BNP steal Obama's design

Hazico 28,

"However- the rise of fascism in Europe is of great concern.

I wonder how this would all play out should the Tories win next year?"

I'm not sure if the juxtaposition of 'fascism in Europe' and 'the Tories winning next year' is intended to send a subtle message (if so, I think you are wrong).

However, the two key players in Europe for the foreseeable future are Mr Sarkozy and Ms Merkel and I think that we can safely say that Mr Cameron and Mr Hague have, for sure, burnt their bridges as far as Sarkozy and Merkel are concerned and their influence in Europe will be the cube root of bu**er-all, excuse my French, please.

Thanks Alex-

Someone commented on the local press blogs that they thought the "disaffected working class/Labour voters were moving to the BNP!" Others think the BNP have a right to "free speech."
My argument is free speech is great in theory- but not if inciting "racial hatred",(which I thought was a crime.)
I think so many are being misled into thinking this only about immigration- never mind the underlying ideology(or history for that matter.)

I hope that once the economy starts to improve, and there are real signs of recovery, fears and blame on scapegoats will lessen.

However- the rise of fascism in Europe is of great concern.

I wonder how this would all play out should the Tories win next year?

Thanks, Hazico. I used to live in Nottingham, and would hear racism sporadically too. It's a really horrible and worrying situation. You should have a chat with Ralph Baldwin in the comments about this; he's totally committed to defeating the BNP.

We live on the outskirts of Derby, and amazed how much bloggers in the local press voice support for the BNP.(the annual festival has also been hekd in Denby Derbys for about 3 years- and has caused absoloute chaos.)

The BBC (East Midlands) Politics Show has also reported racist attacks in Huthwaite, Nottinghamshire- not long after some BNP demonstration- reported.(See yesterday's edition on the BBC Derby or Politics Show web.)The consensus was between 2 policians that all parties should unite to defeat this party; also to expose the real truth of its ideology to the public.Apparently some believe only the initial "nice things" that the BNP present to people- like the cosy posters showing happy families etc.
At the last local election we were bombarded with these type of leaflets, as well as a loud haler parading up and down our street.These are aggressive tactics- and the posters highly misleading.We found it highly offensive.

As for Griffin posing next to Churchill- I find that a crime!!!
Someone needs to sue him!!

PS- Alex- I'd just like to say thanks so much for a brilliant site; it's the only one I look at regularly, and has a broad perspective of contributers and political news.(and on facebook- excellent!)

BNP steal their design

Labour steals BNP policies

What goes around comes around

Esquire D - I forgot to add the bit about the media up here preparing the ground that Willie Bain could loose to the SNP if there is an upsurge in BNP voting in Glasgow NE taking votes from Labour. On the other hand it is probably just more New Labour spin to cover Gordon's back if the 10,000+ Labour Glasgow NE majority goes pear shaped. I mean the BNP must be a threat in Glasgow NE given current vote share across Scotland which has SNP on 29%, Labour on 25% and the BNP on 0.05%...... My point is it just depends whose lies you want to listen to... Brown or Family Guy Griffin or Brown or........ in real terms, just who is stealing from whom?

It's not at all laughable. It clearly indicates the dangers of a politics based on emotion. What can be used for good in the hands of those who act in good faith and with the best of intentions can easily be turned to other objectives in the hands of those who would prefer to deny the multicultural worlds we live in.

Peter, why on earth are you going on about the Glasgow North East by-election in a thread about the BNP/Obama website?

Bizarre.

Ralph; Alex is doing his best to hold together some consensus that does not annoy the employees (Labour MP's etc.) too much.

We've had Brown canvassing in Glasgow, telling Glasgow how it is being ripped off because it did not get its toy train to the airport while avoiding the question of why the Scottish sepcial capital fund has had to be cut. No mention about the Labour cut to the Scottish budget in real terms of 2% per annum since May 2007 or the need to save £500 million from the 2010 - 11 budget because Darling wants to cut the Scottish budget further. While we are at it there is no mention of all the additional funding Glasgow has been getting for the Commonwealth Games or that Glasgow takes twice as much money from the CoSLA pot than any other city or town in Scotland at £1.1 billion last year or that Scottish Enterprise coughed up a £5 million grant to get Chase Manhattan Bank to set up in Glasgow.

Other than that, sure Brown must be right about Glasgow being 'ripped off' but maybe that's actually due to all the PFI builds Glasgow Council hoped that the new 2007 Labour/ Libdem Government in Scotland would cover for them?

A quick glance at the sourcecode of the BNP website tells you they are using buddy press ( http://buddypress.org ). This basic design must be common to thousands of sites on the web, so the idea that they "stole it from Obama" is laughable.

I've seen some weak posts on labourlist before, but I think with this one you scraped the barrel clean.

Sorry to argue this one with you Alex, it is not for you to defend them or in fact for anyone else to.

History I am sure will judge them in a manner they deserve.

I guess the sense of powerlessness in dealing with elected buffoons is a trying thing. I feel sorry for the Tories who are in for the same kind of trouble once Cameron and his circle of friends cash in. At least along with the majority of the public, and for the first time in my 35 years of life I will actually enjoy seeing people within my own party lose their seats.


Heavens above, who could have ever have predicted such stupidity and greed within the Labour Party?

In the meantime I will turn my attentions to the people who matter not the ones who dont.

Sorry for being so argumentative ;)

Yes Alex, the doorstep is the key, but in the meantime our efforts are being hindered and impeded by the idiots in the Cabinet. Collectively and consistently they fail us and let us down, each time making the task ten times harder. The worst part of course as I highlighted is their complete disregard and disdain for the damage that they do. I mean who in their right mind would consider suing their own party particularly this one that has poor as well as rich doners?

The very least I can do in the future is at some stage take that away from them that which they love the most...money.

And if I don't someone else will and possibly their liberty too.

As I've explained to Ralph and elsewhere, beating the BNP is both a campaigning issue, and also a policy issue. And of course, I agree that Obama doesn;t have all the answers and even if he did, you cannot diretly transpose them to the UK. Of course, you're always welcome to contribute a post if you'd like to...?

Again, you didn't really confront the issues at hand Alex - rather focus on perceived personal slights. I ensure you that my post wasn't directed solely at you.

And re the 'LabourList Ivory HQ' comment, it wasn't meant literally - you have mentioned before (for some reason) that LabourList is run out of your kitchen - but metaphorically. It is apart of the general malaise amongst the LabourList eligere that everything simply ought to be about Obama.

You answered the main thrust of the worthiness - or not - of this thread when you said that this isn't particularly groundbreaking or relevant to the very real threat of the BNP. Take the fact that they have used the Obama website format on the chin and move on.

And, as you rightly identify, the canvassing is everything. No subsititute for meeting people and listening to their concerns.

Yes I do. Thanks though for the reminder. Originally the anti Labour vote here in D and B was Liberal, that then collapsed into a BNP vote as the BNP were actually canvassing and also displayed (a twisted and distorted belief) but nontheless a concern for the country.

That is why people here identified with it.

I am afraid the people have very little choice as they did not want to vote for a party associated with expenses and they all were. In terms of D and B the BNP were the only real viable opposition available on the doorstep to votes as they would not vote Tory for the same reason they turned away from labour.

The collapse of the Labour vote in the Euro and Norwich North election is evidence of this.

They don't have to choose the BNP, Ralph. There are other parties. Remember the Martin Bell interview? He felt that the democratic cleft would mean more independent candidates would stand.

http://www.labourlist.org/the_martin_bell_interview_alex_smith_anthony_painter

Apologies Alex, but there will be a reckoning they may flee into the sunset after this General Election but I will ensure the public are compensated for having to choose the BNP.

I was!

Harriet has taken the mantle of "battling the BNP" after I warned her of the consequences of her stupidity and that of her colleagues.

She is waiting to take the credit for the hard work of others, waiting for the moment to stand in front of the camera. That is what has happened lazy stupid MP's taking credit from the work of the ordinary people.

Stealing ideas from others to fill the limitless vacuum that lies between their ears. Morons and unelites.

Even now at the brink before we start a general election campaign they stick stubbonly to their deeply flawed laurels.

They invite the BNP and think nothing of it as they have their money now.

I swear should I ever be elected to parliament I will find a way to make them pay for what they have done to Britain, all of them Labour, Conservative, none of them are fit to rule this country and to wound it deeply in the manner they have.

It will happen one way or the other and completly within the rules.

Hi Ralph,

You're right, of course, the reason that the BNP is making ground is that they are offering an alternative - albeit a nasty one - to some of our party's policies that have angered people. Expenses and the general disconnect between politicians and those who put them there, Europe and immigration are included in that list.

But no response to me Alex?

I didn't fly out on Daddy's money (he reads gas meters; not sure he's got any). I was living there. And I'm not preaching, I'm just trying to help us learn lessons. I've also constantly said these lessons are about ground campaigning, and I do that too.

But a lot of people who read blogs are either web-savvy campaign people, ground campaigners or both. So, no, while I don't think this is groundbreaking or supremely relevant to winning the fight against the BNP, I do think that this is of interest to a number of people.

Oh, and re: LL's ivory HQ. Really? I do this in my kitchen!

@Esquire,

Some of us are battling the BNP on the streets and you are dead right.

But you must realise that a glossy website can attract people and look professional.

Didn't really answer the concerns there, Alex.

Apart of the general arrogance and sheer smugness that really irks ordinary party members, like myself, is that we must now seemingly tolerant the likes of LabourList lovvies and the privileged few who for reasons as yet unknown thought that the US Presidency was in anyway their concern and flew out with Daddy's money to campaign - and then have the audacity to come home and preach about how Labour members simply don't know what we are doing.

The Left doesn't own the sole premise that only we can learn from the strengths of the Obama campaign. Frankly who cares whether or not the BNP website looks like the Obama one? I really don't think that the public at large will, but it is obviously the prize concern at LabourList Ivory HQ. Shouldn't Labour really be concentrating on fighting the BNP on our streets and in our cities, such as Manchester (in the northwest of England, Alex - not New Hampshire).

@Alex and Jessica

You see this is it. The comments we are hearing publically from Harman the brave warrior who has pledged to defeat the BNP is that the problems the present MPs have created will be dealt with by the next generation. Expenses ect will be a legacy and no natural justice shall occur as they mooney off on their ill gotton gains.

The public will be furious.

One committee to the next with no real action taken that is not piece meal and patronizing to the public.

The door now for our opponents is wide open and our leadership of unelites and equally pathetic successors are not up to the task of defeating them as they have absolutely nothing in common with the public, maybe Jessica they are too busy getting angry at posters to see the real dangers facing the peace in Europe, the danger of a European dictatorship and unaccountability far worse than Parliament, and far worse the idea of a political elite who are in effect just crap egomaniacs.

@Jessica,

Yes Jessica you stated to me that people like Blears were not all that evil. Your right they are not but are politically incompetant and reckless with no grasp at all of the consequence of their actions, like mad, insane children testing the boundaries of what they can get away with constantly.

We need grown ups in Parliament who understand democracy not morons across the political spectrum.

I rather thought we agreed on the Palestinian topic too!

@Jessica,

Yes the feeling of nausea is natural. I puked just after the 30 hours of endlessly trying to convinceLabour MP's to do the right thing on their expenses as my nightmare was being realised. Imagine that my own people in the Labour Party making me puke as I realised what Nick Griffin would gain as a result of the stupidity.

Charie,

I knew we would agree on something today!

That Churchill was speaking out against far right politics long before WW2 despite many of his peers thinking Hitler was 'good for Germany' and given his history as a liberal prior to re-joining the Torys, I think the old boy would want to thrash Nick Griffin for using his image!

But my own misty eyes are based on the content, not the presentation!

I'm not sure how too dissimilar this is with the almost messanic desire by some within the Labour party - and your misty eyed article the other day was an example - to adopt wholesale absolutely everything from the Obama campaign, even if it rides roughshod over established Labour party procedures and norms, or even if it is simply totally unsuitable for British politiecs. Witness the oh-so-arrogant assumption that primaries are "inevitable" (a term genuinely used by Will Straw).

Are you suggesting that only the likes of LabourList are allowed to learn from the Obama campaign Alex?

That is truly disgusting. I feel sick.

There are many things to criticise the BNP over, not sure their choice of software is one of them. I would be more upset them using fighter of fascism Churchill as their mascot.

Very clever, in the same manner in which Nick Griffin watched Blair and copied the use of legal "language" to articulate his language.