George Osborne's Chimney Sweep and other new abuses

I really like your sense of humour Alex! Keep up the great work...

Dickens certainly would have had a field day.

Hi Alex

Well done for updating the post , Honesty is the best way ( Like you did before with the baltimore pice) , Kepp this policy and you will be ok .


Danny

What about wee Dougies claim too? You didnt mention that one - why not?

I wasn't aware of it when I published this.

And as they say in Scotland 'Lang may his lumm reek'

Well you are now Alex so will you have a go at him too in the interest of fairness?

http://dizzythinks.net/2009/12/labourlist-cocks-up-with-chimney-sweep.html

@Thomas Fairfax.
Thanks, but I'm on a seven-year old laptop running Windows XP and Internet Explorer.
Maybe it's just me, but selection of how to view doesn't work.

I also have to log in every time, using a cramped field which isn't big enough for a full email address. Maybe the intention is to foster nostalgia for the old days, when there would be squint posters hanging off the walls at election meetings.
Not sure this kind of bumbling approach works any more.

@Hamish D,
Ok I agree. IE 8 and XP doesn't appear to work. Maybe Alex's page designer has Vista or Windows 7 (IE 8 and Win 7 does appear OK)

Hi guys, I think the pages are designed with newer computers in mind, because they're done, somehow, based on users' most commonly used browsers, etc. The site's always developing an changing in very subtle ways, so this problem will go on my list!

A

I switched to Firefox a year ago and have not regretted it.
No issues at all on this site and I view it on normal and Widescreen and using XP..

IE is pants. Firefox is more stable, faster, has lots of add ons and more secure...Even I at my great age managed to switch so all you young people...

Alex,
I think we should take the opportunity to direct a prospective Chancellor in the direction of a chimney sweep, or anyone else, who isn't only trying to rip him off, but clearly succeeding.

He obviously has no idea how to get value for money.

The local sweep around here charges a mere £30 a go, and it's still cheaper to buy the rods off ebay and do it yourself.

Of course boy George may just be as guilty of being as frivolous with public money as he accuses the government.

What a choice we have before us at the election.

@Hamish D,
Firefox is slightly ropey as well. Seems only Internet Explorer works OK, but I can't bring myself to use it.

Hopefully you're not stuck with a Mac and a limited choice.

Thanks Alex,
Re 2, I see the drop-down menu, but it makes no difference what I select, I get latest comment first.

You say "LL accounts are already published elsewhere! You just have to look for them!"
Don't be such a tease, just post a link.
It was widely reported that ll was initially bankrolled by the unions. Prove it isn't so. Or be proud of the fact.

Talking of George Osborne, apparently he and Ken Clarke are visiting Derby today!

See: "Osborne and Clarke send out positive message to Derby's manufacturers during city visit."(Derby Telegraph/web.)

It may be no coincidence that yesterday the Telegraph were reporting criticism of the budget and the possible impact on Derbyshire; also that Peter Mandelson has previously visited and been quite active in the local region supporting businesses.

Here we go!!!

Alex, I add my voice to the compliments that have been made to you. There is no doubt that you have improved labourlist greatly.
But I have some questions, some political, some technical.

1. Originally labourlist was presented as a forum for labour-minded people. Now it seems to be for Labour, with a capital L (ie the Labour party).
When did that change?

2. When will ll implement a more flexible way of viewing comments? Indentation to show who is relying to whom?
Or at least the option to view comments in chronological order.

3. When will ll introduce a limit on the number of comments any one person can post in one day? No, that would be censorship; by all means accept and publish them. But implement an algorithm that allows visitors to the site to express their preference.

4. Your post was all about probity and expenses.
So, when will ll publish the labourlist accounts?
"As a grassroots, Labour supporting website still in its first year of existence, we rely entirely on small donations from our readers and from people who share our aims, in order just to survive and continue our work."

5. As others have pointed out, Labour ministers have claimed for having their chimneys swept. Was it pure coincidence that you singled out George Osborne?

Hi Hamish,

1. That's never changed. The intention is to represent all angles of thinking in the party. So that's travelling supporters, critics with good intentions, councillors, mps, etc. Perhaps the site editorially has been more supportive in the last couple of months than when I first took over. But we are a few months away from an election, and I think that maybe reflects a general rallying around because of the circumstances. There are still people writing here who are readers - Peter Barnard wrote today, for instance. Ralph Baldwin writes things. Etc. I guess when you say Labour and labour, you're referring to think thanks over ordinary voters. I am conscious of finding a balance, though, so will consider the direction further, as I always do.

2. There are options now to view comments in different ways. At the top of the comments field is a drop down menu: "Classic - latest comments last" is chronological.

3. The comments threads generally are always uner review. I want to bring more comments in from elsewhere, eg Facebook, which always has robust debate on the posts. But I don't want to limit the number of comments people can write in a day. This is their site, not mine.

4. LL accounts are already published elsewhere! You just have to look for them!

5. I don't suppose it was "coincidence" that made me publish the Osborne thing. It was playfullness, by all means, but it was to caveat the more serious, previous post.

Alex

Alex

Regarding no. 2

The options for viewing comments do not work if you're using the Safari browser on a Mac. This is just my opinion, but if you've paid for someone to re-design the site, they should really have ensured that it's compatible with all browsers.

The expenses saga has affected all parties, and may have more to do with a severely out of date system than most individual MP's.
The fault is that no party thought to reform this until the Telegraph exposed. Maybe it has more to do with naivete, and institutionalization of pariamentary systems rather than deliberate wrong doing?

Although I must admit- the example of a duck island and repairing a bell tower does make one question! Maybe again that just reflects the lifestyles of a few wealthy MP's- although I'd imagine most are fairly ordinary mortals like the rest of us!

I think it's time to move on, and concentrate on policy differences and offerings of the parties pre election.

Never mind Osbourne's chimney - where the hell does Brown actually live?

The only house he owns he lists as his second home so he can claim expenses for it, but Downing Street and Chequers are grace-and-favour so he doesn't have any rent to pay on them.

He's living for free on my taxes which his mate Darling has just increased.

Thanks Gabe- yes I can appreciate personalities from other parties too- including Anne Widecombe! I think what people respond to best is honesty and humour- not spin from an quarter...
But I think that exists as a self protective mechanism against the media etc; the probem is- it totally turns the public off.

Party politics wise- I'm a committed Labour supporter, although I share some of the criticisms of other posters.I think New Labour was too much a "spun creation"- but that is understandable in the 90's, when trying to gain power and appeal to the "middle gound."
It was an acheivemnt at the time; but now it is imperitive to
re connect and address public concerns and deep seated social issues.
I think the agenda must not get sabotaged and sidetracked by the MP's expenses saga etc- although a big issue, it has been addressed.It must be time to concentrate on policy differences between the parties, and pulling together to improve quality of life and greater equality during what will be very austere times for years.

Personally I'd welcome a more consensual style of politics in the Commons- not this out of date "ya boo hiss mode"- which puts the public off.

Anyway, just sharing a few thoughts- and wishing you luck too Gabe.
I hope some of us can contribute some good ideas to the Labour movement and politics in general, and find some common ground.

Hi Hazico, thanks - with you all the way. This article is clearly light-hearted. It's similar to the way Boris twittered 'the Sun has got his hat on, hip hip hip hooray...' after the Labour conference.

Actually, I think part of the reason Boris is so popular, as a person (to be honest, even I'm a fan...) is that he's clearly got quite a good sense of humour. It's hard not to warm to him.

I think part of the reason people are still so unsure of Osborne and Cameron is that they don't come across as being very personable. Cameron's sense of humour seems to be very sneery and aggressive. The only times I've heard him telling jokes were doing fake German accents and his range of 'bunker' quips.

Gabe- I've just returned to the site briefly, and want to say I'm in total agreement with you.I'd also like to say Alex has created a fantastic site and democratic forum for the benefit of us all.
The articles on here are brilliant, and I've learnt a lot.

But also I agree with you that we all have a responsibility not to abuse the forum and overstep the mark.
Personal insults and aggression should not be allowed on any site where people are offering genuine opinions and sharing their personal experiences.

Looking at this very brief commentary- it looks light hearted, and in keeping with commonly held opinions- so hardly offensive.
The only conclusion I can draw is that some didn't like criticism of George Osborne! Which is rather surprising considering the amount of vitriole Labour gets from some bloggers on here;(not that I'm supporting any kind of vitriole.)

I like to hear diverse views and debate, but sometimes it is surprising how much pro Tory views are expressed on a Labour campaigning site?

Anyway- I sincerely hope we can continue adding our valuable insights, and finding some common ground- and perhaps with the occasional bit of humour!

Thanks so much again Alex, and other posters- I really appreciate hearing your views.

Hi Labourlist

One question this expenses affair begs is , What did they actully spend there wages on ?


Danny

Evewrybody and even Gordon Brown, Knows we have to try and pay back our loans. But why as i believe Gordon Brown is trying, do it wih as much disruption to our lives as possible. What real difference will it make if we take a little longer, and the press just love a fallout. Two words of disagreement becomes a whole passage on their pages, lets not encourage them.

Ralph

Just wanted to make a quick clarification. Open political debate is great. What I object to is aggressive, personal attacks and, unfortunately, it sounds like that's what happened.

Thanks

Sorry Gabe but that really is kettle and pots. I think Ralph made a fair point.

@Gabe,

Nobody likes personal attacks but this is politics Gabe. People are very angry and that anger is justified, if occasionally misdirected by many of us who actually have a clue as to what is happening in this country. I seem to remember having to once explaining to you what Parliament is. I think it was one of my first ever contributions to Labourlist.

Please don't make the same mistake as is being made by our very foolish MP's. They did deliberately fight tooth and nail in the courts to prevent the truth about their expenses being exposed, this was not a "story in the paper" it was a Court case and was fully documented.

They didn't have our best interests at heart at all.

If you want Gabe, to see the reforms you yourself have advocated then you need to begin to recognise the difference between those people who do care and can make such ideas become realised and those who simply use ideas, cast them away for their own advancement.

The Country is crying out for more of the former and none of the latter.

Hi Ralph: the problem is that to get into a position to have any influence you have to be part of the system. I used to think that I wanted to be an MP: because I wanted (and still do) to make a difference in my community. But as soon as I got involved in local politics I saw that the only way to progress would be to become part of a system which I intensely dislike. I would need to compromise my beliefs for the Party-line and play politics. This isn't a party political point: I tried joining Labour, the Lib Dems and the Greens. They were all the same, at a local level anyway.

The paradox is that the system won't change until the system changes.

Gabe,

You seem to delight in calling Opposition MPs names. Like 'Cast Iron'.

Don't be surprised if you set out your stall that you get a few returns.

Some people on here maintain that even though things are bad, the conservatives are not a credible alternative...

This is only true if you believe the hyperbole emanating from Whitehall, and irrespective of that argument, I believe that Labour aren't a credible alternative either.

Derek Barber - (or should that read Draper) We all know that your preferred method of 'going to town on people on here' really means shouting nonsense longer louder and with more vitriol, forcing anyone else to just give up in exasperation. I find your puerile jottings both uninspirational and with an unrivalled level of spin - the thing is, your wasting your time, we can all see through the cr*p.

Agree with you David. Darling strikes me as a practical, honest man. Unfortunately Brown's personal desperation to be re-elected and the personal desperation of Ed Balls to be the next leader, do not allow Darling the power he should have to make decisions. Darling commands far more respect than either of this dreadful pair. Interesting to know whether the leak re. Brown and Balls overrulling the Treasury on the PBR is true. Certainly it is very believable. The personal ambitions of Brown and Balls are just so transparent to the British public, and they are a drag on the Labour Party.

Am 100% with you on this. I think darling was a good choice for the job and Brown should let him get on with it. If he did he might have even had a chance next May however I think most people can see through his lust for staying as PM.

Personally, I think the "joyriders" remark was spot-on.

Balls has shown himself to be incompetent with his schools brief, the idea of him as Chancellor chills my blood.

The fact he is the unofficial Chancellor comes as no surprise.

Alex,

Unreserved apologies. On reflection my fury at what is happening was directed at you. I cant see an answer to the problems we have and it is wrong.

The PBR was weak and politically motivated and here we are having a conversation about Chimneys. Yesterday there was significant media analysis. Todays news suggests that Gordon Brown intervened overruled Mr Darling on VAT.

From the BBC:
"Officially the Treasury says Chancellor Alistair Darling devised the plans, but the BBC understands he wanted to go further on tackling the £178bn deficit.

However, months before an election, Gordon Brown wanted existing pledges to boost spending by £30bn maintained."

I may be naive, I do not do electioneering. I am concerned about doing the right thing. If Mr Mr Darling felt that the country needed to tackle the deficit then that was the right thing to do. Gordon Brown has interferred because of his own chances of getting re elected. I keep pointing out everybody but the poor can afford this.

Good graceful apology, John. The following points are well made too. Personally I think that Darling is a very honest and good Chancellor, who is being hamstrung by GB's cynical political game-play.

@Critics of Labourlist and Alex

Since I have started using this site from June 2009 I have found what I can only describe as a strange place to speak clearly and cleanly (mostly) about the political matters, whether they be wonderful moments, sad moments or even the enduring agony that most people using this recognise in that is our current political settlement.

I have enjoyed free debate and I have even (with limited time and resources managed to show the faults and abuses of some people in my Party as well as speak the praises of those who I believe to offer a great contribution to the Labour Party and movement.

This would not be possible on most sites for the very reason that Gabe mentions on "banning people". Thank heavens he does not control Labour list it will become an agree with Gabe club.

Alex has done an incredible job maintaining this site, and it has proved to be a potent platform and has even contributed albeit in a small way, to helping clean up the mess created by the very people who disgust most of the general public.

Under Alex's editorial expertise free thinking people who are capable of rational independent thought, who are not pathetic party drones, are able to discuss the issues sometimes calmly, sometimes passionately and sometimes with anger, that affect all our lives. Nobody familiar with this site can state for even a moment that I have not questioned and condemned even, the performance of people in the Labour Party who I think have done more than just let us all down.

Where was the censorship?

The fact Alex has to raise funds for this site, promote it, deal with the pressure of keeping it alive and therefore keeping our debate alive is to be roundly applauded by everyone.

Alex if I ever get anywhere in this madness that is politics I for one will not forget Labourlist and I encourage and celebrate more people getting involved. because it does make a difference.

How many other blog sites can actually say they have contributed to actually enabling people to make a difference against the evil of fascism?

This site has.

The ideas and suggestions freely given from free people, Labour, Conservaitive and disenchanted Labour minded folk were taken on board and implimented. They are having a real impact on the doorstep. How do I know? A labour Councillor told me she was contacted by some people she knew (she has lived their all her life) to let her know they would not now be voting for the BNP but would come home to the Labour Party. She was over the moon.

Thanks to Alex we could do this. I say "we" because it was "we" and I think John Smith actually contributed to that along with everyone else.

Labourlist is not the PLP and it is not a dock where we can throw cabbages at Alex as if he is representative of GB and the Cabinet. Alex is not the Cabinet.

This is a special site for me and I don't think I'll ever be able to give it up as I am seriously addicted.

So thank you Alex. All your work and effort is greatly appreciated and LL is currently the best place to come to if you want a discussion on politics that can affect the real world.

The rest are just gossip columns. Keep it this way and one day all the budding hopefuls will come to this site as they recognise it is THE place to be.

Just think what we can do with Labourlist after the Battle of Barking? What adventures await?

As a Tory "troll" (who actually likes to have a debate) can I echo Ralph's comments. Alex has done an outstanding job on LabourList, especially considering what he inherited from his predecessor, and that he doesn't have the funding like ConHome.

Well done Alex and keep up the good work!

That's an eloquent contribution, Ralph, and I wholeheartedly agree.

Boy! I wish I could write like that ....

Danny in a modern democracy it is totally unjustifable for people to make law because either of patronage or of Daddy.

I want an upper house (I know lets be radical lets call it a senate) with 50% independent memebers and 50% political so the indy's hold the balance of power. I would say have 50 of each voted on in regional elections to serve terms of 7-10 years

Hi Ian

As you know i disagree about the house of lords,We dont need reform of the commons , We need reform of MPS , the whips are more importent than the voters , Thats what should change .

Danny

nothing new in any of these 'revelations' they do not add to wht we knew, we just have to hope for any of us in politics, left or right' that they can do the right things and not just what they see as spin and doing the 'right thing'

none of thi can be solved by simple changes to expenses but the whole system has to change and be modernised from PR, the the ancient and stupid practices, to expenses, to the house of lords, to a way of spliting the exective from the legisture, from devolving power.

If we are out of power then come june 2010 the new leader should shake the whole party up and be a big reformer and show there is a radical alternative.

Hi Gabe

Mary Popins was brilliant ,I did like diangios murder ( That was great ) I cant get the link ( Rubish broadband)


Danny

PS sorry for going off topic Alex

Hi Danny

Yeh, I'm a big Dick Van Dyke fan.

Hi Gabe

Was the last line out of mary popins?

Danny

Alex, the site is great.

As a Labour member, I appreciate the massive value of independent grassroots platforms, but it’s also nice to see news updates with a Labour perspective. It's a Labour site, for Labour people, who want to read Labour updates.

Taking it that's also aimed at Mr Alexander Gabe?

>>> Embarresed

Hi Alex

Opps , Sorry .


Danny

Hi Alex

They havent? I thought the comments where at me ? For calling you a proxy for number 10 ?

Danny

No, the comment was for John Smith.

The desparate thing about John Smith is, what exactly is he pretaining to?. Does he seriously think that the tories are a credible alternative?.

Why has no tory front bench shadow minister said that they would reverse the NI tax?.A couple of days ago the likes of John Smith were saying the tories would cut NI contributions.

Unfortunately I don't think Labour are credible enough to run the country again either. Certainly not this lot!

Hi Labourlist


Ok I am sorry , Please Alex and Labourlist acpect my apologie ?


Danny

Ricki! No one has any truck with you!

Hi Alex( sorry for being a pain)

You have made this 100% better and i cant thank you enough for making this site more welcoming .


Danny

Hi Alex

Sorry for questioning your judgement


Danny

You're a good man, Alex Smith, doing a good job.

I have never had cause to think of you as a poodle of government.

Alex, Obama collected his noble peace prize today, just before he collected the prize he gave a speech about his responsibility as a world leader and his decision to defend the free worlds interest.

Alex the best of people have made their minds up about there choices and yet at all times they remain open minded to critics and tolerate to some extremist.

So far Alex your doing all the right moves and sometimes guy's like me! could really go too town with some of the poster on here.

Hi Alex

What about George Osborne's apparent £180 claim for a Chimney Sweep?

Unless you were Dickens, you really couldn't make it up.


Thats nothing is it Alex ? Mr Davis ( Aminister in the cabnit ) Treid claiming for his belltower? 20 grand , Alex why was that not on the post?

Danny

Hi Alex

You didnt mention Mr Balls and his footie subs ? Have number 10 sunk this low? . Is this a independet site or Number 10 by proxy ?


Danny

Hi Alex

What about Mr Quientin Davis and his bell tower ? Are playing politics with expenses?

Danny

Alex, Well done your site is fine, and i think MPs will have some very tough questions asked of them, up and down the country. I know i have one or two for ours. Everybody is wating to see what happens next.

Maybe we will finally get to know just what Cameron did claim for his second home. The quasi desire to point in one direction is pure drama and negates the collective actions to clean this mess up.

It would seem that John Smith and Mike Thomas are playing the Teewdledum and Teewdledee act like a dreadful twin set from the x rated factor. Woefully weak show chaps. J-Homas

First visit to the site in a while - thought Alex's post was a light hearted one meant to reflect the extent to which MP's expect every cost of their existance to be paid by us and not via their own salary.
Lighten up people!

Agree with the comments below.

Lets not forget that LabourList is the best of the bunch of left/Labour blogs and certainly the busiest

Lets not forget that before Alex we had Dolly running this place.

Alex is passionate about what he does even though sometimes he lets his devotion to the Labour brand cloud his judgement he sometimes strays from the script so stop the abuse.

PS - I think Alex must have a couple of helpers on the mod front - Alex seems to let just about everything through - his helpers are more from the politburo school of moderation.

...... his helpers are more from the politburo school of moderation.


That explains alot

There are no helpers.

My apologies then Alex - I thought you must have help on this place. How the fxxx do you manage to run this place and earn a living? 15 hours a day? Thats a killer.

Anyway - thanks for your works and effort.

15 hours is short! It's the raising the money that's the hard bit!

Aaah, You're a young man, Alex Smith ; 15 hours should be a doddle .... :-)

Sorry but why is having a chimney sweep so Dickensian? This betrays more about where YOU come from Alex than George Osborne.

Up here in Barnsley a fair proportion of us have a visit from the chimney sweep every year. We save the £180 because my better half has his own set of brushes. We used to send the kids up but now they're too fat.

What baffles me is Gordon Brown paying £2,700 for having his bog decorated. I could have my whole house done for that and still have change to decorate the shed, sorry `summer house'.

So are you going to go round saying `George Osborne is so posh he has a chimney sweep' to get votes at the election? We'll be thinking we've gone up in the world in Yorkshire.

I think claiming it on expenses in Dickensian!

Why is it any different for claiming for gardening ?

It's not. There's a serious post about the general malaise, and this one- one which highlights what I thought was a particularly bad early example.

@John - it is not 'poor' to have posts deleted if they are as offensive as the one listed below.

I agree. Alex is doing a great job with this site and doesn't deserve that sort of abuse.

@ David Honour, " Alex is doing a great job with this site and doesn't deserve that sort of abuse."

I'll second that.

Barbara Follett: £384 bill for eight chimneys swept at her Soho property

Douglas Alexander: £105 to have it swept; £928 to have it relined.

"Barbara Follett: £384 bill for eight chimneys swept at her Soho property"

Her family are multi-multi-millionaires! This is just sick, these people have no shame. Didn't she also hire a private police force at our expense?

This man is now deleting my posts. That is so poor.

Actually john, that was someone else

Actually john, that was someone else

This will only stick to LL as an example of a drowning man clutching at straws. It's no different than having an engineer come round to check that the boiler is safe and working well.

A chimney sweep is essential. A duck house is not. No comparison.

The caption reminds of a book called Blincoe story, The Real Oliver Twist, if you have not read it yet. Please Try it tells of why we must strive, to rid ourselves of a two or three tiered society.

FFS Alex - come on dude, you're WAAAAY better than this and I can't believe that you're moronic enough not to know that chimney's need sweeping.
'
Surely isn't the irony of man of the people Brown having a servant much much more amusing?

"FFS Alex - come on dude, you're WAAAAY better than this and I can't believe that you're moronic enough not to know that chimney's need sweeping.
'
Surely isn't the irony of man of the people Brown having a servant much much more amusing?"

Alex Smith is not an objective person, as he has said before he will do anything for a Labour government, to my mind even if that means royally shafting the core electorate and the working clkasses. He stands for Labour and not the people that Labour purports to stand for. This is why he will post trash of this nature. A very sick individual. His salary is dependent on publishing this rubbish.

THE STUPID MAN CANT SEE BEYOD THE RE ELECTION OF A LABOUR GOVERNMENT TO REALISE HOW BADLY LABOUR HAVE LET THE PEOPLE DOWN. I HAVE REAL ISSUES WITH HIM FOR IT.

Alex, I care about the working classes of the UK and that is what I have such a low opinion of you. Brown and Co have KILLED us and all you are are a sorry apologist for them. May I suggest yoiu get the razor blades and do the decent thing?
DONT ask me for an article, you know I’m not clever enough to write one, you need to wake up.


Were getting killed, and your telling me how the other guy would be fasteronm the trigger, what kind of stupid person are you????????

John, I just wanted to respond to your comments, if I may.

Disagree with my editorial policy, by all means, but please don't use language like that - which is frankly more upsetting than it is frustrating.

On this post, and the other one that annoyed you yesterday, I understand why you're annoyed. You think I'm toeing a party line, I'm being directed by the party, I'm spinning things. I understand that.

This is a lighthearted jibe at something I think is wrong is something I put together in 1 minute, just before I left earlier to go to a meeting. I'm offended by this as I'm offended by all the expense abuses; each is wrong - as I said in the earlier post which criticised all the leaders who have "damaged our democracy", as I said.

Perhaps this particular item is too partisan, perhaps I should have tried to highlight others' misdemeanours equally. After the previous post in which I did do that, I didn't feel that was necessary.

On the post yesterday on the PBR, I said it was a PBR that had its heart in the right place, but I was critical that it didn't go far enough. Those were my views within 20 minutes of the speech; they didn't claim to be definitive. After that, I gave space to the more critical views from the press.

If you would like to see places where I've been critical of the party or leaders, or trying to lobby the party, or trying to promote the views of the "disenfranchised" working classes, as I called them in the first post today, they are here:

http://www.labourlist.org/cut-trident-in-the-pbr-not-public-services

http://www.labourlist.org/caroline-flint-interview-alex-smith

http://www.labourlist.org/blind-need-white-working-class-immigration-debate-alex-smith

http://www.labourlist.org/blind-need-white-working-class-immigration-debate-alex-smith

http://www.labourlist.org/iraq-blair-firm-us-alliance-buy-support-euro

http://www.labourlist.org/michael-meacher-organising-for-a-coalition-for-labour-victory

http://www.labourlist.org/new-ideas-renewed-movement-letter-ed-miliband

http://www.labourlist.org/politician-of-the-year-for-2009-is-er

http://www.labourlist.org/the-drugs-dont-work

http://www.labourlist.org/david-miliband-eu-foriegn-minister-kill-party-alex-smith

http://www.labourlist.org/defence-secretaries-held-account-nimrod-mod-failings

http://www.labourlist.org/reeling-in-the-bankers-bonuses

http://www.labourlist.org/the-longest-recession-on-record

In fact, listing all the critical and questioning articles is not really worth it. They're all under my profile and you can see for yourself. If you want one that shows I'm not at the behest of the party, try this one.

http://www.labourlist.org/gordon_brown_recall_the_better_angels_of_your_nature

I ha a lot of criticism from the party for that, as you'd imagine.

I have never said "I would do anything" for a Labour government. Actually, I only joined the party 2 years ago. I'm not partisan. I think there's good in other parties' plans. In fact, I'm not even hyper-political 0 or I wans't until this year. I didn't stand for any positions at college, I'm not part of some clique. I'm a normal guy who wants schools to be better.

That's why I'm doing this, and actually, my time spent talking to people on doorsteps in my own area - where I grew up - and the time I spend on local schools projects are much more satisfying for me and much more like where I want to be than running this site.

That said, I work on this site for 15 hours most days, trying to provide a space where you and others can say what you want on the topics of the day. You have had carte blanche to write what you want in the comments without moderation, and I've invited you to write yourself if you'd like to. Others who have not felt confident to do that have had my help with their work so they can express their views.

Sometimes, yes, I report news that happens in the party. Is that promoting the party line or just trying to provide a space that aggregates what's happening in the party so people can discuss it?

Frankly, it may be a bit of both. I want Labour to win. I have no qualms in saying I want a Labour government. But I want a Labour government that represents us, so I got involved in the party to try and change it, not just to try and promote it.

So I think it's unfair on me to say what you said.

Tio answer some of your points directly:

* "I'm not an objective person." ACtually, I am. Sometimes that means I agree with the party, sometimes not.

* I've never said I'd do anything for a Labour government.

* I do not stand for Labour. I stand for myself and my mates I went to school with and the people I know and speak to. Most of them don't give a shit about politics. They just care about their jobs and their families and their homes an their bills. Believe me, I care more about them than anything else.

* Perhaps I post trash occasionally. I think it's clear to tell when I post something quick and easy, and when I spend time thinking about things. LL tries to cover both of those things.

* MY salary is dependent on publishing this rubbish. Seriously? I've worked incredibly hard to pay off LL's debts, to raise the money to sustain it and to even find a salary out of this. No one pays me; I have to go out, give business presentations and fundraise.

* I "can't see beyond an election." Maybe that's true. Certainly, I'm conscious that it's close an I want to be supportive. I think that's part of the job at the moment, when everyone else is so critical. But I won't say something - ever - that I don't believe. That's the thing that realy gets me about this: that you question my integrity.

* "Brown and Co have killed the working classes." I've been accused before - by others - of being complicit in diminishing civil liberties in this country, of being complicit in hurting working people. I'm not elected. I'm just trying to run a website. To clump me in with others and imply I'm part of that is completely unfair.


* "I need to wake up". For asking you to write? It never occurred to me that you don't want to write. I regularly ask people to write on here via the comments. If you feel uncomfrotable with that, I'm sorry. If you'd like me or others to help you, then please do so, and get in touch.

Finally, can I just say I - like the person who reported the comment as offensive in the first place - find your razor blade comment aggresive and frankly hideous. You've just said I should kill myself, for writing a playful skit about a politician who I think most would agree has abused our trust.

Again, please, by all means, question the editorial jugement; running a site for such diffuse thought is not easy, so I'm always open to suggestions. But please, think about what you're writing and that there's a real person who actually gives a shit at the other end of this internet thing.

Alex

Alex there is no need to let that type of comment through just to reply to it. I can't fathom how you think the present Labour lot would be good for a 4th term, but you seem a pretty decent bloke and are doing a good job (mostly) with the site.

Just delete that crap, none of us need to see it.

I disagree and think Alex was right to let it through as it gives us a better insight into other posters minds - and ultimately whether they are worth listening to.

Regards the article I think (again) Gabe's got it wrong (sorry Gabe) and whilst it might have been a light hearted jibe, a certain Dougie Alexander had his done too.

The Dickensian bit appears to be a class related comment which based on the current cabinet, scores very low where I live.

To quote a friend "you know there are Toffs in the Tory party but at least they are upfront about it, unlike Brown's bunch of (I've deleted this bit)."

If Labour is going to play the class card then I'd suggest you lose 2 Jags & 4 House Prescott along with all the other "I'm working class me" hypocrites first.

@Alex

I for one very much appreciate your hard work and the way that you provide a platform for all manner of disparate views.

Anyone further from an apparatchik I cannot imagine, but I guess John Smith and others who like to shoot the piano player have not had the privilege of meeting you face to face.

@John Smith

To you I say that while Alex is a Labour supporter he is definitely not an uncritical Labour supporter, and frankly, you should apologise to him unreservedly.

I can understand your frustration with what New Labour has become - indeed I resigned my membership years ago in sorrow - I believe that I still preserve Labour values intact.

I live in hope that even at this late stage the values of mutuality, solidarity and co-operation between sovereign individuals may yet triumph over the politics of greed and privilege which have captured Labour and Tories alike.

I can't stand Osborne, or the rest oif his Tory chums.


But New Labour Blairites are no better:


http://news.aol.co.uk/benefits-cruelty-of-cancer-patients/article/20091205210145119014416


Pur-nell knew this kind of thing would happen when he accepted amateur David Freud's reforms lock stock and barrell. There are no ifs no buts.
Victorian values. Oh yes!

@Alex

Where's GB domestic servants? You say this will stick to Osborne, I think GB having a servant will stick with the Labour core vote a little more.

Simply put, those who would have voted for GO before still will, those who would have voted for GB before maybe won't.

Sorry, Alex, I just don't understand why you think this is Dickensian ? Everybody with an open fire needs the chimney swept every couple of years or so. They don't do it by sending six year olds up chimneys either. That was stopped in 1864 by Lord Shaftesbury’s Act for the Regulation of Chimney Sweepers. Shaftesbury was a Tory by the way.

Pretty poor article.

Missed Gordon Brown's domestic servants off the list.

No wonder Gordon rails against "toffs", He must be full of guilt...

I'd put that on a par with Malik's claim for insurance on an £8k ring.

Charley flying kites again? what's your take on BBC personnalities that make as much as 18 million per ann.

Is skyTV value for money? or just another flavoured rip/off?.

If you want Sky you pay for it, no-one forces you.

I have no choice to pay for my TV license, I have to have one.

Next question Derek?

I don't have Sky Derek and don't watch sports but seeing as I am paying for half the cabinet to do so perhaps you should ask them.

There are definitely issues to be addressed regarding BBC 'personalities' as they are not a private company and should be getting value for money for license payers (not the misnomer of 'tax-payers'). But please be accurate, the £18m you mention was for a three year contract. But then you're just using that as a diversionary tactic and to change the subject aren't you. In a very very transparent way.

What do you think of 'useful idiots' who tacitly approve of and excuse criminal activity?

Quentin Davis and his bell-tower. Is that where the Labour bats live?

£20,000.

I have an open fireplace too. If you burn wood, it leaves a resin on the stack. Leave that, there's a chance you will set fire to the stack and bring it down on the house. Coal, less so but the soot can become combustible when mixed with the wood resin.

I've had mine swept, end of story. Either that or burn down the house.

Simples.

Maybe George thought it would bring him luck

Whats the problem with this - if you have an open fire (as i do) it needs to be swept... In the word of Aleksander Orlov - "Simples"

Simples, indeed.

I suppose there is some sort of comedy value in it, but only as much as in Browns summer house.

Yes, they're all as bad as each other, but this is one that will stick. It's a Duck House moment.

The Chimney Sweep thing will stick. It just will.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yu23HHmOG48

£5 says not.

Don't be daft. Anyone who has a fire has to have a chimneysweep in every now and then. It's not a sign of wealth - just of having a house outside a city.

Who said anything about wealth, Mark?

That's the spin. Don't try to pretend it isn't.

It spins itself, Mark. I haven't spinned anything, and in fact in the main post have been equally critical of all, and perhaps more of GB than others...

Its not like he's sending small children up his chimney. Is he?

I think Quentin 'Who let him join the party' Davies and his bell-tower has a certain gothic charm to it.