll want their banners there.

Derek,

Clearly you are reduced to picking fights with successful blogs in an attempt to increase traffic on your own site.

Do you have anything of interest to actually contribute?

What is Labour's vision of the future? Presumably the scale of Labour's ambition is limited to trying to convince the public that all Conservatives are evil.


ZZzzzZzzzz......

This comment is meant to be helpful. The commenting system on LabourList - unlike Labour Home - doesn't link responses to comments to the comments to which they are responding - and since the moderation process seems pretty slow the responses are often miles away from the original comment so one is left guessing what they are on about. Derek's brief responses are obvious examples. In the absence of a formal linking system (which, on LH is admittedly pretty clunky) can't responders quote enough of the comment they are responding to so that we can tell what they are going on about?

EG, I might respond:

Chris Paul calls Guido "this shameless tax avoider ...". Why should anyone be ashamed of avoiding tax? Do Labour MPs pay tax on their incredibly generous second home allowances - no, of course they don't - they claim them as allowable against tax - thus avoiding the tax.

Without the reference to Chris's comment the point is lost.

I don't see those comments as racist - they are attempts at humour in a caption competition. A joke on the subject of racism is just that, a joke, not a racist act.
You use the term 'right wing' as if it is somehow derogatory. I am sure no 'right winger' could have brought Great Britain to its bankrupt knees as quickly and thoroughly as the current shower of a 'left wing' government, so I know which side I, and millions of others, am on.
Are you not being a little thin skinned here, or merely trying to smear your superior 'right wing' target?
Chill!! JD. بارك الله اميركا

Hilarious stuff.

These may have been posted on Guido's site but not by Guido. Just because YOU don't like them doesn't stop them being funny. I think you'll find your metropolitan shock horror about such comments is not duplicated amongst most of the rest of the country.

The other comments were racist. This one clearly is not but commits the offence of lesse majestie

Derek

But read your posts. It's all MUST MUST MUST. It's like listening to Arthur Scargill in the 1980's but on speed. And look at where that took the party. Don't you think that voters are fed up with that style of politics.

"Last week we held Iain Dale to account for condoning Carol Thatcher's use of the term 'golliwog' to describe a mixed race tennis player. (He still does so)"

So you didn't hold him to account, did you - he completely ignored you. Jeez, you have got your head so far up your arse it sticks out of your mouth.

More personal attacks? God this site is such a let down - bringing together like minded people my ar$e.

If you were so bothered about racism you would post on the BNP threat to Labour's vote, not on the comments of a caption competition.

get your priorities right. The more you spout off on your personal vendettas the more the reader realises or remembers what a self-interested creature you are.

Well it looks like Iain Dale and Conservative Home are still linking to Guido.

Come to think of it, so are Tom Harris, Conor Byrne, Sadie's Tavern, Kezia Dugdale, Progress Online, LabourHome, Frank Owen and Conor's Commentary. That's 30% of your A-List!

Presumably to avoid any hint of hypocrisy, you will publicly order them to stop linking to Guido NOW?

I think we should be told!

Some of us do, Mr Draper. Old Holborn used to contribute to the BBC Radio 4 "Today" (programme) board.

Of course, a lot of people wouldn't know who YOU were, unless they recall your squabbles with Charlie Whelan on the aforesaid Today programme 11/12 years ago.

My general view is you'd be better off producing articles that set a credible lead rather than getting sucked into spats. I'm no fan of multi-culturalism or any of that dreg, but something that focused on developing leadership and how better relations create a win-win would be ballpark.

Racism is, mostly, just a form of bullying and alienation. It's just another spin on group dynamics so no mystery. Attacking racists (or blindly propping up people wallowing in victimhood) isn't necessarily a good idea as it can just make things worse or drag them out. Plus, you take your eye off the ball and run the risk of looking a twat.

A lot of this stuff is dog chases cat sort of obvious but could do with crystallising, and there's scope with other parties and people for building agreement. I'm sure there's plenty of success stories out there, and other stories where people had to swallow their ego. But, you have to move beyond the cookie cutter arguments to reach that.

This fracas in cyberspace does raise, as they say, interesting questions.

Are, for instance, voluntary, unpaid, polyglot, multi-national and disparate travellers on the information Superhighway, commenting, bound by the same arch and obscurantist politesse as is Westminster - dishonourable and right dishonourable thieving lying bastards on all sides facetiously bowing and scraping at one another, a faux courtliness masking an unprincipled gutter trade - or is it the case that the Internet is, as intended, a prohibitions-free zone, rightly uncorraled by UK legislation and convention ? Are bloggers to call on some CyberSpeaker to insist, point of order, that so-and-so withdraws that last remark?

It does seem that, as with much else, the House of Commons and its agents would, in matters of self-expression, ever restrict, proscribe, cajole and punish; the cry of I Spy Racist, here, being an example of the over-regulatory tendencies of all in MediaMinster.

Of nearly three hundred comments on the posting at order-order, a handful, fewer than usual, actually, are witty, many are angry, bilious, frustrated and another handful could be deemed deeply unpleasant; that comment moderation is enabled indicates that the truly incendiary comments are being filtered-out, so an element of notional Decency - always a difficult value judgement to make - is loosely imposed - for some, of course, any censoring is counterproductive; how can you challenge the unspeakable when none can speak it or hear it ? It must, nevertheless, be acknowledged that, as with the peurile TottyWatch - Guido aping that giant of Fleet Street, the great Libertarian, Mr Kelvin McKenzie - order-order does invite and provoke comment which it's owner, while clearly welcoming and celebrating, refrains from making himself; this, though, is just the nature of show business and you have no business criticising Mr Fawkes' act or in pronouncing magisterially upon what may and may not appear in cyberspace, as though you are the sole arbiter not only of taste but of right and wrong.

There exists a legal framework for punishing incitement to racial hatred, if that is insufficiently potent you should lobby for it's strengthening; the reality of modern Britain, however - never mind the global audience which even a poor plumber can address, via the Internet - is that so-called incorrect language is the norm. In factories - such as remain - in pubs, in cafes, in clubs, at football grounds, in fact, everywhere outside the charmed circles of wealthy, political celebrity and Guardian-advertised "posts" in the public sector, where such corectness is rigidly policed, the comments which offend you so are everyday currency, that's how life is and order-order is, if anything, more tilted to "correctness" than you allow; more considerate and tolerant of Otherness than is assumed in your critique. Even within the component nations of the Union, hatreds, resentments and grievances flourish for centuries, mostly, these days, without incident; it is simply impossible to frame laws to make people like people they don't want to like. And rightly so, people will homogenise in time by their own efforts and exigencies, the State need only police the policeable- unfair discrimination, oppression and violence.

A minority of the country, a small minority, listens to Radio 4, reads the broadsheets, ho-ho-ho, watches Newsnight; an even smaller minority joins political parties; the endless, tyrannical rebukes from the braying, self-congratulatory Yasmin Alibhai Brown, the remorseless chiding of the ill-educated Melanine Phillips, the purple-faced why-oh-whyism of Simon Heffer; the breathless I-Know-Bestism of Will Hutton and now the manufactured righteous indignation of Labour'sList, the sermonising cacophony, in short, from those whose only talent is to reprove, whose only industry is to hector, falls on deaf ears. The often coarse but evidently heartfelt jibes, however, of those who worship at order-order, reveal, in their vulgarity and acidity, in their anarchical bellicosity, the temper of the times.

Labour and Tory members, engineers of a racist holocaust in Iraq, promoters of and shareholders in AirTorture Inc. and joint authors of creeping totalitarianism at home can take their purse-lipped anti-racism sermons and preach them in the hospitals of Baghdad and Gaza and Kabul, among those made refugee to secure Tony Blair's fortune, his medal of Dishounour, let them preen and strut before the child amputees, the blind, the melted; let them, before they further lecture anyone, explain, if they can, the anti-racist credentials they reveal in this most recent Crusade.

You assume, Mr Draper, a morality which is obviously not yours, a correctness which your every word and action disown but most importantly and risibly, you claim a competence made ridiculous by each preposterous, daily maladroitness of the ludicrous Mr Brown and his Ship of Fools; in belittling the perfectly understandable outrage, rancour and cynicism for which order-order is a lightning conductor you demonstrate a complete failure to understand not only which way the wind blows but that there is a wind at all; here, you are out of your depth. Your Country, as Earl Kitchener might have said had he known you, doesn't need you.
Enlist who you will, marshal the whole of Westmister but you can't do this. You have neither the wit nor the industry; others may, Guido, for one, does, you don't. If you would, as we all should, assist what remains of the workers movement against the depradations of House of Commons Banking plc, you would go away, son, and spin no more.

Yeah, they were a bit crap.

Mr. Draper.

One knows with a degree of certainty what caption entries one *may* be exposed to, if Guido Fawkes posts a caption compo and if you click on the link to those caption entries. In anticipation if potential offence, you may choose not to click on them, in future, if you reasonably believe that you will be offended by one or more unmoderated responses.

Some regulars have a certain writing style on his site that may indeed cause offence; many others make pertinent responses regarding various matters of political interest, often regarding more serious topics than mere caption compos.

The tone is often angry and volatile (arguably with good reason), but always informative to the nth degree upon those topics. We cannot at the moment turn to the BBC nor, to a lesser extent, the dead tree press for any truly unbiased and coherent reportage of the dire straits we find ourselves in -so like many I head to Iain Dale's or Guido's or similar. I do this at least twice a day, every day. I want to know what's *really* happening in what's left of Great Britain, you see?

Guido is, I'm sorry to have to tell you, doing, in his own unique way, a gigantic public service by holding *all* politicos up for public scrutiny, whatever their allegiances. And, you know, he's been gifted for the last few years with what some laughingly (if you weren't crying) call a Government which has been using the electorate as part of some social engineering experiment (toward what end, I'm not sure -although the disastrous results are self-evident, perhaps even to you). He, therefore, provides a forum for good old fashioned free speech, which is essentially what it all boils down to, inflammatory or not. Apropos, I can't ever imagine sites like his or Iain Dale's *demanding* that other sites *MUST* do this, that, or the other. That would be ...absurd, no?

Anyway, console yourself with this thought. When Mr. Cameron wins the next election (be under no illusions, Mr. Draper), Guido and his contributors will still be around, holding *his* Government to account, if they don't behave themselves and begin to treat the electorate as idiots, just like Mr. Brown's are currently doing.

And that's rather comforting, isn't it.

"Sadly the right wing blogosphere has today proved itself to be even more offensive and objectionable."

No, one blog site with random moderation allowed a load of comments to appear that Derek Draper didn't like.
Order-Order doesn't represent regular right-leaning posters. It's an outlet for angst and for window lickers to say silly things. I'm sure this could be criminalised at some time in the future.

As someone who has frequently been the victim of racist abuse, I applaud the actions of those who have not when they seek to combat bigotry. People just think that there is no problem making innocent remarks, but the reality is that they contribute to the depressingly hostile atmosphere that ethnic minorities put up with in this country. But seeing as Paul Staines and the other Tories will, hopefully, never suffer serious racist abuse and discrimination, then of course they will not understand when they offend.

"its not brooding, its campaigning, its how we achieve change "

Nope. it's how you achieve a pissed-off alienated electorate, where even Party members like myself have decided not to vote next time.

Get your head out of your navel, stop pushing your own agenda, and try listening to the things that people want.

What do you mean 'exactly?' The comment is you are replying to has no discernible meaning.

PS's involvement in the Orbital Raves is pretty well documented, isn't it? I mean, it's not a secret. You can read all about it on sourcewatch.org, for a start. PS, like most of us, probably doesn't want to be reminded of his salad days spent gurning like a tw*t. If he were calling out politicans for drug use, or demanding a harder policy on drugs then you might have a point. But as far as I can tell he's stuck 100% to his libertarian principles on the matter.

May I enquire as to what your deleted comments were in response to? I mean, was there a relevant reason for dredging up the man's youth because of something he says / believes in now, or were you simply trying to smear him with stories of something he did as an adolescent? Aren't people entitled to grow up?

Dave Rowntree of Blur, who's lucky he's even got a nose, let alone a septum, standing as a prospective MP for Labour springs to mind.

Guido is political porn. He's just another troll and not worth the time of day. Apart from being bone idle the other reason why I can't be bothered to set up a blog countering him as it's not worth it.

Guido's ghetto like blog can cross the legal line and enthuse people to spread their abuseive attitude around so the occasional slap and questioning people who promote him is fair enough.

The generic issues of success are worth developing, and there's some good articles that could be found here, and there are better blogs to promote. Staines is niche. Obsessing about him is just the tail wagging the dog.

Ann Summers
Money Supermarket.com
Marks & Spencer.com
Uswitch
iwantoneofthose.com
HSBC
British Gas
Snap Fish
Skyscanner
Lastminute .com
Gumtree
Flicker
Dell
Intel
British airways Holidays
Gieves & Hawkes
Actionaid
Thorntons
Thomas cook


Dear Sir or Madam:

The above is a list of companies which advertise on the Order-Order.com website, a blog by Mr Paul Staines, alias Guido Fawkes. As you will have noticed, your company appears on this list.

Attached is a photograph Mr Staines published on Friday February 13th, encouraging his readers to generate comments in a ‘caption competition’. As you will note, the photograph shows a number of young children. Mr Staines then published a series of responses, many of which were racist &/or sexual in nature. (I have also attached screen shots of the published comments.)

Whilst Mr Staines denies racism, he allowed the comments to stand and published them on his site, only taking some of the worst (but by no means all the offensive comments) down after considerable outcry on-line.

I believe that Mr Staines choice of picture as ‘humorous’ and suitable for a competition, and most especially his inaction suggests tacit support for some of the views that were expressed, albeit as ‘jokes’. As a father of young children, I was disturbed by the choice of image and the comments that were posted on the site without any apparent moderation.

I am aware that my opinions on this matter are not unusual. I have discussed this site in internet fora and on social networking sites such as Twitter.com, and have found a lot of people are outraged by the material appearing on the order-order.com site. I am sure that I am not the only person who will withdraw my support and refuse to purchase from companies who support this site with advertising revenue. I am, in fact, suggesting this approach to others who were disgusted by the views expressed on Mr Staines site.

I am sure that your company does not want to be associated with the material that was posted on Guido Fawkes blog today, and I would strongly urge you to withdraw your advertising from order-order.com.

I for one will not be using any of your products until you take a stand.

Yours,

Neil Fraser.


I've emailed this out to the following addresses:
allan.gilliland@moneysupermarket.com,prteam@uswitch.com,pr@iwantoneofthose.com,servicequality@hsbc.com,Anthony.Chmarny@service.britgas.co.uk,snapfish@edelman.com,hello@gumtree.com, mail@actionaid.org, wwwcustserve@thorntons.co.uk, customer.relations@thomascook.com

If anyone wants to do the same that would be great, also if anyone can prove more contact details for these companies that too would be great.

This site is beginning to feel a little weird... I'm a Labour voter but I enjoy reading the Tory blogs. Yes, they refer to each other and there's a sense of a blog community/world, but they generally reference the political world as a whole. This blog's startin to feel as if its sole purpose is to fight the Tory blogs rather than the Tories themselves. There's an important difference there. Don't get bogged down in a war which you can't win and which you shouldn't really be fighting (ring any bells, by the way?). Ridicule them, point out their mistakes, by all means, but honestly, your blogs aren'r reading like someone holding others "to account, they just feel aggressive and ill-tempered, which isn't much fun to read. And that's the point of a blog. And that's why Guido and Dale are beating you. Concentrate on your own bloggin for a while. Just some well-intentoned advice

Chris,

While I respect your opinion, I have to disagree. I really
detest blog sites full of 'bells and whistles'. The whole
"a million interactive tools" is for the mindless.

What I like to see in a blog are interesting regular posts,
and lively comments. Guido has that. Sometimes Labourlist
has it too.

I hope nobody takes your advice. It would drive me bonkers.

Most regular bloggers know who he is.
http://bastardoldholborn.blogspot.com/

You aren't going to win this way, Derek.

As i've said before, I have no love for Labour,
but I kinda like what you do (in an opposition
way.) These guys are experienced hardline bloggers.
They are going to eat you for breakfast if you
keep this up.

Throw your hands in the air. Say: "I don't know
why I've been so het up. Sorry." And let it lie.

That's my advice anyway. Feel free to ignore.

"We call on Iain Dale to do the same and remove his link to Guido Fawkes' racist website and we call on ConservativeHome to do likewise."

Given that Iain has made it plain that he has utter contempt for you, do you really think that "We call on..." is going to have any effect? And who is We?

You really should refrain from the bottle in the afternoons.

"I am informing them that I for one will not be purchasing or using any of their products or service while they remain associated with this type of content."

I am sure they are shitting themselves. Sounds like the sort of stunt Harperson would write a press release about (and then continue buying).

True, but no one cares who you are Derek.

Do you still call for Iain Dale to remove Guido from his blogroll now Guido has removed the posts that you found objectionable?

This great fightback against the right-wing blogosphere has turned into (and wasn't it always going to) a Dolly Draper vanity project.

Possibly, just possibly, before telling centre-right bloggers to whom they should link you might start with the members of your own party who link to order-order.com on their blogs.

Or then again you might not.

Accept that you've been caught bang to rights and (in language I'm sure you're familiar with from your other job) 'move on'.

"Hey Mister, let me run the country, I'm only 4 but I saw the shit was gonna hit the fan at least two years before you!"


Am I getting the hang of this?

The problem with fridays is that guido gets so many comments that I can't be bothered to read through them.

Thanks for pulling out some real gems - absolutely classic.

If you can make a feature of this, you can count on one extra reader.

Neil, learn not to over do the outrage bit as it just looks what it is,contrived and silly.

Hi Derek, Could you just clarify for us exactly what "zero tolerance" of racism means? As far as I can tell, it means insinuating that people – such as Dale and Guido – are racists even in the absence of compelling evidence. Is that correct? Also, just so we're clear, the lesson we're meant to be drawing from all this is that they're on the side of the nasty party, right?

I am a decent person and I am not offended in any way.

Who voted you the Head of the webs stasi.

I personally find labour corruption, incompetence, sleave, crass insensitivity, lies, and deceptive spinning far more offensive than racism
which is now just a buzzword for " I can call you a racist because you refuse to agree with my viewpoint " . Another scot once said FREEDOM, perhaps he meant freedom of speech ?

Sorry I cant see your point here.Its a caption contest its not real.
I have posted many times on caption contests and quite frankly I dont care whether you are offended or not.Its called free speech -not that you would understand about that.Feel free to delete.

Well done, Labourlist is now the only place to read those comments.

What a load of tosh.

How dare you assume that because someone posts on Guido's website they are somehow right-wing.

I'm as right-wing as anyone but I find a lot of the posters on there tedious in the extreme.

A lot of them are just anti-Labour rather than pro-anything.

But hey, nice try.

By telling people they MUST

I thought this was meant to be a website about LABOUR, not DEREK DRAPER, the scummy little Nu-Labour twit. Draper, you odious little twerp, have you not realised that this blog DOES NOT exist for you to follow your private little vendetta against those who, quite rightly call, you a prick?

You are the worst example of the modern Labour party. You spout a lot of hate and fear but you never actually DO anything. It's all 100% posturing to try and seem like something you're not. In your case, you're trying to create a veneer of respectability in order to hide your own latent aggression. I bet you supported Blair in invading Iraq and leading to the deaths of 1,000,000 Iraqis. And now you feign disgust at a couple of borderline racist comments?

Go to hell you hypocritical, pro-genocidal piece of excrement.

Yes Derek I do have morals, they're just not the same as yours. On my blog racist posters get argued and ridiculed. They don't tend to come back for more. I know where I stand on racism. I picketed South Africa House, I have sung with the ANC choir, I wrote the racist / homophobic incident policies for my organisation and I agreed it with management and unions. My colours on that issue are nailed publicly to the mast. What I cannot abide is anything that smacks of No Platform. It is an approach that forces racism into the festering shadows. I prefer ridicule and to show the empty worthless nature of the assumptions and prejudice underlying racism for what they are by exposing them and demolishing them with good argument.

This has got to be the most idiotic thing I have ever read.

From my experience, advertising banners don't make much money anyway. They make the website look pretty, apparently. And another thing, while we're on the technical part of blogging, GUIDO needs to have more interaction and something of value on his blog other than comments. His blog offers nothing other than a space for people to rant off. When I go on it I am off it in less than a minute. He needs to up his game if he wants to stay ahead of the game - I am neutral ofcourse.

Sheesh Derek, will you not leave it alone? Bait GuF on your new personal blog? You will surely put off readers and contributors if you continue this stuff here.

There are things we can change and things we cannot change. The wisdom to know the difference and work only on the former is like diamonds.

Demanding Guido change is a waste of breath and short of making what he and/or his muppety window lickers do illegal we have no agency there.

I'm not taking down my link to this convicted drunk driver and fighter, I'm not going to stop linking to stories that GuF the bankrupt concocts, and I'm going to continue to keep an eye on the output of this shameless tax avoider ... and to call him out when he's particularly wrong.

These Tory supporting bloggers are advertising the sleazy souls of the right. Why do you want them to stop wearing their dark hearts on their sleeves?

People who read Guido know what they are getting into, repeating it all on a site that claims to be above such things is not advancing the cause.

But thank you for your considered response.

ummm. don't you care about racism, then

DON'T we stand up to racists?

For God's sake man

pity you

no one knows who you are

racism is bad etiquette anywhere chris

its not brooding, its campaigning, its how we achieve change

indeed he was, shameful

Great idea. can you send a list so we can all do it?

As a 'professional psychotherapist' in your other life, I'd expect you not to put words in my mouth.

I find this rather concerning and it seems to be forming rather unsavoury pattern which as a 3x Labour voter I really find completely unattactive.

To be clear, I said it was not the role of this site or your role as Editor to conduct a bitch-fight here. I also said it I wanted to debate big issues that voters care about. I very much doubt on a scale of 1:100000000000000000000000000000 that most voters have heard of Mr Fawkes' blog, care what you think of it and even less about the personal feud you as Editor are promoting.

Just for a moment, stop typing and think what impression you are giving to people who believed in Tony, voted for him again and again despite all the nasty in-fighting and have been left with a legacy of Mr Brown and a) economic depression b) nationalised banks c)13 yr old dads d) a Home Sec who has abused the expenses system e)Labour peers taking wheelbarrows of cash for LAWS. I'll stop there before I slash my wrists.

What on earth has our party come to and all you can do it chant SCRAP SCRAP SCRAP?

Well, I AM a racist, a sexist and a homophobe.

What are you gonna do about it, Derek?

I have racist, homophobic AND sexist comments over at my place.

Which is why I have gone from zero to the 11th most influencial blog in the UK in six months

Go on, sue me.

This spat between Labour and Tory bloggers is really getting boring and somewhat pathetic. This really does show the blogosphere in a bad light. It's not big and it's not clever. There is one reason ofcourse why people 'link' to sites such as GUIDO FAWKES' and Iain Dale and that is because they pull lower ranked sites higher up the rankings in the search engines. I suggest all of you bloggers, Labour and Tory involved, read the blog profits blueprint by Yaro Starak and understand the real etiquette of blogging etc. (as an aside I think the comments on GUIDO FAWKES' are pathetic)and that's coming from a Tory supporter.)

I stand corrected Mr draper, but so many of your posts, if you'll allow me to say so, read like a student agiprop group. People "must" do this, people "must do that. Dale "must" apologise: well, he isn't going to is he?. So you mighht as well forget your dfemands and move on. Do you suggest as a psycotherapist people obsess and brood like you do yourself?

Aren't they a lovely bunch? I'm sure David Cameron will appreciate their concerted effort to re-contaminate his brand. Perhaps they are UKiP or BNP members? Nice. Surely Guido was inciting verbal pollution on his blog?

I have started contacting the advertisers on Guido Fawke’s website and am alerting them that their products are appearing alongside racist comment. I am informing them that I for one will not be purchasing or using any of their products or service while they remain associated with this type of content.
I would suggest that anyone else who finds this sort of material offensive should do the same.

Derek, I disagree with you.

Whilst you're entitled to remove the link on your site, it's unfair to expect others to do the same.

Guido Fawkes' site is notorious for its lack of moderation. If people want to leave repulsive racist messages then that's their poor choice. At the end of the day Derek, we have freedom of speech in this country and people should be able to say what they like (providing it doesn't incite violence - which these comments clearly don't).

Guido does things his way and you do things your way. Respect each others' differences.

And this personal vendetta you seem to have against both Iain Dale and Paul Staines really is getting boring.

no-one is debating with them. to guido and his pals racism is one big joke and its a disgrace. those that link to him are culpable and should be ashamed of themselves. do you have no morals jack?

exactly!

so you don't care about someone providing a prominent platform for racists then.?

Considering you are, effectively, seeking in the round, to promote/protect a Prime Minister who sounded the BNP dog whistle of 'British Jobs for British Workers', I'm surprised you have the temerity to bark at Guido for the tone of some comments left on his blog. Arguably they should be deleted but is it not more instructive to read these comments than to run a ruthless moderation policy and yet claim to be endorsing free (i.e. non-censored) speech?

Also Gordon's pathetic attempts to ingratiate himself with ethnic minorities *should* be widely pilloried.

uummm . NO

you know tim, it isn't a vendatta, its about standing up against racists like these people he allows to pollute his blog

uummm.. our lunchtime list attacked prince harry at the time, in fact i recall he was our "zero" of the day

Hmmm conditional free speech. I was never happy when various special interest groups tried to stifle free speech with the whole "No Platform for (pick a thing you don't like)" thing. The cure is to make your argument and win. To do this, you must also be prepared to lose the argument. "No Platform" always seemed to me to be the resort of those who were concerned that they might lose the argument.It looks weak because it is a weak response. Anyway....

You have the right to remove links to Guido Fawkes' blog from LabourList but from where do you draw the authority to call for Iain Dale and ConservativeHome do the same? Why must Iain Dale remove the link? As I see it you are asserting "No Platform" as a moral imperative. Refusal to debate racists out of the park is one of the many things that allow the BNP to don the victim jacket that they wear so well and so often.

And another thing, accepting and extending the analysis that each publication of a child abuse picture is a new abuse of the child, is your own publication of the racist comments left by bloggers at Guido just more racism regardless of context.

If you won't engage with an argument as to why the sort of casual golf clubby racism displayed above is wrong, what does that leave you with. Do you believe this area would be a suitable case for legislation in the next parliament? Perhaps an Anti Social Blogging Order with criminal sanctions for those who publish "Hate Speech" or link to purveyors of "Hate Speech" would fit the bill. I hope not because that would be a rose in the lapel of the victim jacket.

detach from the personal. and look beyond. why do yu misinterpret?

Mr Draper is doing sterling work re the Tory props. He has as far as I can see a number of roles and one of them is to bring the subject decency to the table across which these individuals make their case,

ALAN,your viewpoint is like indescribable Maths,having no numerical meaning,having more than one variable and an unlimited number of solutions!

*yawn*

Is this really the most pressing thing that voters are asking about? I thought Labourlist was about bringing Labour minded people together. It's not, its the place where you massage your own ego and smear bloggers you are in competition with.

No one is interested in your playground chanting, please desist. You are meant to be this site's Editor - stop using it to fight your own risible bitch-fight. The last proprietor who behaved like this was Capt Bob of the Mirror - or perhaps Mr M Fayed. Give us all a break and pack it in.

Um, "Have you been CRB Checked?" is a racist comment?

The obvious inference is that this is being said by the little boy to the Prime Minister - enquiring whether he has been cleared as suitable to work with children.

However, if you assume that it is the prime minister saying it to the little boy, you are suggesting that the little boy needed to be checked for criminality. Why would you think that unless you were a little bit, well, racist.

I'm with Guido on this one, and no I don't mean I am a racist (but that declaration probably wont spare me from being called one) I mean that you should GROW UP.

And dragging Iain Dale into it because you are still bitter is really rather pathetic. It is schoolground name calling and beneath the lofty ideals you say his site espouses.

btw isnt repeating said offensive comments just as bad as Guidos site hosting them in the first place?

Derek,

Great work on the blog. It's the best Labour blog by a mile, but please give the Guido Fawkes vendetta thing a rest. It's very, very boring and makes you look like a bit of a ****.

Guido says on his site "The comments policy is arbitrary and inconsistent."

I sincerely doubt that Derek Draper can do anything to change that.

I thought the Guido comment sections were notorious for their lack of moderation? The policy he seems to take is that all is fair game unless it attacks him personally.

Your posts Mr draper are always about your personal venedttas. I am surprised you had nothing to say about Prince Harry's latest gaffe - if you really do care that much.

I pout it to you that you must have had a deprived childhood and felt you were not given enough attention. Your every post is all "me, me, me".

You never ahve anything to say about pressing matters that are somewhat embarrassing for the government: for example the fact that James Crosby is a frkiend of Mr Brown's - which is no doubt why he defended him so much yesterday, seeming to doubt Mr Moore's word.

Today yet another large retail chain (Barratts and Priceless) tipped over into administration - that coupled with the others, Woolworths, Adams, Zavvi etc doesn't show your friend Mandelson in a good light. But you never have anything to say about such things.

I suggest this website is all about brushing your ego - the fact that you decide to show us your "Twitter" links (and what a pointless name for a pointless occupation) confirms you care more about yourself than anything else.

(And I bet this post gets edited out like others)

"Guido's refusal to take a heavy handed moderation policy is one of the best things about his site."

Sorry Pierre your wrong. I have posted many comments regarding Paul’s drug peddling past but he never wants to publish them. Censorship of the truth is a far greater crime that censorship of bigotry.

given that we as a country need to united in times such as these, how do think that racism helps?

super!

Alas, I am unsurprised by these comments. Maybe I've been on the internet too long, but these sort of responses are typical.

I probably wouldn't mind racially risky jokes if they were at least funny, but these captions are just stupid. There's nothing clever or witty about them.

EPIC FAIL Guido Readers.

Oh, please. The economy's crumbling, even our beloved leader admits we're in a "depression" and this is the best you can come up with?

At the very least, if you must carry on flogging this dead horse, change the post title. 'Guido Fawkes' racist comments have to stop' is deliberately misleading. Guido has no control over what comments people post. They are not his racist comments. They are comments, with racial overtones, you have selected out of hundreds of other comments, by people who may or may not be racist who happen to READ Guido.

Accusing Guido of being a racist because people who enjoy a racist joke visit his site?

Come on. You are implying in this post title that Guido is a racist making racist comments himself. Unless you've any evidence of that, I suggest you give up on the personal attacks. You're just not that good at it.

Guido's refusal to take a heavy handed moderation policy is one of the best things about his site. Racism should be combated with words, not with stalinist censorship. If you don't like it, by all means write about it. Argue. But don't argue for censorship.

PS - the Labour party was happy to discrimiante against "toffs" in its risible campaign against Timpson in Crewe & Nantwich. Why is this any different? Surely picking on anyone for their background is wrong. Or are you only trying to pander to the "loyal" minority vote?

discrimination based on prejudice is wrong! on every level, in life ! we all have this from within us to ostracize prejudice in all its forms !