By John Cowan
Down in Brighton for Labour Party Conference one thing that was noticeable was the large amounts of alcohol consumed over the weekend - and not just by the conference delegates.
Most people are responsible users and are able to have a few drinks and enjoy themselves without causing damage to either others or the local environment.
However, not all drinkers and users of other substances are able to handle their use of booze in such a responsible manner. At weekends, most A&E departments house those suffering from alcohol poisoning, assaults and drink related accidents. It takes much needed resources from the NHS which could be used for other purposes.
Prohibition of alcohol, like any other drug, does not work. It was tried in the 1920s in the US and resulted in making the likes of Al Capone rich men.
One possible solution could be an entitlement card that people would carry and swipe when every time they buy Alcohol or Tobacco and record their usage. Is that too radical? I don't think so. For a long time the Government have controlled motorists with a system of licences where people enjoy the right and freedom to drive - as long as they conform to certain rules.
With the card, people who got into trouble for, say, minor crimes or drunk and disorderly conduct in public would receive a fixed penalty notice and 3 points on their entitlement card with points disappearing over time for in the same way works on driving licences.
More serious offences would result in endorsements on the entitlement card and the cardholder would not be able to purchase alcohol, tobacco or other drugs available for sale through the entitlement card scheme.
The main benefits of the policy would be reduction in the health care and crime costs associated with use of substances hopefully leading for more better functioning society.
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Don't foresee any problems at all.
Nah, only kidding, just put the on an island somewhere where they cant screw up everybody elses life.
The whole idea is utterly daft and makes me feel pleased that I recently left the Labour Party after 15 years of membership. You have completely lost touch with the ordinary people of this country.
A licence to do a legal thing?
A taxed thing?
A thing the government wants us to do 24 hours a day if we want?
Thank God you're here to put us on the straight and narrow path to Godliness.
Second, the cost of alcohol abuse. It is estimated that alcohol related issues cost the NHS about £3bn. Yes it would be nice to get that money put into other healthcare issues, but if you were to wipe out alcohol abuse, what would you do next? Most healthcare issues are due to bad choices of some kind or another: tobacco, alcohol, diet, lack of exercise. So would you next decide to force people to swipe their card when they eat a cream cake? Would they get positive points for going for a run?
This is a step too far into people's private lives. If you want to reduce drinking then the solution is education, not only of young people, but of the alcohol manufacturers who are making huge profits on the substance.
Or perhaps we should just go the whole hog and chip the entire population so that the fascist Labour regime can monitor their actions and thoughts 24/7 to deal with any impure or unauthorised thoughts
to be left alone by the Goverment.Exempt from ID Cards,
having E-mail monitered,have the right to protest in parliment
square,not to be extadited to the US/Europe,have the right to
slience when/if arrested and be exempt from Control orders.
I am sure I have forgotten one or two but that would do for a
start.Now,such a card **might just** be worth voting for.....
It is those that abuse their rights and with too little responsibility that column inches should be written about and most importantly acted upon by the law. I believe I have the right to drink whatever I like and my rights end at being slightly loud and boorish. When I descend into abuse, extreme rudeness and violence I am then irresponsible and the government can then dictate to me.
Can't really add to the comments against this already made, but clearly this is a case of devising policy whilst off your trolley on booze, with your mates down the pub.
As a doctor I was specialising primarily in Gastroenterology and Hepatology (Livers and guts) and so I have a particular interest in alcoholic liver disease but this is one of the most disgraceful, incompetent and dangerous policy proposals I have ever read on several levels.
1) The cost involved (likely to rival or exceed ID cards) to pay for scanners, the cards and enforcement of the system this would easily stretch into the tens of billions.
2) The potentially dangerous complications. Going "cold turkey" on heroin or cocaine will not kill you but suddenly stopping drinking will kill an alcoholic. If such individuals were to lose their entitlement to alcohol and were unable to purchase it easily this may result in many deaths.
3) The difficulty in enforcing such a scheme. When we cannot even ensure that all licensed premises and tobacconists comply with current regulations regarding age how could we hope to enforce a far more complex system. Alcoholics always know the local shops willing to sell alcohol out of hours (Trust me on this Ive spent most of my 20s dealing with alcoholics and drug users in several different countries). They would undoubtedly know which shops were willing to disregard the card system.
4) There is nothing to stop someones friends from simply buying the alcohol for them even if they lose their entitlement.
5) If you limit a persons purchases with no points on their card to their own weekly recommended units then you will also penalise many normal individuals simply wishing to have a party or celebration. this would be further complicated by how the system would be implemented at weddings and other occasions.
I'm no fan of Daniel Hannan but even he would not come up with such a pathetic proposal.
I hope that the author will have the courtesy to clarify if this piece is a joke rather than sensationalist rubbish as otherwise I would suggest that he seriously consider his position as a PPC.
Frogs are not that stupid.
Maybe you should think about forwarding it to The Sun. You might get a little publicity leading up to the next election. There must be more than 63 tee-totalers in your ward.
Closing the pubs at 11 does stop them from drinking for another 2 hours or more. Drunkenness has increased since the extension of drinking hours.
Increasing the cost of alcohol will also reduce the amount consumed before they arrive at the pub, thereby reducing overall intake levels.
Closing earlier also frees up police for later in the night to help catch the thieves.
Not a perfrct solution I am the first to admit but easily enacted, easy to police and doesn't affect the vast majority of law abiding drinkers inlike the "Entitlement" card proposed here.
then activities that are dangerous
but before you know it we'll have government rationing non "socially useful" activities.
The old proverb of a frog and a pan of water is appropriate.
Put a frog in boiling water and it jumps out, but put it in a pan of cold water and slowly heat and it sits there and boils to death.
This sums up liberty and freedom in the UK. If we had jumped straight from 1997 to 2010 we'd be horrified at the loss of liberty and freedom because of this stasi government. But over a period of time we're like dumb animals not noticing as the leash gets shorter and the barbed wire fence gets put up.
I despair at what my country has become under 12 years of Labour's jackboot control freakery
I must admit I tend to your view it's a joke.
But then the author is a Labour PPC and he does not appear to be able to write with the lightness of touch of (say) Tom Harris...
so I have to assume it's meant seriously. Judging by the English of the last two lines (pedant mode on)it might have been written in a hurry to a deadline. Judging by the amount of thought input, I suspect that's correct. :-)
Next Week: John Cowan rolls out his cunning plan to implant microchips in benefits recipients. Upon entering a pub, tobacconist or betting shop their gyro-cheque explodes and their children are taken into care.
John's finger is certainly on the pulse of modern Fabianism, eh?
We have had to introduce this system to counter the damage done by the myopic, arrogant and just plain mental ideas that are foisted upon the public daily.
This article has made us all collectively dumber.
Should this madness become reality, expect capitalism to provide a solution in the guise black market providers. Oh, and how do you propose to stop the problem minority sourcing their alcohol via booze cruises?
Get real.
Lets just chip everyone and send a shock to them if they swear/drink/smoke/eat a kebab/ say tory/ diverte from the party line .
Unless this article is labourlists celebration of chinas 60 years of dictatership
ricki
Why not create a big database as well of drinkers? We can then inform them through mandatory attendance at Education Centres of the dangers of drinking too much.
Bloody hell. If this is the sort of idea Labour want to encourage then you deserve to be out of power.
It is not the pubs fault for the troubles outside. Most of the yobs with no self control drink at home (called pre-loading) and get drunk there. Publicans refuse to serve them, along with any other people who have become drunk in the course of the evening. They hang around the pubs unserved and cause trouble.
Also with smokers standing outside, they are often a target for the drunks and violence can happen. If they were inside smoking many of these problems would not occur.
You can buy a home brewing kit that works out at less than 50p a pint and if I have run out of units can I borrow a mates card or can he buy it for me?
If Labour wants to redeem itself I suggest ideas like this should be scrapped and if you want the feelgood factor to return, forthwith amend the smoking ban allowing for separate, ventilated smoking rooms.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23750503-nhs-ban-made-no-difference-to-the-number-of-smokers.do
John Cowan (Labour Party) 63 votes (3.4%)
Eloise Ellis (Conservative) 1041 votes (55.6%)
Trevor Wenman (Liberal Democrat Party) 768 votes (41%)
Total: 1880 votes (100%)
http://www.south-norfolk.gov.uk/democracy/3059_343536.asp
As for the motorists analogy, the irony in that. Yes, you used to get points for bad driving but since there are no police patrols anymore, it has turned into a stealth tax with speed cameras manned by civilians. And I'm sure Labour would find a way to tax us using this database.
Plus, the first thing I'd do is go out and buy a forged card of which I'm sure that there would be a thriving black market for. If you want me never ever to vote for Labour, just stick that in your manifesto. Either that or it's homebrew time.
Oh and for those that don't think any individual can get your name and address from the DVLA, just fill in the form below, in section 4, all you need to say is that the vehicle has been parked on your land and in section 5, put to serve a summons, job done.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_065303.pdf
How about practical solutions:
Go back to 11pm closing for pubs and 2am for nightclubs.
Ban all alcohol off-sales from 10pm til 10am including all supermarkets, corner shops etc.
Minimum pricing for alcohol for all off-sales. I don't like this idea but think it will have to be introduced. (reduced rates for red wine drinkers please *s*)
Apply the existing laws on drunkenness and publicans who sell to drunks. Lock up drunks in giant drunk tanks and make sure they clean their puke up before they leave!
As this idea is being rightly laughed at i would like to offer a way forward;
1 Icrease the fines to supermarket/off linces for selling to underage people
2 increase the checks on the supermarkets/ off lisence
3 If a shop keeps doing it take there lisence off them and ban them from selling alcohol for life
ricki
Pubs are being destroyed by forces from two directions - the high costs to tied landlords imposed by their owners, & cheap loss leaders in supermarkets, which we non drinkers subsidise every time we shop: along with the proliferation of licences to any shop that wants to sell alcohol anywhere, so people "tank up" before setting out on their night of revelling. Please allow councils to limit these licences, especially in areas where a problem is known, & stop trying to regulate individuals to the nth degree! & pass a law that prohibits using alcohol sales as a loss leader.
In fact I am so in favour, I recommend we introduce a pilot study lasting two decades starting now.
As It's a Labour Party supporter who has initiated the idea, it would only be fair if the idea applied only to ALL Labour Party members including without exception all previous Cabinet Minsters.
I am sure John Prescott and Tony Blair would heartily support it as would all TUC leaders.
And if it's a success after 20 years, we can think about implementing it on the rest of the country.
PS there will be a fine of 20 years in jail for all offenders who break the rules.
Not only is this idea completely unworkable but it had me checking the calander incase we've come round to April a little sooner than usual. Can you not see the most obvious flaw in the idea? You are advocating a wide scale network to spy on what people do with their free time and you are suggesting that a responsible adult is only responsible if a government minister says they are.
After spending a week listening to old policy ideas, poor delivery and the cuckoo clock of denial across the Labour Conference I didn't think for a minute there could be a more unsuitable policy idea to best the locking up of young mothers, but you've managed to prove me wrong yet again.
Are you really Labour minded or have you been reading a lot of books on communism over the past few weeks?
You've not quite judged the public's mood again, I see!
I notice you wrote "responsible users" instead of "drinkers", but for some people it is a drug. It's no secret that I'm an alcoholic (nearly 12 years since successful detox), but I don't agree with what you're saying.
For one thing, you shouldn't just turn off the supply of booze to alcoholics. It's their medicine, which sadly, also aids their destruction. Binge drinking troublemakers might be a different case, but how are you going to tell the difference?
I don't know what the answer is - short of everyone repenting and turning to the Lord.
Keep thinking about it though, John. You might be inspired with the answer one day.
True Labour needs a proper leader. I would suggest that most of Brown's men and women, would be quite at home in cameron's Tory party - the inane Mandy has practically admitted as much.
Oppression in the name of worthiness. I'm so looking forward to the end of Labour minded people in power.
An asolutely typical Labour control-freak policy that is illiberal, big statist, unworkable and totally stupid.
Just to address a few points:
1. The comparison to driving. We learn to drive, we pass a test, we are allowed to carry on driving unitl we are caught breaking the laws. We don't have, yet, a watchdog in the car that reports us immediately we break the speed limit. Give it time I suppose.
2. What do you do with the information? Who decides if we are drinking too much and what are the penalties? Drinking to excess is not a crime and never should be. being drunk and causing a nuisance in public is. Enforce the law. Do I get warnings that I'm drinking too much? Informed that I have to attend a compulsory alcohol awareness course if I'm drinking too much?
3. To operate it will have to be backed by a database and huge numbers of swipe terminals at every purchase point. Oh, I get it, It's either the ID database by the back door or a compulsory tesco Loyalty card.
When will you get it in your thick heads we aren't stupid, We've learned and can now spot a govenrment data base at 500 yards.
4. What happens if I'm buying for a wedding or other function? Do I get banned?
5. Point systems and bans if you break the law? We already have a system for logging when people break the law. it's called a police record. Why not use that instead of a database for the whole population, law abiding or not. We already have laws to prosecute people. use those. Oh yes, sorry, actually getting off your collective arse and doing something is so much harder than making soundbite speeches.
Do grow up and stop wasting yours and my time on such stupid ideas.
The biggest disappointment of this administration to me is this:
A problem is identified. Some new draconian law, process or data base is introduced at great expense and inconvenience to the majority of people. The government thinks it's job is done. The scheme doesn't work or isn't implemented properly so the problem gets worse. Instead of fixing the system or going back to square one a whole new, eye wateringly, expensive and useless system is loaded on top of the first. This government doesn't do things. It just creates qungoes and databases that give them a warm and fuzzy feeling. Oh yes, the new laws won't of course apply to the government ministers. as a rich person once said, "only little poeple pay taxes"
You really are insane.
I think we should follow it up by banning football.
"The other night on my way back from yet another Labour Party meeting, I made a number of silly errors on the road - nothing major, but enough to ensure the local police stopped me on suspicion of drunk driving."
Pubs are going to the wall thanks to Labour's policies. It was Labour's policies that removed Local Authority discretion to allowing mega-pubs to open in town centres. It was Labour's policy that introduce 24-hour drinking and condone two-for-one offers, happy hours and cheap loss leader alcohol in supermarkets.
People drink because Labour's policies are making life so absolutely unbearable. People drink to excess because Labour's lack of moral integrity does not say it wrong.
As for a drinking entitlement card, why not go the whole hog and make everyone over 18 have a barcode tattooed onto their arms for the state to scan?
We have laws for things like drunk and disorderly, assault and many anti-social behaviours that those that cannot hold their drink can be prosecuted for.
Here's a radical idea. Why not enforce the law? How about stiff fines for those who break the existing law and for those that serve these people more alcohol when they cannot hold it?
I agree with Konrad; yours is a wholly fascist idea and you should be utterly ashamed of yourself.
Labour have introduced 24hr drinking, allow alcohol to be sold in any shop, supermarket and petrol station (!) 24 hours a day all in the name of their mates making a profit. When I was a kid if you couldn't get in a pub (and you could from 16ish so you 'learnt' to drink with adults) then there was a funny little thing called an 'Off-licence' which was open from 9.00pm to about 9.45 didn't sell alcoholic kids' drinks, only took cash and hardly anyone dared go in. How things have changed.
Well that should win back lots of Sun voters.
How about reducing drinking hours instead?
Please please include drinking cards in the manifesto...
right we are scrapping id cards to bring you a entiltement card , Is it me or is this id cards be the back door ?
ricki
STOP TRYING TO ORDER ME TO LIVE MY LIFE HOW YOU WANT ME TO LIVE IT.
Stop trying to order the universe.
Stop telling me what to do in my own home.
Stop trying to control and cajole everyone in the country.
This is nothing more than extreme right wing drivel by someone determined to exterminate any freedom that the individual has. Labour List are very foolish to print such nonsense because all it does is show how amti-freedom the left can be.