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Bob Ainsworth misses the key point: our security needs have changed

Defence PaperBy Darrell Goodliffe

Bob Ainsworth wants a "debate" on defence following the launch of the Ministry of Defence Green Paper. There were some predictable responses; the The Times waded in saying that Britain may be "broken" but not so broke that it can't afford to continue to splash large amounts of cash on defence.

In general, the left tends not to like talking about defence except in a negative way when it opposes wars (rightly, mostly) or various things like nuclear weapons (very rightly). However, in terms of developing a positive agenda there tends to be too little said, which is bad because it engages with wider ideological debates about Britain's role in the world and the so-called "War on Terror".

The first thing that should be said is that the defence budget should be cut. It has ballooned under Labour at a frankly ridiculous rate; in fact, the Ministry of Defence tells us:

"By 2010/11 the Budget will be some 11% higher in real terms than in 1997, and represents the longest period of sustained growth since the 1980s."

This is, of course, due to the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan, but it is also worth noting that these figures do not cover the money funneled from other areas into the defence budgets for these two conflicts.

However, the notion that traditional military solutions are appropriate in the "War on Terror" have rightly taken a credibility bashing following the horrific human costs of both operations, which have also strained international alliances to breaking point. Greater multilateralism makes more sense in the current climate. But it's hard to achieve in practice when one or two powers (Britain and the US in the case of Iraq) become intent on pursuing their own course of action.

Missing from the Green Paper is a recognition that fighting this war by conventional military means has been deeply short-sighted, counter-productive and disgracefully destructive of human lives and entire nations. One of the very few means of defence against terrorist attacks is good quality intelligence, something that requires transnational cooperation; the good will of other governments as opposed to the animus generated by reckless invasion. Rather than change based on this recognition the Green Paper proposes change based on the desire to cut costs to achieve the same by spending less:

"This government believes the UK's interests are best served by continuing to play an active global role, including through the use of armed force when required."

This is the source of the Paper's weakness, because it fails to question the premises that underpins policy – and it is actually the fundamental premises that are flawed.

For example, the suggestion that Britain should keep a nuclear deterrent should be seen in a new light: what if these weapons were turned against us, for example? Increasingly, the public is questioning whether maintaining these weapons is appropriate financially or logistically, let alone the many moral questions which arise. So, in light of that, the continued attachment of the government to these weapons is baffling.

Rationally, the Green Paper should have recognised that things like nuclear weapons and their possession is perhaps now a greater danger than a deterrent. Money spent on defence should be cut to the bare minimum and it should either be redirected to social needs or, where appropriate, towards intelligence gathering. Let's have the debate Ainsworth wants and watch these proposals unravel under the weight of their own contradictions.

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Posted on Feb 07, 2010 at 02:20pm

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First off, thanks for actually coming back to the thread. Many LL posters throw their article to the site and maybe pop back but often don't.

To expand the remit would mean giving spooks massivly more resources (tens of billions of pounds to be effective) and allowing them to kill more. Then you would have a lot of laptops and high tech gear but no way to, for example, defend British interests and people in the Falklands, help defend Belize, stop British people being taken by pirates, stop drug trafficking in the Caribbean, protect our fisheries, deliver aid to hurricaine hit areas and much, much more.

How can we mount effective anti drug / piracy patrols with a 'relatively small cost'? You need ships to do this and they need crews.

How can we mount effective peacekeeping if we have a small military? You would like to see Bosnia happen again and the UK to be 100% impotent? Or would it be someone elses problem?

If the Troubles break our again in N Ireland what would we do?

How can we mount humanitarian expeditions if we don't have transport / lift capability and people to deliver it?

How will we deal with floods / fire brigade strikes / petrol strikes without the manpower of the armed forces?

Other nations can't be relied upon to provide support, forces, ships, tanks, intelligence or anything else. Especially if it does not directly impact them.

We have created hot spots and ended wars. No one said we are in all hotspots but you would have us withdraw from all of these areas and abandon our commitments to protect people. Pulling out of hotspots would mean people will die.

Military capability is one of the prime factors in influence.

If we scale back our underfunded and overstretched forces then who will provide the units for a common EU force? France and Germany perhaps? You will abdicate all chances at having a say about what it is and what it does if you bring nothing to the table.

A common European defence outside NATO will still need planes, ships, carriers, tanks, nuclear capacity and troops. You would have us give these up and you think that would show commitment to European defence? How can coming in from a position of weakness show a commitment to defence?

You have a charmingly naive view of international relations.

So you can't define 'bare minimum' then and have given it no real thought. It's a nice buzz word but just shows lack of depth of thinking on the issue.

You also haven't answered where the British military has been used for aggressive expansionism.

You seem to forget we do have obligations and responsibilities around the world. You may be happy to abandon them and leave our friends and allies in danger and peril but other people are not. You may be an isolationist but others are not. You may fear the military and see it as alien but others do not.
Konrad Baxter @ 4 weeks and 2 days ago
@Konrad,

Then maybe an extension of that remit. Alot of the things you talk about can be maintained at a relatively small cost and done in wider conjunction with others that cost can be reduced still further.

Given that we have done our fair share in creating 'hotspots' I have no problem answering yes to that. Besides the notion that we are in every 'hotspot' is absurd.


There more ways to be influential than through military force. Scaling back would show a deeper committment to a common European defence than trying vainly to maintain a unilateralist stance. Similary the best way to defend our interests in those contexts is through common action.

'Bare Minimum' means that which is actually required for our defence as opposed to that which is required to strut around the world stage like some puffed-up peacock creating more problems than we solve.
Darrell Goodliffe @ 4 weeks and 2 days ago
Also, where has the British military been used for 'aggressive expansionism' in recent years? I can't remember the size of the UK getting bigger through military action recently. In fact, the size of British administered territory seems to have shrunk dramatically...
Konrad Baxter @ 4 weeks and 3 days ago
The intelligence services are not designed or equipped or empowered to 'take action' outside a rather narrow remit. They would be useless in many circumstances. Sure, 007 is impressive but he isn't real Darrell.

So you would end our anti drug patrols then? And our anti piracy patrols? Best to let other people stop the drugs that head towards our nation isn't it? And let other nations deal with the international menace of piracy which directly affects the UK.

And the defence of places like the Falklands? Forget it. Let them be taken over by aggressive, anti democratic neighbours (and yes that is a reference to 2010, not 1982).

Pull out of every international hotspot and let others do the work? You bet.

Undermine any claim we have to be an influential nation by pulling out of anything that looks icky? At once.

Abandon people to ethnic cleansing and aggressive neighbours? Sure.

Forfeit any ability to shape a common European military or common European defence strategy? As soon as possible please.

In an age of apparant mass migration due to climate change and possible resource wars abandon any chance to defend our interests? Sure.

Hope that in the future no one will think to menace the UK ever again for any reason? Here's hoping!

Cut back on the resources that allow the UK to respond to humanitarian disasters at home and abroad? Yes.

Renege on the cornerstone of European defence? Yes please.

Forfeit the power and influence (for good or ill) the military gives us in exchange for a few more spooks who will have no clout and more money for the dole to buy votes? Yep.

You sleep well in your soft bed Darrell because rough men are prepared to commit violence on your behalf. They also allow many other people to sleep well, rescue others and make sure some never trouble us.

Out of interest, what would you say the 'bare minimum' should be? What would you be happy with? Have you given it any deep thought?
Konrad Baxter @ 4 weeks and 3 days ago
@Bill

The figures dont simply dont back you up. I would suggest the answer to your question is simple; the intelligence services take the appropiate action not the 'Forces' as you describe them.

Konrad,

Again the thing is I dont see alot of what you list as obligations we need to fufil in many cases and in the case of something like 'defending our territory' there are better ways to do it than through our own agressive expansionism.
Darrell Goodliffe @ 4 weeks and 3 days ago
@Mike: Fine, let's just be totally isolationist, give up on Nato etc. and that should meet your needs.

Heard the one about the Caribbean guard ship that 'Bob' removed to save some dosh, then Haiti happened and guess what? The ship was turned round and redeployed at more cost than if he had just left it alone.

The Guardinistas forget this combination of humanitarian and political impact the RN has, even now, in their rush to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Trident should be binned - it is a political weapon and has no other purpose except for a bit of 'willy waving'. The RAF is struggling to find a post cold war purpose as it does not have the front line aircraft suitable for the sort of conflict the UK finds itself in - Stirrup's idea of converting Eurofighter to a multi role capable aircraft is farcical, expensive and only BAE Systems think it is a good idea (another £10 billion or so on top of the £22 billion that they have already harvested from the MoD for the Eurofighter project). The reality is the real cost of the 30 Eurofighters that the RAF has pilots and funds to fly would have bought ten times as many F35 VSTOLS.

In the mean time aircraft that are actually needed have been blocked by the Chancellor turned Prime Minister. His political genius means that IED teams in Afghanistan take over two hours to reach an incident putting at risk the lives of the very service personnel he brays on about supporting.
Peter Thomson @ 4 weeks and 3 days ago
The reason we spend so much on defence - and let's cut Iraq and Afghanistan out of the sums here - is due to the fact we have commitments and obligations. Sure, in a world of pixie dust and gun drop houses we wouldn't need to spend as much as we do but the truth is we need to spend it and we need to spend more.

We run anti drug and anti piracy patrols. We stop people (in nations 'far away that we know little about') killing each other. We defend our territory at home and abroad. We stop wars by our presence. We can deliver aid or bombs around the world. We stop expansionism. We deter aggression. We defend and p[romote our interests. We support our friends and ex-enemies.

Now you may be prepared to drop our obligations and make us total hostages to fortune but more engaged and progressive people will not let this happen.

If nuclear weapons are turned against us we can incinerate those who do this.

The 'bare minimum' would mean that the UK would lose it's UN Security Council seat and would soon see it's power and influence across the world collapse. European foreign policy would then be set only by France and Germany and we would be an irrelevance.

It would also put areas of the world in increased danger if we ran away from our obligations.
Konrad Baxter @ 4 weeks and 3 days ago
"Defence could and in my view, should be cut by far more"

Perhaps a rebrand, howsabout calling it Offence and Liberal Interventionism could be Colonial Crusaders , it even sounds like one of them trendy American footie teams.
Charlie Farley @ 4 weeks and 3 days ago
I hope you're reading this Argentina, the message is clear. Next time you invade the Falklands, they're all yours, we won't be coming to take them back.
Road Hog @ 4 weeks and 3 days ago
The question really is how interventionist we should be, or more to the point, how much we should support American interventionism.

Defence could and in my view, should be cut by far more, but that means absolutely no participation in any overseas jaunts for humanitarian reasons or otherwise.
Mike Homfray @ 4 weeks and 4 days ago
Would some politician actually say what they want the military to be able to do in support of the UK's interests?

No - didn't think so.

90% of all our exports and imports are reliant on the sea. 100% of all army deployments are reliant on control of the sea.

The RN has, since 1940, been based on the carrier group yet the RAF want control of the VSTOL F35 squadrons destined for the two new carriers that Gordon is building by default to prop up the vote in Govan and West Fife and Ainsworth is talking about reducing the active Fleet further to 'save money'.

Go figure.....
Peter Thomson @ 4 weeks and 4 days ago
Left school at 14 without a qualification. That alone would disqualify him from even being a private in some regiments. Membership of some youth marxist organisation would prevent him from being his most junior subordinate. Yet Bob is the boss.
Paris Claims @ 4 weeks and 4 days ago
"Money spent on defence should be cut to the bare minimum and it should either be redirected to social needs or, where appropriate, towards intelligence gathering."

Thanks, Darrell, but Brown has already made sure that the money spent on defence has been cut to below the bare minimum- that's why our soldiers die in roadside bomb attacks in Afghanistan while the Americans arrive safely in Chinooks.
Having, as you would like to, cut spending further and spent the savings on "social needs" (ah, client votes) and "intelligence gathering", could you explain what your suggested reponse to the intelligence thus gathered? Prayer? Or begging for mercy? That's the thing about the Forces, Daniel: however much, as a good leftist, you despise them, they stop bad people from doing nasty things to nice people like you. 75 years ago people just like you insisted that the bad people would never actually do the nasty things people were warning about. They were wrong too.
Bill Lockhart @ 4 weeks and 4 days ago
@Thomas

Thanks for the comment. True, there does need to be the review that you rightly say I should have called for and like you say something needs to be done about this.
Darrell Goodliffe @ 4 weeks and 4 days ago
Poor old Bob, I can't think of anyone less suited to run the MOD, it shows Labour's commitment to the forces that they have had such a procession of complete buffoons running things.
Charlie Farley @ 4 weeks and 4 days ago
@Darren,
What this is missing is a call for a defence review and a re-assessment of our commitments.

Without this all suggestions on what to do next are as valid as a policy currently based on a pre-9/11 defence review.

You're right though. The world has changed, and we're trying to fight a few guys with some Kalashnikovs and a bad attitude with equipment designed to take on a few Russian shock assault battle groups with heavy armour. (The Eurofighter for instance, but that wasn't even designed to attack the tanks just other planes.)

Somebody, somewhere, thinks they can do this by reducing infantry strengths so they can afford the kit now not needed to take on the Soviets.

Unfortunately Bob and his predecessor the part time Defence Minister Des Browne do appear to have been utterly out of their depth.
Thomas Fairfax @ 4 weeks and 4 days ago