There is no doubt these were silly juvenile ideas but that is all they were, juicy email evidence or not

Draper, Balls, Mcbride, Mandelson and our wonderful leader Brown are all nasty, devious, dirty
players who have thankfully now been found out. Good riddence to the lot of you.

You appear to believe that it is the 'right wing' that is attacking you.

As far as I am concerned, there is no longer any 'right' and 'left', these are outmoded concepts.

There is only 'right' and 'wrong', and it is about time that you and your ilk take this on board

It was a joke. I am not American either.

Minimum wage MINIMUM is the word! Attempting (there's another word) for over 10 years. So exactly what has been achieved? Also what impact is the current recession going to have on the African continent? A recession which all governments currently in power ushered in. Including, I am sorry to have to remind you, this Labour government. And just encase your are wondering, I am a socialist at heart but I would never vote for this current insidious, self serving, hypercritical, morally void excuse for a government. Shame really I actually believed, for about 3 months, that "NuLabour" had promise. A political agenda that avoided the worst of the extreme left and right arguments.

that is absolute fact jimmy boy i have voted laqbour all my life ps where were youn in the minersw strike

nice one ron,ive been supporting labour all my life im 56 now and what ive seen and heard over the past 12 years from them has absoluyly sickened me a labour government waging an illegall war a labour prime minister toadying up to the most right wing and illiterater presidant a staedy erosion of your democratic rights the party has been hijacked by a bunch of privilledged self serving carreerists who have absolutly no respect for the people who put them there.Decent people have been cnsighned tho the back benches demoralised by the likes of harperson blears straw and the biggest prick of all DRAPER how come these unelected buff HOONS like cambell mcbride really end up running the country is totally beyond belief

You think 'RedRag' is a good name? How unoriginal. So this is Labour's attempt at 'online'. Figure out google first and see what kind of far left bullsh*t websites called RedRag peddle...

The more I think about this the more disturbed I am that a psychotherapist would describe as "brilliant" the idea of slurring someone by spreading rumours about their mental health. Mental health problems carry enough stigma as it is, and it seems completely unethical for someone in the field to do this.

Want to agree absolutely with the above comment. I'm 56 years old, a life-long Labour supporter, member of the Party since 1984. And now I find myself in the ghastly position of believing that it's my duty both to the country and the Party I used to love to do everything I can to ensure that the current Labour administration is kicked out of office at the earliest possible opportunity. They are an amoral, cowardly, narrow-minded, self-serving shower, incapable of taking a decent, principled moral position on anything, or of upholding the freedoms and rights and welfare of the People. They instinctively pander to administrative convenience. They kow-tow to the Daily Mail. The answer to every problem is more control of the citizenry, more snooping, more surveillance, more private data collection, more invasion of privacy. The police and security forces must have every new power they ask for to make their jobs easier. (I'm not sure whether the police yet have the power of arrest for "looking at me in a funny way", but it can't be far off.) The police can do no wrong, even when they do. We must persist in prosecuting catastrophically disastrous wars in foreign countries which set their populations, and their numerous cousins inside the UK, against us. We must defer hearing the report of an inquiry as to how the disaster of the war in Iraq happened for as long as possible, so as to secure a minuscule political advantage. After all, it's not IMPORTANT, is it? And so on and on and on. It's sickening. It's shameful. This email saga is not in itself a big hill of beans, but what it says about the morality, integrity and sheer small-mindedness of those who now conduct our Government is so telling. Cameron will be a washout as Prime Minister, and poor people will probably suffer under the Tories, but the sore of this present Administration must be cleansed.

Do you seriously expect anyone with a jot of commonsense to believe that bullshit above, And your over the top use of words like "friend" "friends" "mate" "mates" suggests that you are a sad lonely sack of shit who has none of them.
My son used that kind of infantile denial when he was a 4 years old infant, he'd grown out of it at seven years old, which leads me to the conclusion that you are not a very good Psychotherapist, more likely that you are in need of a psychiatrist,Again!
PS, when you are evicted from Downing Street make sure you have the place fumigated.

Have to agree with you Charles. This is Trolling 101. Bizarrely, I've had a completely civil comment fail the admin procedure, and yet obvious time wasting dross like this gets a pass.

Censorship is not the same as moderation. The first involves silencing the dissent. The second merely means tamping down those who have no interest in debate or any kind of reasoned argument.

I haven't seen that troll 'echo' effect for quite a while either.

Jeez. The UK blogosphere has a long way to go.

Just add it to the things you don't understand then.

I am a Conservative as well and find all the 'Toff' talk baffling.

I was born in Sheffield in 1980 and lived less than a mile from Orgreave. My father worked in the steel works and we lived in a two up two down.

How do I fit into Draper's world view?

As a life long labour supporter (i'm 58 years old) I am disgusted by the above blog and more specifically the following excerpt:-

'doesn't what's happened show the nature of these right wing blogs? They will stop at nothing to attack Labour people – it's me this week, who will it be next week?'

What a pathetic man you are, you were not attacked but brought to justice. You and the other labour cronies and leeches have left me no other option but to spoil my ballot at the next election. You have let us all down.

Face it Draper you are history.

You have nothing to lose now - give us the dirt on the rest of the nuLabour machine.

Mandleson would be a good start - what have you got on him? (Nothing made up of course, just the truth).

"Imagine if all your emails suddenly became available to people wanting to damage you. That is, of course, the other question that needs to be asked: how were these emails obtained? Was criminal activity and hacking involved? Believe me, these are issues I will be looking at when I return from my holiday. "Blog wars" are one thing but hacking into people's emails is surely a step too far?"

If my photos were taken with a government issue camera, printed out with a governmment issue printer and stored in a government filing cabinet I would not really have a leg to stand on. Mr McBride's emails were sent from a number10.gov.uk email address and thus would be subject to scrutiny by a security officer or systems administrator within the civil service framework. Draper and McBride are either fools or simply lazy, since even a banker understands that if you really want to exchange personal and confidential emails you use hotmail, gmail, yahoo etc - all of which can be anonymous and untraceable. Hopefully from now on Draper will understand this.

Seems this Draper fellow has been a hack for Labor and a lying slimeball for some time now.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/128125.stm

The Fox condemns the trap, not himself.
William Blake. 1793. The Marriage of Heaven and Hell.

"Imagine if all your emails suddenly became available to people wanting to damage you."

Yes, I'd hate it. So why are the government intent on spying on all our emails and phone calls? Scrap the internet modernisation programme, repeal the data retention regulations and repeal the ripa clauses that give every council officer and her dog access to our communications and perhaps someone might have some sympathy.

Is that your best shot?

I believe the phrase "clutching at straws" is not inappropriate in the current circumstances.

"Seriously, dude. You need to start pimping your content better".

Oh dear, we appear to have a Kevin amongst us, I guess you hate us, and it's so unfair.

Derek Draper writes "...and feel they have been let dowm, I apologise. I would encourage them – and others - to stay with us: read the site, get involved."

King Solomon was wise. In his proverbial judgement, the parent who loved her true child would sooner relinquish her claim to it, than see it cut into two.

What will Draper do ? Will he too do the honourable thing ? Will he hang on and allow further damage. Draper love's Labourlist, can he show how much he loves it ?

So you have left this country because it is full of idiots, would you care to put a figure on this?

The population is 62 million, are we talking 10%, or 5%?

Value your input on this one, can we pin this one down with something specific.

I'am afraid your phrase "like oh so mature" gives you away sonny.

My grandson says this all the time.

I presume you mean toffs like Harriet Harman, educated at the exclusive St Paul's Girl School, member of the Longford family, with first cousins Thomas Pakenham, Lady Rachel Billington and Lady Antonia Fraser.

FFS! For the last time. It wasn't just two people emailing each other jokes. It was two people emailing plans to use fabricated stories in order to smear their political opponents, and their families. Other people were copied on the emails (so it wasn't just two of them involved). They then decided on a name for the proposed website. They registered the web domain under a different name (so as to hide their identities). And finally, they talked about planning the timing of the smear campaign. It obvious even to my 12 year old niece that the plan was to publish closer to the general election.

It may disgust you that these private emails had been stolen or hacked (although I haven't seen any proof to back you up on this). But what disgusts ME more, is that your beloved party has made it possible for this, and any future government to legally hold onto and read my private and personal emails (along with everyone else's in this once great country of ours).

I feel I may owe you an apology. You have made some very pertinent points and I feel I have misjudged you. This thread is the first time I have posted on the site and I was frustrated by the negativity of people. However, I do not accept that I support the Labour Party through blind obedience. The Labour Party has a commitment to social justice which broadly reflects my own. Yes the party has made mistakes but this has been part of an attempt to break free of old ties to the unions, to modernise and broaden its appeal with floating voters. Again not something I feel has been handled well. The problem for me is that the forces that represent the interests of wealth and privilidge behind the Conservative party are alive and well and have scant regard for ordinary people. To gain power in a recession and have to make 'tough decisions' is a dream to them. They can finally destroy public institutions like the NHS forever.

And before you start decrying Labour's record in the NHS, they have virtually achieved the 18 week wait target. Something that would have seemed impossible under Major's government. I work in the NHS and yes the wages have improved, but at my place of work we also have double the number of operating theatres, double the number of ICU/HDU beds and up to date equipment to allow us to get on with the job. There are new innovative services that improve efficiency and see more patients treated. Services that would be impossible were it not for the money pumped in by regional health commissioning authorities. Sorry to bang on about an area I know well but here is your list. Yes some have been more successful than others but these are initiatives that attempt to make life better for the many not the few.

European Human Rights Act, the Social Chapter, NHS Modernisation, ending Railtrack, Sure Start, Working Families Tax Credit, Disability Discrimination Act, London Mayor, Regional Development agencies, Winter Fuel Payments, more teachers, increased funding for education, school and college rebuilding programme, the regeneration of our cities, sustained low interest rates and economic growth, groundbreaking initiatives on Third World debt, the Gift aid scheme, more Police Officers.

This list is not exhaustive and, of course all the points on it can all be debated till the cows come home, but they are things that Labour supporters should be proud of. If you don't think so, that's fine, vote Conservative next time.

To recap:
Do I think Labour is perfect - No.
Do I think the Conservatives would be better for the UK - No.

And again please accept my apologies for my former rudeness.

I am also a working class Tory .Being poor does not make one stupid (though not eucated) and very little that the labour party have done so far has made me regret my choice of party. Having lived in the East End in the thirties I have made up my own mind on politics and have always found the labour party in power to be a disaster - now they stink to high heaven.

For over 12 years, the New Labour Party machine has aggressively and successfully controlled the media. Suddenly, the boot is on the other foot, and all I can hear is whining.

As for you, Draper, you are a sick and twisted individual, and the sooner you and those like you are out of politics for good, the better.

Haven't seen that troll tactic in a while. It's an old and childish trick to mirror stuff like that but careful analysis shows how your comment is a big lie and a wind-up.

I'd certainly nuke that comment and your account for your posting record of similar troll comments. Can't understand why Labour List lets you lot get away with it.

"I'm sorry Mike, I can't give you a list of Labour positives....."

Oh dear, what a cop-out.

You never agree or say anything nice about someone who doesn't run with the pro-Zen mob. It creates an impression and sucks regular people in, and ends up destroying forums like it's done all over the internet.

bob. nice posting BUT is this really a war or just normal political crap. yes im sure your mob are right lots of times but so are we so lets just get back to issues of truth and the love of this country

What are you, like 12? Grow up and do the job you get paid to do!!!!!

I'm no died in the wool conservative, in fact, it is my view that 90% of politicians of whatever persuasion are not sufficiently competent to wipe their own bottoms or tie their own shoelaces, let alone run a country. The same applies to the Civil Service.

This blog is just another example of bungling incompetence (or should that be incontinence?) and it comes as no surprise that the Labour Party are embarrassed by it.

Not only does Draper have an inflated opinion of his lobbying skills, but it seems that his journalistic and media presentation skills are equally deficient.

I can't wait for him to return from holiday and find that the 'leak' of his email was caused by his own circulation of it to his 'friends' when he tried to impress them with 'look, I've got a real email from No.10!'.

Keep up the good work, and for heaven's sake dig up some real dirt so that the Tories can suffer some casualties as well!

Politics - 10% luck, 20% greed, 70% bullshit.

Lex - the Blairs arrived at 10 Downing St as middle class but left as multi millionaires. You call people "toffs" - what exactly is a "toff" then? Someone who is left money by parents, grandparents etc or inherits a title (we cannot choose into whcih family we are born) or someone who makes millions out of others for doing very little?

Silly and juvenile yes & much more - written by low-life. These then are the people running the country. You Mr Draper approved the ideas - now trying to distance yourself from this because you have been exposed. Another nail in Labour's coffin. AS for "toffs" - I'll bet many a Labour MP these days is worth more than many a Tory MP. Some have money left to them as inherited wealth, others get their wealth from us tax payers.

Just as Jade Goody became Princess Di the conservatives seem to think that they can become an amalgamation of mother theresa, Gandhi and Jesus rolled into one. I wonder how stealing personal information fits with David Davis and his quest for an end to the "erosion of fundamental British freedoms" or is it more the ends justify the means. I was always brought up to believe that stealing is wrong but not in this case hey David Cameron and those other virtuous caring conservatives.
Personally this whole mess makes the tories look like thieves and further shows how far away from the rank and file of their party are the ones pulling the strings to make them look cute. If the British Electorate falls for Mr Nice and those lovely conservatives then they are bigger fools than those who believed in Bernard Madoff and his scams. The caring conservatives are like the emperors new clothes. They believe that there is something there but at the end of the day there is nothing and even a child can see that.

When did politics suddenly become like a Miss World contest, but then Cameron has said I would like to end world poverty without as much as an idea about how to do that. SO maybe this is the Tories main idea. Just stand there and look radiant. I do not want to see him in a bikini or speedos.
Politics is a dirty game. All this crap about honesty and morality. Did we all have selective amnesia in the 80s and early 90s. I forgot about how the Tories were such a lovely, kind and sweet party. That never did anything bad ever and help up those virtues of honesty and morality to such a high level.

Stalinist. Great. The Tories still think that it is the 80s. The world has moved on old chaps. Imagine if someone broke into your house and somehow stumbled across some photos of you dressed as a woman and decided to publish them on the internet. How would you feel? I guess it would be Labours fault for some reason.

An elitist government that introduced the minimum wage. Attempting to end poverty in Africa. Oh stop please. Do something for the poor people who the conservatives covet so much.

I love the fact that people have come online to complain about silly, childish made up comments and then how do they respond? Yes by making silly, childish comments. Genius. Is this the famous double standards of the lovely caring conservatives.

This really is awful stuff.

I write this not as some gloating Tory, I write this as a Labour supporter absolutely disillusioned at what party politics has been traduced to.

You really have become an awful bunch of self serving and self judging pigs.

I can forgive you your masturbatory expenses and second homes, your keen knife to civil liberties, your struggle with a credible answer to broad economic tides.

But not this, really, not this.

I struggle to know what is worse, the Zimbabwean map of politics you hold or this naked avoidance of culpability.

The line:

**the lesson is that we should leave tittle tattle and gossip to the right wing blogosphere**

. . . is actually embarrassing to read - realising that you might actually believe it.

Awful.




Ashamed Labour (only just) supporter.

i do not care which honourable member has screwed which honourable member - 'tis brown et al that have screwed the country

Why don't you say something that is constructive? Divisive crap is precisely that - crap.

My main focus is on promoting better policies and interaction. I hope the Labour Party can rise to that challenge and haven't seen any sign the Tories get a similar agenda. The more interesting articles on Labour List and non-stop Tory trolling suggest my approach is sound enough.

Just because moderators have been fooled into being hyper-sensitive about acuusations of "censorship" doesn't mean about 99% of your comments shouldn't be deleted.

You never agree or say anything nice about someone who doesn't run with the pro-Tory mob. It creates an impression and sucks regular people in, and ends up destroying forums like it's done all over the internet.

*sigh* Another troll comment from a known offender.

Never said people can't have different views, just the people who roll up to bash stuff and wind people up need nuking.

This is the result of current "Stalinist" manner of current government; with discrediting the opposition in such a low manner, and now the access and hence publication of these damaging emails. The fact such emails have been accessed, illustrates the lack of respect of privacy of individuals by this government, and this neglect has turned and bit it back in its backside hard...

There is no morality left in this government. It is elitist with its own self-belief its above the acceptable behaviour of respect. To bring it to a class war of Labour against "toffs" is puerile, and certainly not a joke Lex Budda...

Silly juvenile comments? Really?
Try malicious, petty, dishonest, revolting and you'd be closer to the mark.

New Labour doesn't do morality or honesty, that's patently obvious to anyone who's been obliged to live under their successive governments since 1997.

Still, the lies and the petty hatreds played out in parliament and the media will no doubt achieve a logical conclusion. Labour out of power for another generation - you never learn, do you?

Welcome to the fold. I am 69 and from a staunch working class background. My Dad was a Labour voter all his life as I was until 2001. I dread to think what he would make of these creeps who call themselves a Labour government were he still around. I left the Labour Party when Blair invaded Afghanistan. In retrospect I should have left when John Smith died and that amoral creature Blair took over - everything went downhill after that. Now I look back on the dying days of the Major government as a time of decency compared to what we have now - I never thought I would ever come to say that. Not that I want the Tories back but more than anything I want shot of this awful corrupt amoral government that has made me feel ashamed of my own country. Let us hope for a hung parliament at the next election. Maybe with the Lib Dems holding the balance of power the words conscience, morality, ethics and courage will come to mean something again in this country. I live in hope though it is a faint one I'm afraid.

"Toffs" of course is so up to the minute - P G Wodehouse and Billy Bunter are alive and well and living in NuLabour land!

PINKO i have not heard that one since the 1980s. Is this the return of the cold war. You must have the brain of a drug addled toff and you have had a cocaine flashback and thought it was the 80s.

I have left the country because it is full of idiots who think that the Daily Mail is the bible. Are two people not allowed to email each other jokes anymore. Am i not allowed to say anything slightly salacious about someone else. Personally what disgusts me is that a private email has obviously been stolen or hacked and then sold on. This to me says more about the morals of a certain section of society than someone saying Cameron is a ***********.

and saying how old are you 13 is like oh so mature. I am cut to pieces by the sharpness of your wit. What a suprise you mention Brand and Ross the other arch enemies of the world according to the Daily Mail. I guess you love jumping on those bandwagons.

"Shadow foreign secretary William Hague demanded an apology from the prime minister, plus an investigation.

He also called for an assurance that neither Damian McBride nor Derek Draper would work for the government or the Labour Party again."

I think the fact these emails were 'private' is an irrelevance now, don't think libel or slander is an issue simply a matter of damage limitation now to the satisfaction of those identified in the emails

Just imagine. It will be a headline writer's dream: "IT'S CURTAINS FOR DRAPER".

Wonderful. I have a new-found respect for George Galloway.

Oh, James!

I'm perfectly aware of how the electoral system works in this country. There's a relatively small number of people who (like you) hold blind allegiance to any specific party. The remainder of the electorate are what many refer to as floating voters. They vote based on past performance of a specific party, they base their decision on the election manifestos and the vision for a potential future under that party's leadership. The electoral success of any party isn't delivered by you, the party faithful. It's delivered by those like me, who don't hold allegiance to any specific party. We are the ones who's vote really counts. As painful as it may be for you to hear, we are the ones Gordon Brown needs to convince in order to hold on to power. There seems to be strongly held belief that anyone who makes an argument against New Labour, is automatically a Tory troll. In an earlier post you suggested that the majority of comments were from " conservatives masquerading as outraged members of the public". I would argue that those outraged members of the public are genuine, and unless you and your party start listening to us, the election will be lost. There are millions of voters who are angry. Millions that want answers. And all you do is dismiss their genuine concerns, and label them as undercover Tories.

You say "I just don't understand why people like you spend time on a Labour supporters website having pointless arguments..."

Let me explain. (please read slowly, so that it sinks in).
Unlike you. I don't blindly follow any political party. In order for me to make an informed decision at election time, I feel it's necessary to listen to all sides of the argument. This is why I spend time on a Labour supporters website. I'm not here to have pointless arguments. I'm here to hear the Labour side. If there is something I agree with, I'll say so. If there is something I don't agree with, again I'll say so. In truth, I have made negative comments on this site. The reason for these negative comments is that I disagree with the twaddle that's being peddled. I detest when some contributors make comments that are plainly false, comments that twist the truth, and comments that take us (the electorate) for fools.

If you want LabourList to be entirely populated by the party faithful, then it will have absolutely no impact on next year's election result. If LabourList want to make a contribution towards the election, they need to accept non-Labour members and convince them of the Labour cause. Painting opposing voices as Tory trolls will only drive those floating voters into the arms of the Conservative party. And if that happens, you'll only have yourselves to blame.

"I'm sorry Mike I can't give you a list of Labour positives because you will just say they are negatives and life's too short"

If you truly believed that "life's too short" you wouldn't bother wasting time posting on this site. But you continue to do so. You can't give a list because as far as I can see, there isn't a list to give. I'll concede that the introduction of a minimum wage was overdue and a positive for New Labour, but I can't think of even one other positive thing New Labour have done. As a floating voter, I need to be convinced to place my vote for a Labour candidate. If Labour wants that vote, they're going to need to give me a reason. I asked for positives, and you dismissed that request. I'm afraid that it's precisely that kind of attitude that is going to lose Labour the next election.

I believe this thread contains the largest number of comments ever on this website. It is unsurprising that no-one is interested in commenting on the patronising and tragically dull witterings of the, well travelled. frequently double-barelled offspring, of the governing elite; but the level of cool well expressed fury here marks this moment out. Especially compared to the pathetic student politics of the handful of goons who have tried to spin this disaster for the government. So we are all "toffs" snorting coke through £50 notes - where I wonder can they possibly have chosen that line of attack from?

Draper you have "sealed the deal": for Cameron - and this has been your moment; your last ever moment with anyone listening. You would be doing a genuine poltical service to the people if you brought those behind you down with you. How about it? Why not tell us the truth....it will be your only meaningful opportunity to do so.

Probably because like the rest of us he HAS taken drugs at some point. So what? The only person I can categorically say has never taken drugs is Gordon Brown. And he should. They would help him.

What date was that then, just so that it can be verified?

Class politics are for idiots. The working classes need a future not this divisive drivel.

In my view there is a new paradigm where we can unite and make sure that everyone has a chance, spitting this Precottish drivel ais just stupid.

.....or toffs like Blair? Do grow up boy - how old are you? About thirteen I guess. Personally I don't want to live in a country run by lying, cowardly control freaks, with the smutty minds of adolescent schoolboys (or Russell Brand and Jonathon Ross) and the ethical and moral values of an amoeba but I guess we have to want until next year before we can do anything about that.

"It was only a joke."

Would you have found it as funny if it had been the other way around? Of course you wouldn't. You'd be pointing your finger at them and saying, see, nasty Tory toffs, can't trust them.

"i for one do not want to live in a country run by toffs like Cameron and Johnson"

The way things are going, it looks like you'll have to either live in a country run by Cameron, or emigrate.

Just want to concur with your post. This lot are beneath contempt and have no concept of ethical or moral behaviour. This goes for Brown and his cronies as much as it did for Blair. If there was any true justice in this country anymore the lot of them would be banged up in jail.

Typical comment from a pinko with the brains of a moth with alzheimers.

So you are something big in the games industry then are you Mr H? You were 10 years ahead of Doom? Or is this more of your usual b*****x?

As for saying the same thing 1000 times as on other blogs, a quick research says the same about your good self. Same old b****x on every other site.

"Are we really going to judge people for having silly ideas, even if they then put them in emails to mates?"

Yes, we should judge people by their stupid, puerile machinations, even if they later realize how viciously they will backfire. To have given serious contemplation, even for a moment, to an absurd plan to smear political opponents, shows your absolute lack of judgment and how ill-qualified you are to comment on how this country is governed. It is not worthy of somebody who wants the Labour Party to succeed, never mind anyone who cares about what is best for Britain. If you put the interests of either ahead of your own, you too would disappear like your rancid friend McBride. Everyone - Labour, Tories, the general public - would be better off without you and your rotten kind.

And you feel they should respond to allegations from the likes of McBride and Draper?

In that case I think I'll make allegations about Gordon and take it that if he doesn't deny them then they must be true.

For example having read various responses on here, I believe Brown has been accused of being an arrogant, posturing bully who is bereft of ideas and couldn't run a bath and have yet heard no denials. So they must be true.

Yeah, he's really taking it to them! Ha ha

The emails WERE published. They were sent to a another person and he read them. That is all that is required for a libel action. If you are that bothered about the veracity of the allegations why not ask Mr Draper to publish the emails in full? He better hurry though, if he's going to, because I fear his days here are numbered, having been totally and repeatedly disowned by all his erstwhile chums. Nice lot, aren't they Mr Draper?

That will be typical Hardluck Hardwidge. He can always be found dismissing any other view apart from his own and believes that anyone on here posting anything anti Labour (or anti Hardwick) should be moderated or is insane.

Yes Charley Boy, your description I believe of someone who dared disagree. Have often wondered if you are actually Derek's alter ego...or just a complete ego!

As for your troll comments...yawn...you're getting boring. Either you've run out of ideas (mmm maybe you're Gordon Brown) or you need to seek professional advice from Derek ;-)

Good on you lads. Obviously the tories can not take a joke. A bit like Britain in general. It was only a joke. Even the news of the world who published a story not disimilar to one of the claims in the emails about Osbourne got on its high horse about saying naughty things to those caring conservatives. Personally we should attack the Toffs, i for one do not want to live in a country run by toffs like Cameron and Johnson.

and its so frigging annoying that the ONLY reason he resigned is BECAUSE HE GOT CAUGHT

Derek, I particularly like this email from you where you suggest lying to your readers, showing your contempt for them:

-----Original Message-----
From: Derek Draper [mailto:derekdraper@............]
Sent: 13 January 2009 18:56
To: Damian McBride
Cc: Dodgshon, Andrew; Whelan, Charlie
Subject: Re: Rag [UNCLASSIFIED] [Non-Record]

These are absolutely totally brilliant Damian.

I'll think about timing and sort out the technology with Andrew this week so we can go asap.

Do we want to tip off anyone about Red Rag having set up? Walters? I could do it and say LabouLlist had been sent the link anonymously.

PS Don't forget LabourList Damian!

Take a look Charles, turn on "show trash comments" and you will see what I say is not a claim, it is a fact.

I am not an offender because my posts aren't moderated. Yours are.

Get a grip.

Sorry Paul, but while this explanation might have a good deal going for it, it still doesn't fit the facts. Even after we knew what was in the emails, (they were 'absolutely brilliant' at first), and after they had been roundly trashed by every remaining Labour grandee with any instinct for self-preservation, Derek was still informing us that some of them were 'brilliant and rather funny'. I'm afraid there's nothing for it but for Derek himself to come along and tell us which ones.

And as a matter of interest, why have none of the journalists who have interviewed him raised this quite eye-wateringly obvious point?

Where is Blair when you need him?

We need you Tony, come back!

A few weeks ago Derek Draper wrote in the London Evening Standard about the supposed nastiness of right wing bloggers. The phrase was something like "Imagine being locked in a room with the dozen most vitriolic people in the world."

Is this your way of demonstrating how much more principled, less personal and generally nicer left wingers are?

This is a message for Charles Hardwidge. There is one single issue that I am concerned about, the future of the working classes. You are very vocal, however your vocality is based upon a rabid fact-less rants about the New Labour experiment.

I fear you lost your objectivity and will not tolerate a view that it different to yours. In every regard the Blair Brown experiment is a failure

* Iraq
* The economy
* The police state
* Immigration and the importation of terror

Here is the rub, the rich WILL get through this and they can afford to pay. The working classes will suffer. You are a sw developer, good for you. Try living on a 15k p/a. Supporting this shower just makes it worse for those at the bottom of the food chain.

Try focussing your energies on the “what next”, because that’s where we are. What kind of society and values do we want, what kind of leaders do we want. Who at Labour towers has the vision and is clean enough to drive this vision. Will you please accept that the country has turned its back on Brown? This affair underlines how bad it is.

In 1997 Blair and Brown saw the city as the driver of wealth, unfortunately that chicken has salmonella. Brown does not have the answers; he was inept from the start sidling up to the bankers. No party has outlined where the growth is going to come from and this is the challenge. What are we going to do to drive the economy and jobs?

If you are going to respond please come back to me, but don’t call me a Tory or names. Try taking a more balanced view and please tell me how Brown has helped the working classes. Tax credits....pah!

As for the Labour Lion, what have Hoon, Smith, McNulty et al done for the Lions image?

How could you and Mr McBride plot to try to ruin another mans life in such a callous way. May god forgive you. Please leave us and the Labour party in peace - go bother someone else with your vicious attacks and manipulation on others whoever they may be.

No. What happened was you got stories that you had not run YET. By your own admission you were considering timing and it was designed to "destabalise" the opposition. No point in doing that until the election date was decided!

Let us review the best parts of Guido's "tittle tattle":

1) Claims John Prescott was shagging his secretary
1a) John Prescott WAS shagging his secretary

2) Claims Hain falsified donations to do Labour party out of cut
2a) Hain DID falsify donation returns to ommit some

3) Made claims about the Brown and Blair wars in Downing Street
3a) Prescott autobiography VERIFIES wars and battles at the heart of government.

And that is just the ones that I can remember without recourse to Google.

The reason you got attacked was because you tried to smear those blogs as racist when they were nothing of the sort. Anyone looking back through this site will see how pathetic your attempt was. You tried to play with the big boys and you have been smacked about. And rightly so. Your actions here are the kind of thing that one would expect of a scumbag. Think about this: If you and McBride were just two blokes in a bar making this crap up about a third bloke's wife and he was in the bar as well do you think this would have not ended in an all our fight in the car park?

The simple fact is that the man at the heart of the Labour spin operation has been caught conspiring with an arms length operator paying his dues to get back into the thick of things. The fact is these stories had not been published YET because now was not the time to get the maximum impact on them. The idea that you are somehow innocent because they had not yet been published seems to suggest that you consider conspiracy not to be a crime. Maybe you could advise all those in prison for conspiricy to rob or murder? Explain to them why you think they are clearly innocent.

I hope you learned a lesson here in getting out of your depth. You are in our back yard and you are learning the hard way that your operations dont work here!

Mr Draper. We, the taxpayer pay your wages and those of Mr Mcbride. Funnily enough many of us really do care that at the heart of Government - a Government that we had all hoped back in the nineties would prove to be honourable, trustworthy and genuinely in power to do good, to be responsible and to look after ordinary people. You sir, along with Mr Mcbride, have demonstrated that, once again, this is not the case. The pair of you have no morals, no honour and nothing left to hide behind. You are symbolic of all that is wrong with the Labour Party in 2009 and as such, have demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt why you will lose the next election. You have nothing left to offer anybody except to cling to power for your own interests. Your continued employment at our expense is an abominationthat should be rectified forthwith. The longer you and your ilk continue to believe the electorate are morons to be manipulated and lied to the greater the damage done to Democracy. You are both an utter disgrace and an embarrassment to the party, the country, the electorate and yourselves. Please go.

i found it interesting that you (derek) whinge about your emails being "hacked" so what exactly is your take on the fact that your colleagues in new "labour" want to spy on all emails of us ordinary folk?
ps stopped my membership in 2001 when it became obvious that t. bliar and his new labour were a big con

There's an old saying: "When you're in a hole, stop digging". You should have borne it in mind before you had your panic attack. And you are having a panic attack right now, aren't you? Because having disowned the blushing McBride (did he resign or was he sacked) it looks like you're next in line for the bullet. That is, if you can believe anything Liam Byrne had to say on the subject. Which will be poetic justice, as far as I'm concerned. The lesson for this Easter Sunday is "As ye sow, so shall you reap". And not before time.

You can hear Draper being mauled by George Galloway and Adam Bolton here:

http://www.spiderednews.com/GeorgeGalloway.htm?vid=1538162

Dolly just keeps on digging, gotta admire his optimism.

exactly, new labour is all about lies and hypocrisy, then covering up with more lies.
new labour should have been called the new tories what with their love affair with capitalism and their dedication to lining their own bank accounts.
but to stoop so low as this to gain a few extra votes shows how desperate brown and his cronies are getting as an election approaches

Some bright spark invented the wheel too, North Korea use them I understand.

Perhaps now the Great British public will realise that these people have no shame or regard for us WHATSOEVER.
They are determined to continue to destroy this country and to join the European gravy train and will continue to live the highlife by stealing our taxes.
They are pushing their hidden agenda's on us, GM foods, water fluoridation for example.
We are not stupid
The time has come for us all to stand up and be counted!

One final comment. I'd have no problem with my emails finding their way into the public domain as I do not write lies and spread malicious gossip in them! Having said that, I'd be annoyed that my privacy had been invaded, however thanks to this Government we no longer have that freedom!

What are the chances of Osborne going on record to deny drug taking???


zzzeeeeeerrrooooo.

Why would that be then?

Charles, why do you assume that those who post on Fawkes blog are Tories?. I dislike the way the country is being run in many respects and post about it; that does not make me a Tory, and I suspect that I am not alone.

As the Government wants to be able to read everyones emails, does this mean they re-think this further attack on Civil Liberties? As for these emails, which can only be described as malicious, how can you possibly defend them! They are NOT jokey, they are plain downright nasty! Worse still, they were written whilst we, the taxpayers, were paying for McBride's time. How low can you go.
Niccos Ellio. Even if Cameron and Osbourne had dabbled in a little recreational drug use during their days as students, SO WHAT? Who hasn't done daft things at Uni,? Part of growing up. People in glass houses? If that's the best response you can come up with, I pity you.

Derek, you should now apologise for your involvement in this - it is juvenile politics which brings shame on our Party and the thousands of decent members who believe in Labour values.
It may also help if you take some time to reflect on the type of politics which attempts to smear the wife of a Tory, with insinuations about her mental health.
It is utterly disgraceful and nasty.
It increases the corrosive cynicism which the public now have about politics and public life.
And it is fundamentally misplaced - we can't win with these tactics. Nor should we.
As for McBride, he should be kicked out of the Party immediately - that would send a very clear message and may hasten the day when we can put forward a new politics to the British people and restore some faith in the integrity of decent people trying to make life better for millions.

Looks like you bin rumbled as a lying scumbag Draper

That's true. I have it on very good authority that the Tories are planning to smear our beloved leader with terrible stories that aren't true. Things like; the rape of the pension funds, the bungling of Financial Regulation and the disastrous stewardship of the economy while he was chancellor.

Terrible, wicked, lies... Bloody tories, you can't trust them to fight fair.

Because, after describing a plan to smear a woman as possibly having mental health problems as 'brilliant', and, at best, now dismissing it as 'juvenile', Mr. Draper probably has no future in psychotherapy either.

Sorry but you and your 'Downing Street Friend' are nothing but scumbags in my opinion. I write as an ex-Labour Party member who left the party when Blair invaded Afghanistan. Everything that has happened since then has confirmed my opinion of NuLabour. A party composed mainly of liars, cowards and amoral time-servers supporting a government that has made me ashamed to be British. That you even momentarily contemplated using this juvenile rubbish to smear the Tories puts you beyond the pale as a decent human being as far as I am concerned. And do get off your high horse about your emails being hacked into you ineffably silly man. Anyone with an ounce of sense knows that emails are notoriously insecure and if you don't want information to get into the public domain don't put it in an email. But then you and your 'mate' are such arrogant creatures with nothing but contempt for the rest of us - just like your government - that you probably thought you were immune from the natural laws that govern us mere mortals.

We're in the worst recession since the Great Depression, thousands are losing their jobs and homes and businesses. Rich Bankers are getting bailed out and keeping their bonuses, those protesting against them are beaten by the police, and our Government is resorting to Stalinist smear tactics. Forget about calls for Draper to go. Brown should go, and lets call an election, even though we'd probably lose, at least we'd retain some of our dignity, and maybe be in a better place in 4 years time. I've been a Labour member since I was 16 in 1992. I HAVE NO CONFIDENCE IN THIS GOVERNMENT.

There's a difference between adding value and being sociable, and just rolling up to argue and upset people. Most mature people can take a rounded view and cut slack but there's too many people who always make comment to start arguments and wind people up. It's an issue of discussion versus trolling. Nuking the trolling isn't censorship. It's creating a space for discussion.

Don't you think that if you're going to be an unprincipled, manipulative liar you should at least try to be good at it?

Every time somebody wonders aloud "How much lower can Labour sink?" you, Mr Draper, are always there to prove that the answer is "lower, lower still".

You are an utter disgrace.

Charles - I have never questioned the mental health of Gordon Brown. I think you will find that two wrongs do not make a right.
Please go and find your moral compass that you seem to have lost along with your soon-to-be-finished political party

To true. The Tories invented smear politics

"I wasn't lying on purpose."

—Derek Draper on Channel 4 News

Apparently they were brilliant and rather funny emails until 'respected' psychotherapist Derek Draper MA, realised that we knew what he thought was brilliant and rather funny. At that point they 'were silly juvenile ideas but that is all they were'.

Hope that helps Mark...

Care to spin anymore lies 'respected' psychotherapist Derek Draper MA?

Clearly Cameron and Osbourne will want to, once and for all put to bed the ongoing inuendo about them having a drug taking past.

If neither of them have ever had a rolled up £50 note up their snout then no better time to categorically deny it.

Come on Dave and George lets hear those denials

Cue deafening silence from Dave and Georgie.

Emails sent from Number 10 are not in essence private, being subject to FOI requests. Regardless, that McFilth mailed them from there automatically flagged them as in the public interest to be revealed, as the taxpayer funded his office and his PC.

Draper's "defence" that Guido is the problem, having got the published, tells me all I need to know about the man. And Labour.

I didn't know this site existed before today, however I see it has a handy link to "see the PM live in Parliament" so I may just bookmark it, to use in the future when we get a PM worthy of attention, thanks for that. BTW, who are you and this McBride bloke?

Hardwidge - you're a laugh, aren't you? Anyway, let me tell you that the Lion is a proud and noble beast. Any attempt therefore to associate the Lion with the Labour Party is deemed to be defamatory. Something you might find under a stone, is how I would describe the Labour Party, or a bottom feeder in a filthy harbour.

I guess you haven't found the local pharmacies open over the long Easter break.

Please keep this site open - I havent had so much fun in years!

Remember he also lied about the existence of these emails as well. On TV.

Would you go to this guy for therapy?

To be fair to DD [exits stage left, pursued by a howl of derision] rarely a day goes by on Guidos blog without someone posting as a male dancer suggesting DD is a cuckold, but it is fairly obvious that these are just fifth rate insults rather than a realistic attempt to inform. Tell us Derek, has that stream of abuse clouded your judgement?

brilliant could not put it beter myself

Pray tell me at what stage a discussion becomes a plan. There is a serious point here. A few drink fuelled comments over a pint too many obviously could be dismissed as beer talk, but I never managed to register a web site by discussing it.

Celia, asking an idiot if he is stupid or looks stupid will not yield reliable results.

Come on Derek.

You still haven't enlightened us as to which of the emails were brilliant and rather funny.

You are going to tell us, aren't you?

Can't say I've noticed much truth in your claim, and a lot of stuff that's treated on ordinary on here is just posturing and bickering. You're one of the biggest offenders but don't let an inconvenient truth get in the way of the ego.

Maybe I've just been spoiled by better content and moderation but Labour List could do better. If some of my 20 years expertise gained by knocking around can help that, we're peachy. I'd do things differently but I'm not going to press it too hard.

The Tories main position is for Labour to "get a grip" and they don't seem to be able to stay away. That's a curious thing. If Labour step up a gear and get out more it would address that challenge. It's like they want to be beaten.

It is increasingly apparent, even for those who may be inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt, that you are a pathological liar.

You are right Alan. Vote independents - Vote Jury Team

You really are hard work are'nt you. Let me explain to you how the electoral system in this country works. There
are a number of political parties that put policies forward on what they expect to do for you in government. You pick the
party that most closely matches your outlook on life. For me that is Labour. Unfortunately as there are around 60
million of us in the UK so we can't each have a government that exactly matches out own standpoint on every issue.
Ergo, if you want to be part of the political process you may sometimes vote for a party that does something you
may not agree with, though on balance you still support most of what it does. I'm sorry Mike I can't give you a
list of Labour positives because you will just say they are negatives and life's too short. I just don't understand
why people like you spend time on a Labour supporters website having pointless arguments, it's just so negative.
Goodbye.

I trawled deep, deep into this blog page to find just one message in support of this lying fool. This is what I find. Something with far less integrity and intelligence than the oxygen thief it is defending. Pathetic.

Pigeons, lions, hyenas and poultry droppings, (sanitised), are the best analogies you can come up with? Education x 3 worked out well for you eh?

If this is representative of Labour's grass roots then I seriously pity the genuine amongst you all.

.... inarticulate pillock, surely.

Best be quick with any more comments - I'm not sure that this site is going to be around a whole lot longer...

Only a NuLab drone with the full humour bypass could miss the point so spectacularly as Laura McNeil. Guido's contributors specialise in wind-ups, bad language, sexual innuendo and wildly exaggerated opinion. Most of this comes under the heading of vulgar abuse, and is not even legally actionable.

If someone comes up with a theory that a lady MP is having an improper relationship with her Cairn Terrier, no-one takes it seriously. She just looks as if she might.

People like Draper and McBride are in an entirely different position. They have a duty to act responsibly. Even to consider inventing smears about MPs and their wives, let alone emailing to congratulate eachother on their spiffing wheeze, is bad enough. But it seems to have gone a stage further with Draper, apparently seriously, talking about mechanisms for releasing the fake scandals and McBride urging him to "keep up the momentum".

This was not the knockabout stuff of Guido Fawkes. This is serious - and not even funny.

Hypocrites the lot of you. Had the stories been published you'd have loved the gossip. McBride took it too far but Draper is about the only one taking it to the Tories and giving them some of their own treatment.

Derek, all this story has done is consolidate in people's minds how tired and corrupt this government is. That someone being paid by the public purse should be wasting time on smearing opposition politicians would seem outrageous were it not just a small part of the constant drip drip. I and millions of other taxpayers do not want to pay for your tawdry party political ends, thank you very much. The sad fact is that no matter how loudly we put forward this simple and reasonable message it will never quite get through - until Labour is booted out of office.

Many Labour people have so convinced themselves that the end of beating the Tories justifies the means that they have lost their moral bearings. Ordinary people want the political class to uphold a society with civilised norms. Not much chance of that if they see spreading unfounded malicious gossip as simply par for the course in political life - and not actually wrong, but just "a silly idea".

You're in the wrong - just admit it. The comment about how you were motivated by combatting racism is particularly self-serving and self-deluding.

Happy Easter, remote access coming in handy?

Oh dear, New Labour are getting thoroughly trashed on the paper reviews today.

This is exactly the same old spinning machine that gave us the dodgy dossier, the lies, the wars, the burying of bad news as thousands are killed, the reasons why I dropped my membership.

Gordon is just the same as Tony. They have both been fundamental to New Labour and its discredited approach to politics.

I will not bother to vote again until we get rid of these people and back to traditional Labour.

"Because tomorrow is Easter Sunday..."

Strange behaviour for a self-confessed atheist.

"moderate their asses to Hades"

An inconvenient truth Charles - YOU are the most moderated contributor to LabourList with more "trash" comments than ANYBODY.

Don't you realise how stupid you look?

Derek,

Why are you not coming in here to reply to the comments. Surely that is what a blog is all about.

You are finding lots of time to do the rounds of TV and Radio. Even Fawkes is keeping his blog up to date. What's happening here. Is this really the best use of good union members' money.

"press ganging people" ?????
Better stay away from those riverside inns.....

So at the time of writing we have 180 comments, dismiss 99% as they are all bollox and we are left with the comments from Charles who recommends stricter moderation. However its not stricter moderation is it, its censoring what Labour don't want to hear, how wonderful and open.

Having seen some of this stuff today, I should say that it is smutty rather than "obscene" as I believe the Telegraph has described it. It is no doubt tasteless vulgar and abusive, and it is dispicable that a civil servant should spend his work time (even if it was "only an hour" as Derek had it on PM last night)compiling such puerile trash.

That said it is also extremely naive. One of the reasons that the Tories haven't made too much of the greed of McNulty and Smith, for example, is, I imagine, because they know that many of their own party are up to the same. tawdry, shabby tricks. Likewise, you making slurs against the Tories will backfire, because it will remind people of Ex vicar Chris Bryant posing in his underpants for a gay contact website and Ron Davies cottaging (remember Lance Price's book?) - not to mention those bachelor MPs who suddenly get married when they think there might be the chance of becoming leader and the spouses of senior politicians watching gay pornography. We also had lay-preacher Blunkett and his cavortings with women and his publically conducted paternity claims, which he cashed in on by publishing his diaries.

The truth is no politician of any party is whiter than white, and many have a lot to hide. It is irresponsibility of the grossest kind to encourage this sort of mud slinging because your opponents will feel justified in starting a similar campaign - and the public have more to worry about in the recession that these schoolboy tricks.

I've been lazily noting the troll comments over the past few weeks. That must be about the 10th time I've seen that one.

Derek

Simple question, if you were not going to use the contents of the emails, why keep them?

You mean they didn't disown you when you told them you worked for LabourPist?

And BTW, you posted it at 1.15 am on Easter Sunday, rather than 'spending it with my family

The celebration continues... Bollie and orange with my scrambled eggs, I think.

"It's the same old people saying the same old things they've said a 1000 times"

Funny that I knew who posted this comment before I read the name...

So Derek, TWO lies so far

1. That the emails did not exist.

2. That they are private.

I gather Liam Byrne has just said on Sky that you have no place whatsoever in the Labour organisation.


Cheers!

By the way - send me your address, and I'll send you some razor blades. You look like a tramp.

And the "You knows" ... you make David Beckham look smart. At lease he's not a lying arsehole, though, bless him, and I say that as a Man City fan.

Oh one last thing - you give Lancastrians a bad name.

Derek, fear not, I've slept on it and I've got an absolutely totally brilliant plan:

You're touring the studios saying whether people really want a politics where people's e-mail accounts are hacked - simply release any of the e-mails you will have sent people, or articles you will have published, in September last year when Sarah Palin's account was hacked, as this is clearly something you feel very strongly.......er...you DID say that at the time, didn't you?

Never mind, let's try another one:

You say after reviewing Damian's e-mails you decided not to go ahead with Red Rag - simply release the e-mails where you cancelled everything and you're in the clear! (Sort of!) You know, the ones where you reply to Damian and say "Sorry mate, had a think about it, it's a bad idea", or to the ISP cancelling the domain registration......er...you DID do that, didn't you?

Oh bugger. Sorry mate, you're on your own.

Please re-read your communication above, I can not believe, although I probably should, how you are trying to angle this story, do you think the nation is full or morons? I have one 3 things to say to you Draper:
- Anton Du Beke
- Karma
- RESIGN

I sit here in the West Bromwich increasingly frustrated by the infantile behaviour of these politicos in Westmimster who spend their time on cobblers like this, thus helping ensure that Cameron and his Tory boys will be the next government.

The party is ill served by these pygmies. I think your time is up Derek, time for you and all of these perpetual students.careerists and egotists to go. Leave the politics to the grown ups.

I am just thinking. Is Draper's current behaviour of being involved with a scheme to 'possibly' out a person with a 'possible' mental condition not against the code of conduct of the British Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy. Surely it must be!

This is a defining moment in British politics, and you were instrumental in it, Derek. With your whingeing and dissembling and posturing you have helped to create Labour's own "Pentagon Papers" moment. It's the end of the road, mate. You're all doomed, and you're the one who opened the door to all this. I feel sorry for you now, because this is going to haunt you for the rest of your life. Get out of politics, stay away from the media, because, mate- you don't know what you're doing.

It is allowed within the rules to discuss but not to plan. See, It's all within the rules.

Charles,

I've watched your advice for over a week now. I think you need to see Mr. Draper on a professional basis. But then, maybe his qualification is something else from the games industry. The granting authority has already been an online game.

This Labour administration is insitiutionally incompetent and corrupt; this lastest episode in news "generations" shows how low it has sunk. However, don't tar Thatcher with the same brush; she had many faults but she was not corrupt or a coward.

Not planned? They were discussing the running order and timing, had bought and set up the web site and registered it in a false name, "Ollie Cromwell" . Your response is disgraceful. You really need to think about what has been done and why you support this Government and this site. Politics is one thing....but there is still an underpinning morality. Brown and this shower have dragged Labour into the gutter.

All part and parcel of this disgusting and utterly discredited Labour administration.

It has always governed as if it is in opposition, it has smeared countless people, that poor lady who suffered burns in the Paddington rail crash springs to mind, as does the abused child in an Islington care home; a one man hounded to his death - Dr. David Kelly.

I wish I could say I am surprised by this latest series of smears; I am not.

I feel sorry for your supporters who are by and large good and decent people (if politically misguided), I imagine they will feel betrayed that all their hard work and free time given for nothing is then debased by poisonous individuals who would rather play the politician than debate the policy.

To demonstrate a complete lack of any decency, resignation letters are not apologetic but 'je ne regrette rien'.

New Labour is on its deathbed, wheezing and each breath sounding more and more like its final death rattle.

No flowers and Good riddance.

Planet Tory probably - they're the only people who need Mr. Draper

Registering the redrag domain name and setting up a blog there seems to involves some planning. How do we know that the Downing Street emails were not about to be actioned, perhaps closer to the election?

This behaviour is not unusual in the rarified bubble of the labour party. I was a party and trade union member for 20 years, and worked in local government. I saw countless examples of energy being concentrated into destroying 'enemies' instead of working to achieve policies. 'Enemies' were more often people in the party or union, and these attacks were the most vicious and sickening. That's why I left the party that had been the natural political home for me and generations of my family.

And regarding emails - only an idiot would say that, Derek

Heard you on Sky Sport, you know, you know, you know, you know,you know, you know, you know, you know,you know, you know, you know, you know,you know, you know, you know, you know,you know, you know, you know, you know,you know, you know, you know, you know, pillock.

I am not partisan, I find them all equally distasteful.

Frankly I am surprised this isnt happening anyway - it is not like this party to allow such criticism to appear so openly. On the other hand there would be little ppoint in this website if only non critical comments were allowed - how many would there be and how many contributors?

We now know all about the emails and that the substance of the above is untrue. This is so typical of New Labour - to deny any wrong doing even in the face of overwhelming evidence. So we should not be surprised when Mr Draper continues the tradition. Black is white and white is black!

Many of his more senior colleagues have done the same - although in more recent examples they have been able to claim they didnt break the rules (which they made themselves).

Mr Wright I understand that you might well be cynical reading political blogs - who wouldn't be? - but when you write: "I find it incredible that most of the comments on Labour List are without doubt left by conservatives masquerading as outraged members of the public and even the old, "I've voted Labour since I was in short trousers but never again... "

Can I assure you that I post under my real name and that I genuinely HAVE voted Labour all my life since the first election I was able so to do, on June 18th 1970 when Harold Wilson was PM.

You have to undesrtand that the Labour party I joined and supported was nothing like that of the Blair/Brown years. Harold, Jim Callaghan nor I believe Neil Kinnock or John Smith would ever had instituted Tory policy, or continued it, as TB/GB did - indeed to take a couple of examples prior to 1997 Blair promised to renationalise the railways after the disastar that was privatisation and Railtrack in 1995. Of course he didn't. Even Mrs thatcher wasn't draconian enough to make the sick and disabled look for work (which at the moment isn't there) as Purnell has, on the advice of welfare "expert" the investment banker David Freud - who promptly went off to join the Conservatives.

I am 100% certain as Home Secretary Roy Jenkins wouldn't have allowed the erosion of our privacy as Blunkett, Reid and Smith has.

I don't think you, Mr Wright, or the NuLabour shower realise the depth of the anger and disgust that traditional real Labour voters feel towards this quasi-Tory outfit that, to my shame, I have helped into power for the past 12 years. I should have known better as early as the 2001 election, but, truly, NEVER AGAIN.

Not planned?

Drapers says "But I felt strongly that such gossip wasn´t suitable for LabourList and kicked around the idea of setting up another blog, Red Rag, where such stories might be published."

Sounds like a plan to me. But they didn't just kick around the idea of setting up another blog. They actually gave it a name, registered the domain name, and put up a placeholder page. Everything was ready to start the smear campaign. I can't see how you can interpret those actions as anything but a plan.

Derek, please tell us which were the ones that were "brilliant and rather funny". Or are they going to be in the next batch to be released?

I am just really disappointed and sad. What kind of people are you? I am 40 and have voted labour all my life. For what? An illegal war. A former pm who has to have 7 properties to feel secure. And a truly nasty set of shadowy figures. From condemning Dr Kelly as a fantasist to this. Mr and Mrs Cameron have just lost a child. And now this? You may not have been in control of the timing - but you engineered these emails, and I cannot vote for labour again. I have put up with the Iraq debacle, the cash for honours, fourty days, so many things. But I cannot stand by and see innocent women beintg trashed as a ""joke" by you and your friends. I may have paid for Ms Smiths 88pence bathplug. Now, I just want you all to flush down it. And I speak in far more sorrow than in anger.

Hi there Derek,

Firstly, I feel that it is only right that I declare both to you, and the other posters on this forum, that I am an evil ‘Tory’.

Regardless, to my eternal shame, I voted for Labour in 1997. But I was young and stupid back then.

Moreover, I think it only fair and sensible to declare my view that Margaret Thatcher was easily the most important and most wonderful PM in living memory.

My background is as follows: I inherited a large estate, and I greatly enjoy shooting pheasants and foxes.
The previous paragraph is a lie. But it does suit the bigoted views of people such as Mr. Draper, and I have to say, many Labour voters. This, I feel, is a real shame.

I was born to a single mother, aged sixteen, on a Greater Manchester council estate in the mid seventies. I shared our three bedroom council house with my mother, my Granddad, my Grandma, my Great Nanna (the mother of my Grandma), two aunties and one cousin.

That is eight people all sharing one council house. And we had no heating other than the fireplace in the living room.

But I am an evil Tory, and therefore my opinions can be ignored.

And just so there can be no confusion, I love Margaret Thatcher.

So, let us assume that I am evil, but here is your contribution:

“Absolutely totally brilliant Damian,” fired back Draper 20 minutes after receiving McBride’s message in January. “I’ll think about timing and sort out the technology this week so we can go as soon as possible.”
If I were to suggest that you are a liar and a scumbag, I doubt very much that any court in the UK would find in your favour.

You are finished.

Even docile Labour voters think you are scum.

Kind regards,

SoT

It's always best to do your best to be polite in life, so as someone who is Conservative inclined but could just about tolerate Blair (not the current plank though) I just thought I should thank you for your latest efforts.

Please keep it up...I don't just want a Cameron majority...I want it to be a big one!

Why do people think email is 'secure' and even 'private'. This is what is called 'ignorance'. When I send an email to you it will pass through maybe 10 different servers. Laws that this and other governments have passed means that a copy of the email will be retained on each of these servers. It's a pretty easy job - and incidentally NOT illegal - to 'harvest' these stored copies of your 'private' email.

If you people want to use the Internet to push your 1940s political ideas then you should get yourself an education and learn how the modern Internet works. It doesn't belong to you and is an instrument of and for the idea of freedom and has nothing to do with your sordid political ideology. You should stick to leaflets, megaphones and monkeys with red rosettes where you belong.

I've just read the NoW website and am surprised at how tame the coverage is - there is no 'verbatim' quotation from the emails per se, bar a graphic, the content of which is minimal.

Which part or parts are 'brilliant and rather funny'? The juvenilia are obvious.....

This is BS; you do not help.

Mr Draper,

When my wife heard you on TV today she asked me if you were a crooked second hand car salesman. We all despise crooks, especially crooked salesmen selling cars to the public.

I told my wife that you may look like a crook and sound like a crook but that doesn't make you a crook.

I went on to say that you are however a tawdry, tasteless , vulgar, loud, garish, trashy and vulgar piece of junk. My wife then said , " Oh that's OK then"

Now we've all had a bit of a look at them, which were the "brilliant and funny" ones?

Typical New Labour. It wasn't planned, it was discussed. We don't break the rules, only the spirit of the rules. Listen to yourselves. Glad I'm not a Labour activist, you couldn't pay me to peddle your lies and take the abuse you're all owed.

People see what they want to see in others. People present to the world what they want other people to see. Personally, I find Derek a hoot because he's so transparent it's funny, unlike the pigeon chested stiff necks who criticise him.

I'm pretty glad that Derek didn't go down the "Red Flag" route. I suspect, that was because he was aiming for a better standard than Tory party chickenshits. The Labour lion isn't afraid of the Tory hyena.

Because tomorrow is Easter Sunday, and I will be spending it with my family.

I am not here to write things at your demand.

I know it is late Tom, but how outrageous does someone's behaviour have to be before you criticise them? If this had been a Tory plot, you would have written some outraged post. In fact, why don't you do that in the morning?

Last time I checked there's plenty of whiners online who are quite happy questioning the mental health of everyone from the Prime Minister to anyone else who doesn't drink the Tory Kool-Aid. What about a nutter like Hannan or the babyish thrill seekers who roll up just to bash people? Labour aren't perfect but the Tories are neck deep in the filth and cross the line every day.

I'm the very last person to excuse a bad game or asshole developers but the way some of you people scream like little kiddies because you don't get exactly the right shade of policy or free ticket to Disney is like brats on a game forum. You're jumped up moaning git who'd be a nobody without a keyboard and an internet connection. What have you ever achieved in politics and how many people have your blog on speed dial?

The Tories don't have a product but I don't go around pushing myself in their face or pestering them on their blogs. If they had anything worth buying I'd be at the front of the queue but they have nothing and their customer attitude sucks. When they're not making false claims they're press ganging people. So how about you go fix that first instead of lecturing and hectoring people? Come back when you're done.

"The unfounded smears suggested:
“Putting the fear of God” into Osborne by spreading rumours that he took drugs and had sex with a prostitute.
Spreading rumours about the mental health of Osborne’s wife.
Challenging Cameron to reveal details of an “embarrassing illness”.
Accusing a gay Tory MP of promoting his partner’s business interests in the Commons.

Your lies are astounding Derek. Astounding.

I don't believe you have the front to try and play this down.

>>"Any good gossip doing the rounds?"
here's some - you're as corrupt as Thatcher - in her heyday.

>>Imagine if all your emails suddenly became available to people wanting to damage you.<<
That wouldn't harm most people, only corrupt politicians.

Please stop behaving like a four year old and do some positive work for the community. Suggest you stop blogging for a few months, give yourself a break. You've lost the plot.

"Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive."

Derek, I will know you are not lying any more when you stop breathing and go cold. But you are wasting your time; no one believes a word you say.

...just moderate their asses to Hades.
Okay! So everything is open then?

Did I say it was?

It's a slight suprise that 99% of the comment in here is people rolling up just to talk bollocks but nothing new. It's the same old people saying the same old things they've said a 1000 times on other blogs. Seriously, dude. You need to start pimping your content better and just moderate their asses to Hades. If you were in the games industry you wouldn't last a week.

They were planned? They were discussed? That's alright then

But they weren't planned, were they?

They were discussed. But not planned.

What?

Frankly I'm disappointed with your explanation. I was hoping to learn that you had brilliantly set up Staines by "leaking" him an e-mail full of scurrilous stories which he would foolishly publish leaving him liable for any resulting defamation proceedings. I'm still hoping that's the real story.

I wasn't going to comment until I read that some of the smears planned between Dolly and McBride concerned the mental health of George Osborne's wife. How low can you go Derek?
Would you like it if people spread such rumous about your relationship with Ms Garroway? You are gutter slime and not fit to be in any political party. Labour if it has any moral compass should expel you.
You have quite simply lost the plot and see politics as a form of tribal warfare. The next election is well and truly lost. How many voters will you pursuade to back Labour with such tactics? NONE

I leave a comment and nothing appears - I though this was a blog with free comment. My charitable view is that it might be overloaded with venom. As a Northener I speak as I see - I see nothing here... to give confidence

I for one am glad that blogs such as this do exist. Even though the battles in this media get somewhat bloody and perhaps we find boundaries by having crossed them. We learn by this and carry on.
We must not use occassions such as this to point fingers whilst disguising our partisanship.
Any who threaten to change or surrender allegiance to values which can be legitamatly expressed by voting labour should question their stance to begin with. Loyalty is not blind adherence to a flag but we are entitled to suspect the motivations of those who lack perhaps what may be percieved as a balanced reaction to these events which are but a snapshot in time.

If there is something wrong let us work to put it right and engage in honest debate. The fact that such debates are acted out on this stage is the neccessity of this age and conflict a part of real debate.

What planet are you on? Solipism?

You say: "I've wondered for ages why the right wing have a near monopoly on websites that feature tittle tattle and teasing of their political opponents. But I felt strongly that such gossip wasn´t suitable for LabourList and kicked around the idea of setting up another blog, Red Rag, where such stories might be published."
What planet do you live on? You and your "Downing Street friend" - who now appears to have resigned - have done more to set back the Labour cause than Tony Blair could have ever have done. Well done... while decent working class people struggle on you lot seem to concentrate on you own strange path.
This stinks of the Ross-Brand scandal - what next, will you be posting do shit through letter boxes? They didn't resign, will you.

The Times has the emails now.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6078542.ece

Mr Draper's reported reply to the email is interesting:

"The scurrilous suggestions and lurid language in the e-mail triggered panic in Downing Street yesterday but one person was clearly impressed. “Absolutely totally brilliant Damian,” fired back Draper 20 minutes after receiving McBride’s message in January. “I'll think about timing and sort out the technology this week so we can go as soon as possible.”

Right wing bloggers are getting jittery? You condone this sort of thing? And if it was about Gordon? Ah that would be different eh?

So GF makes things up? Doesn't appear to have this time does he luv?

Laura McNeil you haven't got a ******* clue. You're Fired!!

Give it a rest mate. Nobodies listening and nobody believes a word you say. You're not worth two bob.

Interesting to know that LabourList is now the subject of conversation down at the golf club.
Seems like the popularity of LabourList is growing by the day.

McBride was his PERSONAL ADVISOR. He was responsible for STRATEGY and POLICY. This goes to the heart of No 10 and to one of Gordon's right hand men. It is a disgrace. If the PM Knew he should go. f he didn't know, he appointed these clowns and his judgement is appalling. He should go. Now.

Today was a great day. Tomorrow may well be better.

One down, still much work to do.

You bring shame and degradation to the party. Do the last honourable thing you can do for it. Resign. Grow up and get a propoer job.

The line manager would have to go if they had recruited the offender and if they failed to take the appropriate action against the offender. In this case, the line manager has allowed the offender to resign, thus costing us all his pension rights, when even you agree he should have been fired for gross misconduct.

I know what speech marks are for. In case it escaped your attention, I used them to quote the same phrase that you did.

At what point did I suggest that you were in support of McBride? Please feel free to re-read my post and point out where I said that.

Typical Dolly Draper response. Unable to effectively argue, so you resort to name calling. Might I suggest that you grow up.

Oh Derek you are a complete joke. No wonder the Tories want you to stay. You must be the most odious man in British politics today with your lies and half truths.

Someone needs to get a grip on what is left of this situation - a better idea would have been to never have thought of this in the first place but that won't get us out of Dodge.

A few thoughts:
-1: How did these emails come to light? Unless your computer is hideously insecure, you have no clue wrt security on email/www, someone else has access to your email account or some very serious people are on this (in which case, change your bank accounts, financial details etc) then either (a) you have forwarded this email to someone and they have let it loose or (b) you are not being honest about your actions in this. However, this is detail and won't help in the immediate situation. You should feel very very very stupid though...
0: Right wing or independent bloggers are far better at this game than you are. labourlist is a really badly designed site both in terms of look-and-feel and in terms of content: from what I have read here, this is people inside the bubble talking to people inside the bubble. Read them, learn from them and then rely on the strength of your arguments. If the arguments are weak, think again and keep doing it until you get this right.
1: You must realize that Labour is not flavor of the month at the moment and so your environment is hostile. This means that even minor errors or misjudgements are open to magnification, which you cannot control (see point 0), and which will be deeply negative. 'Not making errors' is where you start. Given that this is not a minor error by any stretch of the imagination, then you are going to take a beating. You need to think of how you, personally, are going to limit the damage.
2: More widely, by this type of action, you damage whatever limited chances there are of any sort of non-Dave govt. being returned at the next election. This means that I have to live under these people. You, in principle, have some sort of say in whether a non-Dave govt. has a chance and you have dropped the ball in a manner for which I can't find suitable adjectives. This won't clinch the deal for Dave, but it is part of the 'death by ling chi' that govt's who have been in this long tend to die by - all the more reason to be tight. A quote, the provenance of which I forget that says 'There are times, perhaps once every thirty years, when there is a sea-change in politics. It then does not matter what you say or what you do. There is a shift in what the public wants and what it approves of.' This isn't 30 years, but the arguments are being lost. How does this situation help reverse that?
3: Things that might help: serious and genuine humility; absolute honesty when you discuss it or comment on it in the media; realization that you have been pwned and so this weak rebuttal battle is one to lose, in the hope that there might be some strategy by which you can win something back.

As I say, just some thoughts. Thanks for moving the prospect of a non-Dave govt closer. I feel much better and things are really looking up. On the bright side, if Guido Fawkes is independent as he claims, then he will do this to Dave too - Dave now has the advantage of knowing how not to do it.

You could be watching Brazil.

DD, you got dragged into a war with that idiot Dale, he turned you over, move on, leave the tory trash alone, put party first, expell the trolls from here and be part of the future.

Shame it wasn't GK.

Did you say something beastly to me? I've been the victim of an attempted cyber-bulling attack by a man who almost certainly has the dress sense and charisma of Gordon Brittas. Thrilling!

"Imagine if all your emails suddenly became available to people wanting to damage you."

Imagine if a Labour government in power just enabled itself to do exactly that...

Bloody hell! Northern Monkey? That can't
really be YOUR comment, can it?

The world is getting stranger by the day.

I suppose it falls to a Conservative (me) to
try and stick up for Derek Draper. Weird?
I suppose. But on the principle that everybody
is innocent until proven guilty. At least they
are for now. Given the way liberty is
eroding.... (shut up... undermining case...)

We don't know what these 'emails' say yet.
It really COULD turn out to be just childish
nastiness. Also, they could have been written
in lunch hours or personal time.

Sure, its no fun to tell lies and make people
look bad. But then again, it goes on all the time
in all walks of life. If it really is as trivial
as that then I suspect one head rolling and a bunch
of contrite apologies is really all that's necessary.

You guys might not like LabourList or Derek
Draper, but I think we need to see the evidence
before we start throwing ropes over low-hanging
branches. It's called fair play.

I guess I'd better duck and hide now. : )
My fellow Conservatives will be looking to
string me up too. -chuckle-

And what? We should just vote for Labour out of blind obedience? Labour sleaze has surpassed anything the Tories could do whilst they were in power. Over the last 12 years, sleaze within the ranks of Labour has just got worse with each passing election. Essentially, by electing them three times in a row, voters have sent the message "do as you please". And they have.

You mention that there are many positives that Labour can boast. Care to mention any of them? And please don't count fox hunting. Most of us could give a damn either way.

Derek, you don't need us to judge you for your actions. I think all the genuine Labour supporters, who you have let down, and who will now no longer look you in the eye, will do it instead. Be a man, stop spinning, and for gods sake grow up.

Oh how New Labour have fallen! It's even worse than the dying days of the last Conservative government - and that was pretty bad.
I and millions of other people who voted Labour in 1997 have been so badly let down by the sheer incompetence, greed, lies and sleaze that New Labour has succumbed to over the past few years.
And now we are expected to consider as just 'silly juvenile ideas' emails that were produced by a Downing Street advisor. And just how much money has been wasted on employing this person? Yet another example of Labour's squandering of taxpayers' money.
It is very reminiscent of the last days of the Tories. Just like then, Labour politicians simply haven't got a clue just how angry the electorate is with them and the way that they have mismanaged the country over the past few years.
And just like in 1997, the people of Britain can't wait to deliver a humiliating set of election results for Labour when Gordon gets the courage to call the election.1997 taught the electorate that they could give a political party a real good kicking at the ballot box - looks like 2010 will be Labour's turn.

Have to say I agree with everything said here Richard. Unfortunately I think Labour has now run out of any good ideas and has decided lieing, bullying and smearing your opponents is the way to go.

Give me a party that says "this is us, our ideas, our values" and letting their actions stand for them and I'll vote for them.

At this rate, it won't be Labour!

Obnoxio is quite correct.

Who recruited this man as a senior political strategist?

Who created the culture which made him think it is alright to behave in a disgusting fashion?

Step forward ghastly Gordon.

"I regret having had the original idea even if it didn't go anywhere..." well, it went to Downing Street and back. It has also seriously embarrassed the government and the PM has lost his senior political strategist.

Not bad for an "original idea". You are dynamite Derek.

Who cares how we, the public, found out how are taxes are being spent?

Is there any chance of the Labour Party politicarati spending time on getting us out of this economic depression rather than devoting taxpayers' time to smearing?

Are you an idiot? Speech marks in a sentence mean you are quoting from another person/source. The PM being 'in on it' was the gist of the guff Dorries was spouting on Radio 4. Oh, hang on, you are an idiot, in my last sentence I stated that it was the right thing for him to go as he had committed an act of gross misconduct. So how was my post in any way supporting McBride or in any way excusing his actions? Yes I am Labour but I can acknowledge when they are in the wrong.

Which civil servant, who's wages are paid for by YOU, the taxpayer, is involved in Guido Fawkes' blog?

As mentioned in today's PM, I'd rather my tax money is spent on ways to try and get out of Mr Brown's financial crisis rather than concentrating on smearing an equally disgraced party.

Nadine Dorries in The Telegraph -

"They say it's a bit of a joke but it is taxpayer's money and my career and my reputation are not a joke either."

Oh I don't know about that Nadine...

On a more serious note, If DD, D-Mac (as he's known in the hood) or anyone else thought it would be a good idea to get down in the gutter with Staines then I f***in despair.

Dr.... heal thyself.

I live in Barnsley mate. This Labour government is far from perfect, I acknowledge that. That said if you are on the left it is infinitely preferable to any Conservative alternative. To deny that there have been real improvements for ordinary people since 1997 is just disingenuous. Yes there have been stark staring policy disasters that make you want to cringe with shame but there are so many positives as well. When people say things like "I'm no Tory but I'm voting for DC just to get rid of this lot." it make me sick. If you vote for a Tory party you will get a Tory govt with Tory policy... And sleaze.

Mr Moderator
Have you Censored my previous reply to this utterance?
Or have you just knocked off for the night?

Ok, if you committed an act of gross misconduct at work, such as sending an offensive email about a colleague, not only should you lose your job but you would expect your line manager to go as well. Here in the grown up world individuals are responsible for their own actions. Keep frothing pal, and remember - never let the facts get in the way.

Don't go Derek, we need you

McBroon steers the Bismark, one hand on the helm, the other digging up his nostrils for sustinance. Meanwhile midshipman 'Dolly' Draper is in the steering room but the battleship has taken a direct hit below the waterline. The rudders are shattered and Dolly draper battles to bale out the seawater with a teacup. The Bismark is listing heavily, perilously close to capsizing.

A truly momentous Easter egg. A great moment that shall be celebrated by all true, patriotic British people this evening.

Just heard a classic quote from Dolly on CH4

"I wasn't lying on purpose"

Is there a psycotherapist in the house?

Who did McBride work for? Who brought McBride into No 10? What was McBride's job?

It's nothing to do with Gordon Brown. Of course not.

You comment included a disparaging reference to ' .. the old, I've voted Labour since I was in short trousers but never again... boo hoo" crowd'.

What is this about, please?

Here in Yorkshire (and in other - less fortunate - parts of the World) there are many people who have been born, bred (and buttered!) to instinctively vote for the party of progress and social justice.

Your comment suggests that we have been misled by our forbears into supporting Labour regardless of wht we stand for any particular any point in time.

Do you know whether it is possible for me to retrieve my ballot papers for the past 30-odd years and review and revise them in the light of experience?

What does it feel like to be the most odious man in the UK Derek? I mean, do people ever agree to sit next to you at dinner? What a clown you are--you are certainly the big joke at our golf club.

It is libel so long as it IS NOT TRUE - leaks sourced via hacking peoples personal email accounts highlights both a need to improve password security/strength AND (belt and braces) to remove anything from your online email account that, if discovered, would do damage to the credibility or reputation of those who are your friends OR are valuable to you ( or both)

As I listened to you on the telephone to PM this evening you seemed very hesitant. There were a lot of 'ums' and 'ers'. Was this because you had to wait while your nose grew a few more centimeters? Even on the radio I could hear your nose getting longer.

Nor was the state that the country is now in.

It was a big boy mister and he ran away.

Wake up and smell the stench.

Wishful thinking on your part. I am not a Conservative, yet I have left negative comments on this LabourList. I voted for Labour twice. And yes, I won't be voting again. Labour have let us all down badly. Now, you may be a die-hard labour devotee, but I'm not so blinkered. Just because people have grown angry at New Labour sleaze and dirty tactics, doesn't automatically mean they're paid up members of the conservative party. I think it's more telling that there are so few comments in support of New Labour policy and conduct. Surely there are some Labour members that would be able to add their own voices of support. Yet look at the comments on this subject, and there are a total of two in support. Look on LabourHome. They're also in support of McBride and Draper being booted out.

With regards to "the PM is in on this", unless someone provides a copy of an email from Gordon Brown sanctioning this, it isn't possible to say so for sure. But many people see Brown as a control freak, and it isn't hard to imagine him instructing McBride to initiate the smear campaign. The fact is, people don't trust Brown anymore. I know I don't.

You are having a laugh.
To expect us to believe that the arch control freak himself is not in this up to his axles is stretching us voters' credibility a teeny bit too far......

"Was criminal activity and hacking involved? Believe me, these are issues I will be looking at when I return from my holiday."

Lol! Love the sense of urgency about making your case!!

are dolly and hattie harperson deep cover tory plants? i think we should be told.

The end is nigh. And not just for this blog.

Does the sand get more damp the lower you go?

Not just Draper - Stephen Pound (MP) just accused Paul Staines of hacking into mail systems.

"We on the left should concentrate on ideas, policy and campaigns,"

....so then why were you setting up a deniable website to spread false and malicious stories and the sex lives, health of members of the Conservatives and LibDems?

.... why would any rational individual with any sense of morality even contemplate this

Your 'mate' has just gone. Close the door on your way out thanks.

Derek,

Don't bother replying to my earlier comment. You say in this piece "I am actually on holiday but I've taken an hour out to hit the keyboard and explain".

That's a lie. You've been in the TV studios all afternoon. As far as I am concerned everything else you say is lies too.

Forget it.

I find it incredible that most of the comments on Labour List are without doubt left by conservatives masquerading as outraged members of the public and even the old, "I've voted Labour since I was in short trousers but never again... boo hoo" crowd. Hearing the over egged and anguished indignation coming from Nadine Dorries on the Radio just now reminds me how truly awful the Tories are. "The PM Is in on this!" So, in addition to his duties as Prime Minister, Nadine wants him to act as moderator to anyone with a Downing Street email account. Grow up. This was an ill judged abuse of email which constitutes gross misconduct. The man responsible is now gone. Its nothing to do with Gordon Brown.

Derek Draper: "I completely deny that Damien Bride has anything to do with what we publish on LabourList"

Tomorrow we'll see if any of those emails match a story appearing in LabourList a day or so later.

(Interview with Andrew Neil, The Daily Politics
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/the_daily_politics/7965869.stm video clip at 5:23 onwards)

More shame on the party from Mr Lying Ego.

re. the emails, its only fair we read yours, the govt read all mine, or maybe your password was 'berkeley'.

Sorry but Guido's an independent he doesn't sit at Camerons right hand side, he certainly isn't paid out of public fnds and as for thinking that Labour could give the right wing blogs a run for there money, this won't happen until Lab are well into opposition

Why then has McBride been sacked, and no-one taken an action against Guido to shut him up?

My. Labour people were smarter way back, that's for sure.

Oh. Oh, ok. That explains it then. Yeah, right.

You must think us dumb to behave the way you do. When anyone challenges you you go off the rails. Odd, is it not, that tiy tout yourself as a therapist yet do not recognise in yourself one of the major traits of NPD.

Creepy.

Well, it seems your 'mate' has resigned.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7995044.stm

Did he really resign? Or was he fired, but given the option to 'resign' in order to save face.

And if it turns out that you were also the author of some of these emails, will you be 'resigning' from LabourList?

Over the last few months I have watched your wonderful contibutions to the Tory victory at the next General Election, so far without feeling the need to comment.

However I feel I really must take this last opportunity to congratulate you on plumbing new depths of awfulness while you are still part of this blog.

We are going to miss you greatly. Good luck in your future career, whatever it may be......

I thought I'd register today as - much like "your friend in No10" I fear you may soon be adding to our terrible tally of unemployed. Why did you go on TV to lie about this? It was a bit like your pathetic piece in the Observer a couple of years ago pleading for you and your dim wife to be given a Prime Time Political Talk Show. Do you have any pride Mr Draper? Does anyone in the Labour Party realise how stupid they are to bring back bad rubbish such as your good self? After all the cash for access stuff, why could you retire disgracefully and leave us all alone? This is not some minor spat. It shows how pathetic the inner workings of No10 is. When added to sheer incompetence of our economic policy, it's simply too much to bear...

I have had a business for 40 years, I recently viewed your performance on "The Daily Polotics" and I must say you would not even be good enough to clean out the toilets!!

I thought Labour said the Tories were the nasty party? What happened?

He left for a few years and look how he has come back. Don't you seriously think he should go and NOT come back.

Dear Union that pays for this nightmare,

Please accept the comments on this post as the latest Labour List poll.

As you will be needing a lot of money soon for striking workers, can I suggest that you keep your member's subs for that and not blowing on this nightmare.

As Mr. Draper has now made the comments on TV that his email has been hacked, I have in the last few minutes written to the Metropolitian Police Commissioner asking him to investigate these serious allegations.

Maybe you could also send out a letter to all members of your union that you have been supporting this and reminding them that they are able to complete a simple form to ensure that none of their subs go to the Labour Party.

Living in hope.

Just A. Punter.

God no, he'll only spend more time as a psychotherapist conning vulnerable people out of their money. Spin doctor and shrink, now that really is a career path to be proud of!

On the contrary, the longer he hangs around, the greater the final collapse will be.

Don't go, Derek, we're loving this!

Is censorship in operation?

I reported at 5.00 that McBride had resigned (heard on Radio 4 news) and I mentioned in passing it was a pity he wasn't sacked by Uncle Gordon rather than let him resign - and the comment has not appeared, though one on another thread I posted afterwards has. odd.

Derek,

Your behaviour is continually embarrassing the party, almost on a weekly basis.

I think it's time for you to resign from your post and leave politics for a good few years.

Oopsy-daisy Derek. 'Your friend' is gone. Men with long knives are looking for you... watch your back!

Mr. Draper,
I have just heard your interview on the 5.00pm. news on BBC radio 4. After you had used the words 'you know' in excess of 30 times I lost count and interest in your pathetic whining, of course your e-mail has not been hacked into, someone with legal access and a shred of decency decided you and McBride had gone too far, and he has gone very quickly, enjoy the long years ahead of you in the political wilderness of opposition

Mr Draper, what goes around comes around. I look forward to you cutting short your holiday ( isn't your pointless life a holiday every day ? ) to resign from whatever position you occupy in the comedy comrades network called faied McNew McLabour. You are a bottom feeder, aged about 8, as these e-mails show.

Goodbye, missing you already....

Dear Derek,

How can you honestly conclude with:

"At the end of the day, though, the lesson is that we should leave tittle tattle and gossip to the right wing blogosphere. We on the left should concentrate on ideas, policy and campaigns, which is what LabourList, whatever is thrown at us, will continue to do."

It is right that the lesson of this is that you should leave tittle tattle well alone. But, to claim that you are now leaving this to the right wingers is baloney. As far as I can see (and I would not consider myself right wing), the only reason anybody is embroiled in this is yours. You started this (as emails prove) and then lied about it. So get off their back.

Moreover, to say that you will continue to concentrate on ideas, policy and campaigns suggests that this was what you were doing all along. The only campaign you have been running is one of smear.

Fair enough, apologise. But then move on. Don't lie any more! Enough of these petty games.

Or are deluded enough to believe that this was all the fault of the right wing?

Please move on, and make politics respectable again.

nice one just as i thought, ho wmuch lower can New Labour go, not much.

Given that the individual who wrote these emails was doing so whilst we, the taxpayer, were paying his wages, may we see them, please?

I'd stay away on holiday if I was you (perhaps til after June 2010) - I'm sure Gordon would prefer it that way.

Six things Gordon Brown can do to help Labour. Sent to LabourList months ago and various senior Labour strategists. No reply at all. Trying again, because they are way less dumb than Damian McBride's ideas for smearing the Tories. How much does the taxpayer fork out for D McBride and does he get any Labour party money? Willing to do his job at half the price.

First: agree to pre-election TV debates with the other party leaders. Not having them looks cowardly. TV debates will counteract voter apathy, which will hit Labour worse than the other parties. Do you believe that your leadership is an asset to the party? If so, TV debates will showcase it and however you perform they will focus voters’ minds on whether they want to replace you with David Cameron.

Second: cut out any appeals, direct or by implication, to Britain’s wartime spirit. This dismal cliché is traditionally associated with third-rate governments. Very few voters can now remember the war and those that do simply do not identify you with Winston Churchill.

Third: stop saying that Britain will pull out of recession faster than its competitors. No international survey suggests this and there is far too much counter-evidence available each day to voters. If the British economy is really stronger than everyone else’s why is the pound falling? Millions of Britons travel overseas each year, on business or pleasure: they see many things which work better than they do in Britain (not least airports and public transport) – they tend not to see the things which are worse. Thousands of Britons have migrated overseas to get a better life. Most are still voters and they describe their life to other voters who are family and friends. They will not buy the Britain-is-strongest line, especially if they are forced to return to Britain by the fallen pound.

Fourth: admit that there were some errors and failures in your economic record. (I’ve got a little list). Deny this and voters will find you arrogant, even delusional. You took full credit when the economy seemed to be doing well, voters expect you to accept responsibility when it is near collapse. If you cannot admit the truth about the past, why should voters believe anything you say about the present and the future? Admit some mistakes and explain why they will not happen again. That will not only restore your economic reputation but your moral stature – something you have often paraded to voters.

Fifth: provide some plausible reason for not nationalizing the banks outright. All that voters see in present policy is bottomless sums of money taken from their taxes and savings to bail out the least competent and least popular people in the country. Voters have been forced to give unlimited support to the banks without getting any control over their behaviour. Bankers still pay themselves offensive bonuses: they deny basic finance to business and homebuyers. This situation makes no sense to voters. They have written the banks a blank cheque – so explain why they cannot take them all over and give them orders?

Sixth: provide some clear vision of a different future when and if the present crisis is over. How are we going to make our living as a country? For ten years we relied on financial services and house price inflation to generate growth and activity in the economy and provide tax revenues to finance spending on public services. That idea seemed to work for a long time but ultimately it crashed. Are we going back there? It looks ominously as if that is your plan when and if the financial sector ever recovers. You have called for a bit more regulation, some new accountancy standards, and more economic summits. Then we can restore the world before the crunch.

If that is your plan – forget it. You will not get another lease of power if voters think they will face a repeat crisis in five or ten years’ time when they are still paying back the debts from the present one.

By all means get your photo taken with Barack Obama but do not use only his image, steal his campaign slogan as well: Change You Can Believe In. Tell voters what new industries will give them and their children a job, provide stable growth in the economy and yield enough revenue to pay for pensions and public service. Explain why your government alone can bring these new industries into being and why they should come to Britain rather than anywhere else. Make this vision believable to enough voters and you have a real chance of winning the next election.

If this is all false, then why did McBride resign?

And, girlie, no-one is moaning about political parties slagging each other off, they're moaning because a supposedly impartial civil servant is using tax money for this nonsense.

"From where I stand, the left are pretty damn good at it too!"

Am not so sure about that Chris ;-)

That's why no reputable political party would touch my output with a bargepole.

So, you're writing for Labour then?

The difference appears to be that GF isn't affiliated to a political party - ie. he's not called the ToryList.

You may feel he is, but as far as I can tell he has a go at any MP that put's his / her head above the parapit. For example, with all the dodgy goings on with Labour MP's recently, where has ANYONE on here stood up and said "they were wrong"?

As far as I can tell on here, there is always an excuse and I've read on more than one occasion it was "down to the Tories". For ****'s sake - you've been in power for 12 years!!!

The fact appears to be that Derek Draper LIED on this site and on TV. It now maybe that he is lieing / smearing over how the information was obtained.

Various other Labour MP's have been caught out as well. It's all very well saying the Tories are just as bad, but they don't seem to be being caught as much and they are not running the country (mind you, I do wonder if this lot actually are).

They are also not the ones who painted themselves as "no more Tory sleaze". And then set about being even sleazier!!

Draper lied three times on the Daily Politics show.

How many lies did Guido tell?

There's your answer.

Derek Draper is spot on?????? On what exactly?

Maybe Freudian on your part but is "ring wing" allowed here?

here here

What planet are you on. Draper is an insult to british politics shame on him and his band of perverse politicians

Draper you are a shameful, deceitful politician from the gutter. I have just listened to your pathetic attempt to devalue the shear obscene emails you referred to. The only silver lining is you have helped to drive a further nail into your deceitfull blacker than black new labour ideology party. PS I am not a Tory but I would vote for DC just to get you and your kind out of politics. Good bye

May I suggest that McBride donates his bonus/pension/salary or what ever he gets for doing a non-job to the 'Get a New Web Server for LabourList' campaign.

In other news, Laura McNeil blames everything in history on those nasty righties...

McBride has resigned within the last hour. Rather a pity: Brown should have got in first and sacked the idiot. Brown really is Major Mark 2

I have voted labour all my life. I have watched with growing horror your disgraceful conduct. The vile arrogant shouty appearances on the media. The twisting lieing misrepresentation of your opponents views, and the bullying hypocritical allegations of racism misused to silence truthful criticism. Above all Mr Draper I have watched my parties enemies utterly destroy you: by allowing you to let everyone else see what they already knew - that you are an unscrupulous, egotistical, incompetent chancer with no real values of any kind, let alone Labour values. Go I beseech you, let us have done with you; get back under your rock.

Freud (not Matthew) would have had a field day with you. "We on the left should concentrate on dishonesty, wriggling and smears, which is what LabourList, whatever is thrown at us (like popular derision), will continue to do".

PS: Derek, I think talk of hacking is silly. Start with the people who have access to your email. Yourself for one. Have you forwarded these particular emails anywhere? And others with server side privileges could also get hold of your emails of course.

Q. Have you forwarded these emails anywhere?
A. Yes or No will do.

If there was more than one recipient, or if the email was forwarded, it becomes actionable as a published document.

Can't see how private emails could be actionable. The stuff wasn't published by either end of the conversation AFAIK. Guido is the one causing it to be published, along with the papers involved. And we only have Guido's word for it that any of the content of this private conversation is either untrue or would in fact be untrue/libellous if published. He also said that much of it was "obscene" and talked without a flicker of a smile of "poetic licence" being employed by McBride.

Derek Draper is spot on, and as per usual the ring wing blogging fraternity are getting jittery that Labour have attempted to give them a run for their money in terms of making up rubbish about their political opponents, now whilst 2 wrongs don’t make a right nothing ever got written or published, and for Guido Fawkes to be bringing people’s attention to smears and slurs is utterly ridiculous, and somewhat hilarious considering the filth that appears on his blog on a daily basis, so whilst the right wing started this infantile and juvenile behaviour Labour should not have attempted to go down to their level. It’s all quite pathetic but hilariously ironic that the likes of Guido Fawkes is jumping up and down claiming false slurs and smears, when it’s the worst offender.

Car Crash Blogging: http://tinyurl.com/chrispLOL68.

Pot, kettling and black - oops - sorry.

I'm going to miss this blog.

The speed at which things are moving I may be the last one to comment on it.

Where's the light switch

Brown is pathologically incapable of being 'cured'.

You just have to watch him and listen. If there was ever a person out of touch with reality it is Gordon "I saved the world" Brown.

This whole affair is despicable - as is your response Derek. Typically you try to justify what has happened instead of saying sorry we got it wrong! Nothing changes does it. And as for a civil servant doing this while being paid by us the taxpayer - words fail me! I just know that many people in the private sector (i.e. the real world) would have been sacked for less.

Fianally, as for the dreadful idea of people having access to your emails, this is just what this Labour governemnt is proposing to do; have access to all our emails. But of course it probably wouldn't affect anyone with friends in the right places.

Brown's hideous disloyalty to Blair exemplified the low standard of behaviour deemed acceptable among Brown's slimy entourage.

There's no surprise here.

Not much support for McBride and yourself in the comments, Derek. Care to respond to any of them?

I suggest you visit another New Labour project - Labourhome.

I see they are supporting you in their droves. That is if 'droves' is still a politically correct word.

Some of us will be delighted when politicians get down to the business of getting the country out of the mess it is in and stop playing childish games.

http://tinyurl.com/d9sthp

This is an interesting but failed attempt at self-justification. It is also worthy of note that what you wrote really only stands up based on what we know today, Saturday. Tomorrow, some of these emails are going to be in the public domain. We will know who sent what to whom, and perhaps most importantly, who was copied in. And then, I suspect, what you have put here is going to look stupid, pathetic and dishonest. Tomorrow, therefore, has potential!

Apparently the content of some of the emails is so unpleasant they cannot be published.

Rumour is McBride has fallen, in which case, Dolly, you have too.

So Draper, you lied on here and you lied on TV. You now expect us to believe the utter twaddle here?

How did they get the emails? I think you'll find that not so long ago Guido requested them from "your friend" under the Freedom of Information Act, also adding that if he destroyed them he was committing a criminal act (feel free to correct me if I am wrong anyone).

If that's true (which I believe is the case) there was NO HACKING involved. You got caught and are now trying to weasle your way out of it all instead of putting your hands up. Taint and smear eh? And you want us to vote for things you stand for??

Personally I think this goes a lot higher than is being let on and I also note how quiet the other contributors are on here. Prescott? Miller? Charlie Hardluck?

Makes you wonder how much of the other stuff on here is a pack of lies...

What do we see next in the right hand column.

The Daily Quote

Bye.

Derek Draper
pp The Labour Government.

As bullshit explanations go, this is right up there with Blackadder's "Great Booze Up".

Well done, Mr Draper, very creative.

Word is that McBride has been fired. Where does that leave you Derek with your 'these were silly juvenile ideas' defence?

I would have thought this response would have been better on your personal blog rather than on the front page of a so called independent campaigns website? It's a little hypocritical to say that it is only the right who are good at smearing the left. From where I stand, the left are pretty damn good at it too!

http://www.labourhome.org/story/2009/4/11/5586/43767

Seems like Labour supporters want to see the back of you Derek. Care to do everyone a favour and get lost?

McBride was being paid by the taxpayer when he was "batting around a few ideas" on how to smear the Tories. That's contrary to the Civil Service code as his job is not political. How many Labour aparatchiks are we paying for the dream up ways of smearing your opponents?

This is just as much a fraud on taxpayers as Jacqui Smith's "second" home, Tony McNulty's, two houses in London, Darling renting out his "second home", Harry Cohen's holiday home in Clacton etc etc.

Oh, and of course the fact that these vicious smears you were "dreaming up" affected a mother of teenage girls is irrelevant as well isn't it? I hope she sues McBride for millions and wins. Sadly it will his taxpayer funded civil service pension which pays for it!

In your post titled "Why I'm considering legal action against the Guido/Hencke smear" you state as follows...

"This behaviour is unprofessional and, as I said earlier, reprehensible. That is why I have instructed my lawyers to consider what legal action I should take"

I find it ironic that you and Damian McBride have now been shown to have behaved in an even more unprofessional and reprehensible manner. And it is my undeniable desire that you are subjected to the legal action that you were so keen to take against Guido.

Just a bit of advice... Try to behave yourself in court. I don't think a judge will take kindly to being told to shut up, or to be referred to as a Tory troll.

...."the other question that needs to be asked: how were these emails obtained? Was criminal activity and hacking involved?" I think you'll find that the questions that everybody else wants answered will in fact be answered when you print the emails yourself and show the distribution.

There are few people interested in your attempted self justification or focus shifting.

It is said (on another blog) that McBride has resigned. As Derek Draper commissioned the email will he resign too?

This shower of plonkers surrounding and including the present government seem to have reached a new low. Who would have thought that possible?

Come on Derek. Front up. Surely the best idea would be for you to defuse the whole row by simply publishing the silly emails yourself. After all, they were nothing more than a bit of harmless banter, and any grown-up will be able to see that for him/herself.

By the way, I love The Daily Quote:
"The Shadow Chancellor wants the wages of 5 million teachers, nurses, police and cleaners cut to ease government debt..."

Christ knows where the idiotic Tory toff going to find the wages of 5 million teachers, nurses, police and cleaners given that in the whole of the 5.9 million strong public sector there are only 1.2 million teachers, doctors, nurses and police...

But hey - maybe there are 3.8 million cleaners!

Mr Draper, UK unemployment is about to rise. I suggest you look for a post as a Big Issue salesman. Do you have a dog and a length of string? What about taking Broon along with you? You could probably collect more money by having a blind man by your side.

Derek,

You say these were just “some emails I was sent in January” as you were looking for 'tittle tattle' but felt that “such gossip wasn´t suitable for LabourList”. If that is so why did you publish a vicious attempted character assassination of Paul Staines on labourList? Presumably what you mean by 'tittle tattle' is stuff which is more aggressive and more libellous than that? Could you clarify exactly what type of material you were planning on publishing?

Let's get this clear. Only 'one' of your friends 'knew of any good gossip'? Is that true? Do you honestly expect me to believe that? Can you consider the implications for the Labour Party and you of saying 'untruths' now?

You say these are 'stories that were being gossiped about in Westminster'. Again, is that really true? Or was there any attempt at fabrication?

Could you let us know which stories you felt were 'a bit juvenile', which 'inappropriate' and which 'in bad taste' as well as those which were 'brilliant and rather funny'. Presumaby when you received stories in the first three categories, you would have let your friend know that you disapproved of them. Can you please release the email in which you informed him that these stories were 'inappropriate' or 'in bad taste'?

Your 'Downing Street friend' has apologised, you say. Is this a plublic apology on record? Would you mind explaining exactly to whom he has apologised, and for what? Is it to the people he has mentioned in his emails, or is it to the Prime Minister for sending mails like this out from his office? Or is it simply for getting caught?

You say this was not 'a big project orchestrated in Downing Street'? Fair enough. So we can assume it WAS orchestrated in Downing Street, but it was what you would call a little project?

You ask if we are going to judge people for having silly ideas. Surely, if they are officers of the Civil Service or working in the givernment, then we should? Do you mean that it is a good thing that this Labour government contains people who have silly ideas?

You say that when you get back from your holiday, you will be 'looking at' the question of how these emails were obtained and whether criminal activity was involved. Since they were apparently sent from 10 Downing Street, and you are an independent blogger, could you let us know in what capacity you will be doing this? Are you part of the 10, Downing Street security team? Surely that is a job for the POLITICALLY INDEPENDENT police or security services?

I do not understand at all your last two paragraphs. You say that a 'friend' sending you 'inappropriate' gossip in some sense 'show[s] the nature of these right wing blogs'. I'm sorry, Derek, I simply don't get that - could you explain the logic? You also describe the release of emails which you yourself say are at least partly 'inappropriate' 'is because of the fact that we criticised the racist comments on one of these sites'. Again, I'm sorry, I simply can't make your thinking out there. Could you explain what you mean?

Before you respond to any of these questions, could you please consider whether there are any statements you have made today which, with the benefit of hindsight, you might like to correct. Uny 'untruths' in what you have said, or in any clarifications, would be very unfortunate for the government and the Labour Party.

I'm all for writing scurrilous filth about politicians. I do it all the time.

That's why no reputable political party would touch my output with a bargepole.

I think the Labour Party are learning this lesson the hard way. As predicted, widely.

This story involves many of the people who helped Gordon Brown stick the knife into Blair's back and topple him from power.

Gordon Brown is an idiot to condone allowing his spinners to plan dirty smear campaigns.

This story further demonstrates the smell of decay at the highest levels of government.

You're finished Draper. Why don't you give up this empty political posturing and concentrate on studying for a valid qualification in psychotherapy? Perhaps you'd be able to cure Brown...

"There is no doubt these were silly juvenile ideas but that is all they were"

Ok, so post the emails before the Sunday Papers do. Show us that they were just "silly juvenile ideas". Let us judge for ourselves...

"Let's not forget that the reason we are being attacked in the first place is because of the fact that we criticised the racist comments on one of these sites. And, incidentally, they are furious that my friend in Downing Street emailed me about that too, calling my attention to it, but I am glad that he did."

This sounds like you wern't being entirely truthful when you, and Stains went head to head with Andrew Neil the other week and deigned the existence of any emails, or am I misinterpreting what you said..?

“Let’s not forget that the reason we are being attacked in the first place is because of the fact that we criticised the racist comments on one of these sites. And, incidentally, they are furious that my friend in Downing Street emailed me about that too, calling my attention to it, but I am glad that he did.”

On the Daily Politics Show “I completely deny that Damien McBride has ever blah, blah, blah”

Oh dear Derek.

Once a rat faced oily whelk of a weasel, always a rat faced oily whelk of a weasel eh?

Guilty as charged M’Lord.

Caught with your pants down hey? tut, tut, tut

Oh dear Derek...

The 'mate', 'one of them' and 'my Downing Street friend' in question is none other than Damian McBride, who as you well know is a civil servant paid at the public expense and bound by the civil service code of conduct.

He used a government email address to pass to you ideas for stories to embarrass Tory MPs. Please explain how that is appropriate behaviour for a civil servant?

What's more, I understand that it wasn't simply a bit of knock about between you and McBride. Others were involved. Will anyone be shocked if Tom Watson's name appears on the distribution list of the emails when they are published?

Carry on dreaming Derek. The spin doesn't work anymore.

Come off it, it won't wash. Neither of the people involved in this are kids. You all know the consequences of your actions and to try and weasel out of responsibility like this is just pathetic.

First off, if a crime has been committed, i.e. the hacking of email accounts, why haven't the Police been called in to investigate? As the account concerned appears to be an official civil service account linked closely to the PMs office, I would hope that any hacking going on would be immediately reported and investigated. Or is the hacking story just a cover to try and discredit the source of the emails?

As for the emails being jokey humorous banter... I don't think that washes either.
The emails were sent from offical accounts, between people heavily involved in advising and promoting the Labour Government. Red Rag wasn't a joke, it had been set up and I'm sure the content of the emails will flesh out what content it was going to eventually contain.

This episode shows how morally bankrupt the Labour party machine really is. If I was a party activist, I'd really have to look myself in the mirror and ask the question would I want to be part of a party that employs senior staffers who conduct themselves in this way.

The only course of action is for those involved to leave the party.

If they don't then Labour has lowered itself to a new low: tabloid politics.

"That is, of course, the other question that needs to be asked: how were these emails obtained? Was criminal activity and hacking involved?"

Do you even have the first clue where to start? You don't even understand how blogging works - and government "experts" are notoriously inept where technology is concerned. Do you know your POP from your IMAP?

From what I've gathered it was an insider who leaked the emails because s/he was so disgusted at what was being planned. If this is a case you really are finished - the "just having a joke" meme isn't going to work if it was one of your own that stuck the knife in out of disgust.

It just shows that Labour are really hitting the bottom. I think like Majors government it's well past it's sell by date, and they look now at ways to discredit Cameron and his party, and all it's doing is working right into Cameron's hand.

People are not interested in bull they want to know how the hell your going to give people jobs, how we are going to return to work, keep our houses, not some childish plot to ruin somebody through tittle tattle.

Dear Derek

I always felt that you were an honourable man. It's not your fault the labour party has been taken over by a bunch of warmongering torturers and incompetents.
Come back to the fold Derek. National socialism is not the way. Stand up and be counted. Let truth and honour be your guide.

"Imagine if all your emails suddenly became available to people wanting to damage you"

That's exactly what Labour have enabled. It is now the LAW.

Live by the sword Derek, die by the sword.

"Imagine if all your emails suddenly became available to people wanting to damage you." It was a No10 email address.

If it was in Thatcher's time wouldn't you want someone to make sure it got out?

Publish the emails in full before the Sunday papers if that's all they were.

You really are 'avin a larf with "We on the left should concentrate on ideas, policy and campaigns, which is what LabourList, whatever is thrown at us, will continue to do."

Maybe this post will outdo my post (which I believe was the most commented on post on the site) on comments and I hope it is by people like me who are now totally disgusted with the Labour.

Still waiting on the question in my post being answered. Obviously Damien doesn't have an answer for me either.

1 Corithnians 13:11

Who is Ollie Cromwell?

http://webwhois.nic.uk/cgi-bin/whois.cgi?query=theredrag.co.uk&WHOIS+Submit.x=67&WHOIS+Submit.y=16

Come on, open and transparent!

But you denied on live TV that they existed. You honestly cannot say that this blog or whatever you want to call it is independent.

People must start voting Jury Team candidates.

That has to be the most pathetic excuse I've ever read.

I suspect it'll look all the worse tomorrow when the emails are published.

Never mind Derek it's been nice knowing you.

I think the only criminal matter here is criminal libel. But I believe we will all have the opportunity to judge for ourselves tomorrow, when a Sunday paper is, apparently, going to publish some texts from the emails.