By Laurie Penny
Part of what's so damn embarrassing for the British Left about this whole fiasco is that it's a non-event, politically speaking: professional smearers in smearing each other shocker. It's refreshing that LabourList's editor has seen fit to publicly apologise. On BBC Radio Scotland today I suggested that, for the good of this site and for the good of the Labour Party, Mr Draper needs to step back from editing LabourList and let some of the young guns who've been doing the bulk of the legwork take a more prominent role (I'm not one of them, by the way, I'm just a hanger-on).
What 'smeargate' demonstrates, depressingly, is that Labour's top strategists don't have any better ideas than going through the Tories' dustbins. Unless New Labour been taken over by nappy-eating urban foxes, I think it needs to start offering something better double-sharpish, because as far as I can recall nobody ever won an election under the slogan 'not the other guy'.
It's unfortunate for the Labour party that the blogging revolution has occured during its political tenure, but that's the way it is, and good as the internet is for facilitating nihilistic, bile-ridden smear campaigns like Guido's, it was a serious error for McBride, Draper and their associates to even begin to think that they could work the same magic from within the Westminster bubble. That's just not how the blogosphere works. Ask anyone under thirty.
Where Draper et al went wrongest of all is in trying to emulate Guido in the first place. Paul Staines, in case you hadn't noticed, is a frothing right-wing anti-political arserag, a misogynist, a suspicious white stain on the face of the blogosphere. It's thoroughly shameful that the editor of this site has developed such a schoolboy obsession with his thoroughly mediocre work. All a tussle with anti-political sleaze-machines like Guido was ever going to be was a race to the gutter - a race to the gutter which Guido has won. Well done, Guido.
What breaks my heart about all this is that there are alternative left voices out there, and alternative Labour voices too - plenty of them. The political blogosphere is, in fact, far more than a sleazy sideshow of arrogant white middle-aged men screeching like apes, rolling about in their own faeces and wanking angrily at each other. In fact, the internet is riddled with genuinely progressive voices, and the best of them have understood exactly what Guido understands - that you can't be a citizen journalist and a member of the political establishment at the same time. Blogging can inform politics, but it is not politics, and it cannot be done from Whitehall.
Sunny Hundal has some of the best commentary I've seen on the whole shambles, over at Liberal Conspiracy:
If you’re pissed off by this whole episode - and everyone involved - then it’s obvious what the task ahead is. There’s no point complaining about it. If we want the left to succeed and not be killed off by the libertarians, Conservatives or New Labour, then we have to do it ourselves. Otherwise the likes of Derek Draper and Guido Fawkes will end up dominating the conversations.
Today, I am ashamed of the British left, on and off the web. But I believe we can do better than this. I believe that - as long as certain almost universally male comrades learn to share the platform, drop their pointless schoolboy obsessions, understand that smears and violence acheive nothing, and grow the hell up sharpish - we can be better than this, and we can come up with new political narratives that actually matter to the people on the ground. Who's with me?
***
And by the way, for those of you who know what I'm talking about: it's come to my attention that there's already Guido/Dolly slash out there on the internet. I definitely had nothing to do with it.
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I believe your assessment that this whole fiasco is a non-event is rather understated; the recent events have not only tarnished the reputations of McBride and Draper, they have also tarnished the reputation of Gordon Brown and the Labour Party as a whole. When he became Prime Minister, Brown said in his leadership acceptance speech "and we will renew people's trust in government". By accepting council from people like McBride and Draper who demean politics in such a way, Brown has undermined his stated intention and inadvertently implicated himself in what has occurred.
McBride was earning a salary which was paid for by the taxes that we the people are obliged to give to the government in order to run this country on our behalf. The belief that smearing a political opponent by reference to an STD or the suggestion that the wife of a political opponent is suffering from mental problems, exposes a character trait which is evil most pure. If Brown or any of the other people who are employed at 10 Downing Street had any inclination towards common decency, McBride would have been sacked on the spot.
In the good old days, Harold Wilson once said "This party is a moral crusade or it is nothing". If the spineless Brown cannot bring himself to apologise publicly for the excrement that has dribbled out of his office, he is confirming that the moral crusade no longer exists and that he sits firmly on the "nothing" side of the Labour political divide.
I note that you stated on the radio that Draper is also "a suspicious white stain on the face of the political blogosphere" and although I agree with you in Draper's case, I don't feel compelled to agree that the person who brought this matter to public attention deserves to be tarred with the same brush.
When Draper gushes "absolutely totally brilliant" in response to McBride’s smear suggestions, it speaks volumes about the type of person he is. Your comment about Draper on the radio, where you state that he "believes little other than the Labour Party should be in power and he should be involved in it" was spot on. Draper has been, and still is, damaged goods - no more, no less. If he doesn't posses the moral dignity to resign as editor of LabourList or if you and your comrades that are involved in this site do not have the gumption to tell him to go and never return to darken the pages of the web with his self-serving bile, then your complicit hypocrisy will speak louder than any of the words written on this site.
Finally, I don't believe that it is you who should be ashamed; the perpetrators of this heinous business and the people that support them should bear that responsibility. Angry, yes, but not ashamed.
And we are being let down. By the adoption of policies that are as destructive as they are electorally ignorant; By the posturing towards the right of politics for the gain of short lived headlines in the Daily Mail; By the cowardly behaviour of those whose sole job it is to report back to our NEC the feelings of the party but consistently refuse to do so in fear of the response; By those whose response they fear who cannot understand the thinking and feelings of grass roots activists because they are not just not of them, but proudly so. We are being let down.
Well, this is my Labour Party too. I refuse to leave just because a few morons can't keep their school boy antics in check. I refuse to be drummed out and lose the chance of helping the party I love to re-find its way, and reconnect its roots to the future.
I've always been a believer in strong political leadership. I supported the changes to the party structure that allowed Labour to modernise, and I don't want to return to the early 1980s.
But strong leadership is real leadership. Not following where the Daily Mail will take you and hoping enough tribal party members will support you come what may. Strong leadership is not employing a strategist with an ounce of strategic thinking ability. One with a notion of positive politics and how to inspire. One who understands what people want, not just what they fear.
I don't want to see the next Labour leader in hock to a party gone wild any more than I want to see my party dragged along by a leader who has lost touch with their party. There have to be better avenues of communication that don't leave us constantly feeling like it's "us and them".
I'm not Militant and I never will be, I believe in democratic Socialism, and understand the necessity of compromise in party and in government I will happily work towards a compromise on the provision of public services, as long as they remain of excellent quality and free at the point of use. I'm not New Labour, I believe in democratic Socialism, and understand the necessity of internal debate and won't acquiesce for media advantage on nuclear weapons, on Heathrow, on Inheritance Tax.
I know that as a long term member of a political party that my list will differ from others. I think I have a case to make and I will continue to make it within the party. And I will now stand up and say "Enough" to those who are cheapening and making tawdry the party I love. Then I'll deliver my leaflets, knock on doors and work for the party as a whole and for the majority of us who understand what we do it for.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/alice_miles/article6094124.ece
Special congratulations that she responds.
Unlike most writers of blog articles on this site, she doesn't just shoot crap and leave.
Any element of "What about the Tory blogosphere?" in Labour reactions to smeargate merely reinforces the impression of Labour as obsessed with spin. Please let's stop it. It's not helpful.
I'm sorry Derek's return has come to this - it could have been so much better. But he has to resign as editor of this site now, doesn't he, if it's to relaunch successfully and gain credibility?
Nobody, by the looks of it.
Er. What "smear campaign" by Guido?
Don't shoot the messenger, darling. Stick the kettle on love. Have a nice cup of tea and don't EVER tell me what the Blogosphere is for. You do not own or control it. Get used to it.
The least you could do is put a nice red cross against it.
(Hope you had a happy Easter.)
I think they can make up their own mind about his mental state.
It's not surprising that many agree with each other - this is what happens when you shaft the electorate to reward your banker chums at the expense of £30,000 debt for each unborn child.
You would appear to require the services of a qualified Psychotherapist.
You are a member of the labour party - a spintastic, self-serving association of parasites whose own merits couldn't get them a job in the private sector if they tried.
While labour have to make up lies about the right, the right just have to tell the truth about the left...
I can understand you hating Staines - doncha hate it when you get pwned ?
The idea of someone logging on to 'the net' type "The guy just belongs in mental hospital like all the other kooks and bottom feeders on the net" is beyond irony.
If Guido is making any money it is most certainly not from taxpayer funds - unlike McBride and Co and all those other deceiving cheating lying MP's.
Please tell me also who are those kooks and bottom feeders that belong in a mental hospital - tell me, where from your plinth do you stand (or feed) and where do you belong? Before you pass judgement 'on everyone' pass judgement on yourself.
I'm an ordinary Joe, but you Sir, appear to be an idiot!
You'll have a lot of fun reading his views, however don't try to reason with him - he doesn't 'do' debate.
Teasing and ridicule seem to provide the best results.
Max, you're wasted here!
It IS important, sorry to be dull but we were promised something a little bit better from NewLabour, whiter-than-white I think it was called and what kind of human-being writes a 'letter of regret' and then issues as press release saying it most definitely wasn't an apology? I remember the old days when Labour at least could do the PR stuff and not look like liars/crooks/the nasty party at every turn.
Has anyone else thought DD might be a Tory? It takes a special something to make Labour look even worse than they did just a week ago.
Please tell me he didn't actually do that. Not even Brown could that much of an anal sociopath.
You feather your own misandry several ways, but the worst is labelling someone a misogynist (please provide proof) and then having the gaul to paint yourself as someone who should be followed by asking who's with me?
You are either deluded, aloof or both. You are a misandrist by your own admission, but in your terms it's perfectly acceptable to be a misandrist but not a misogynist.
Pot, kettle etc!!
No, I don't think anyone is 'with you', quite the opposite I'd wager. If you think your misandrist meanderings is what LabourList needs, when you complain about DD and others and their sick blogs, then not only are you deluded and aloof, you are a hypocrite.
Hypocrisy as you should know is "the practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; in other words, falseness."
In other words, this is all a play act for you and this, like DD is not what LL needs right now. Purile, childish ranting like yours is not going to garner Labour Support, which correct me if I'm wrong is what this site was originally intended for. Your accusations against other bloggers are simply accusations against yourself.
Childish, purile nonesense.
Like saying they are white would be unnecessary.
Or short.
Or fat.
It's something you chose to highlight for no good reason. Other than your own misandry.
Misandry for its own sake (and you can barely manage a sentence without it) is as bad as misogyny and racism, do I have to explain this stuff? Seriously?
Anyway, nice to see someone at LL actually reading the comments to their articles.
As for Guido's blog - I think it’s a case of you trying to shoot the messenger. If the current administration and parliament in general wasn't providing him with such a rich seam of anger inducing behaviour to report his blog would be empty. Let face it - he hasn't reported a falsehood here has he.
And before you dismiss me as "..a frothing right-wing anti-political arserag.." or an "arrogant white middle-aged men screeching like apes, rolling about in their own faeces and wanking angrily at each other..." (nice, just what reasoned political debate needs) I will point out that I am a life long labour voter (I did vote liberal once but just to keep the Tory out). Next time I don't think I'm going to bother. Especially if you and your posted rant represent the future I will be getting.
John Smith will be rolling in his grave.
And you've missed the point of the story, because this could be a seminal moment in British political history- the week that saw the end of spin, because it must be apparent to anyone with half a brain and internet access that they too can outflank the spinmeisters and see for themselves what is really going on.
Put your toys back in the pram and grow up.
If you want to give it out, learn to take it.
That explains a lot.
"I don't hate my boyfriend, my father, my best friend or my housemates for being male"
There you go. Unlucky Celia, you'll have to settle for the boy Miller.
Tom? Interested? ;-)
(Click on "show trash comments" to see it)
This article is sexist trash more suitable for Guido's blog than this one. You completely forget about Jo Moore's 'Good day to bury bad news'.
Face it, one of Gordon Brown's lieutenant's is a very, very nasty person indeed ably assisted and abetted by some other weak-minded individuals.
Laurie, if this is a case of 'not in my name' take it up with the originator because your nasty diatribe is definitely a case of shooting the messenger.
Carry on the way you are going you'd make an excellent female McBride.
He 'regrets' the whole affair...
Yeah. I 'regret' all the deaths in the First Word War, for which I bear no responsibility whatsoever.
He 'knew nothing about these emails'...
I'm quite certain he took great care not to know anything about 'these emails'. Did he also know nothing at all about the overall strategy? Did he ever hear anything about Red Rag? What - nothing at all? Then why has he so carefully avoided saying so? It's not difficult - look: "I knew nothing whatsoever about any of this project - nothing at all." See. I just did it.
He has demanded that the rules be 'made clear'.
Yeah. Good thinking. At the moment they're really obscure.
One classy guy.
Guido is anti-political, in that he seeks out untruths and sleaze in politics on all sides. Isn't that a good thing? Just because he's found and reported on more of that in a Labour government is obviously because an incumbent government is in power and therefore makes the rules and is larger in numbers than the opposition so the opportunities for criticism are greater.
That said, you are right in that any left-of-centre voice has to be formed and grow organically and not be a pawn of No10. If you have a good story to tell, or have new, fresh ideas, then people will listen. If you regurgitate the dogma of a tired, bankrupt government then you will be ignored. Its that simple.
Does the left have a new, fresh idea, a new direction?
I hope so, because right now, the social democrats we have in government have bled the country dry. 52% of the country is reliant on the state and that percentage will grow as more and more pile onto the dole queues. I'm seeing it myself, as I'm one of those queueing up, without a job.
As a floating voter, what I want to hear right now is some concrete proposals from the left on how they reduce that 52% figure to something more sustainable, how they get me back into work and how they are going to do all of that without selling the souls (ok, devouring the unpaid tax) of my children to already-rich bankers.
I'm sure the left does have ideas: lets hear them, unfettered from the control-freaks in government.
Welsh & Scottish Labour at it as well
Well done Gordon.
Brown has written to the people hurt by this affair - and even after that up pops Mrs Dorries TWICE more on the radio (and I haven't been listening all night - once on LBC London and at 0530 this morning on Radio 4s News Briefing) to say it's "not ernough". What would be enough to satisfy her lust for revenge? 40 lashes in public in Parliament Square?
I rather feel the Tories are overplaying their hand - people will soon wake up to the fact that thousands of them are losing their jobs, their homes (and yes, Mrs Dorries THEIR "careers") the Tories pretend they care about this, but all they can keep going on about is this tawdry affair. Anybody with any generosity of spirit would accept that you can';t undo what is done, and would accept that their opponents have admitted in very full terms their mistake and regret it. That's what I would do.
Believe me, as the internet becomes increasingly important in politics these sorts of things, distasteful as they are will continue (just look at American sites if you don't believe me) Laurie, you and everyone here must know that the Tories would attempt the same sort of thing if they were in a hole.
Indeed, the Tories are playing into the hands of those people who feel they don't really have any answers to our current difficulties, and therefore use any device to forget about talking about policy and just obsess about their opponents. Four days of "outrage" begins to look rather bogus. Non-stop anger is pointless and destructive.
Laurie, I too, am disgusted by the Left at the moment - not over this affair, but the way so many of the PLP have been prepared to roll over and be hoodwinked by New labour's right wingers - only 30 Labour MPs for example, could be bothered to oppose the Purnell/Freud (Sir David, the Tory peer)disgraceful welfare reform bill a fortnight ago, measures which Mrs thatcher never even contemplated - making the ill and disabled look for work at a time when we have 3 million unemployed.
It is now time to put this sorry affair behind us, and for the Tories to stop acting like an outraged Mother Superior.
If you live in London listen to LBC where you have right-wing commentators from the press (as I write Peter Oborne of the Daily Mail) being invited in by pro-Tory presenters to say their piece. Surely after the past three and a half days EVERYONE has said their piece and that shojuld be an end to it.
It wasz wrong. I don't condone it, I doubt that anyone does, but frankly, the attacks both on this site and on LBC are decending into bullying.
Personally, I blame the individual who has been in charge of the UK economy for over a decade for this. The tories are culpable for not objecting to Mr Brown's grand plan to base the UK economy on banking, but they're not in the same league re: causing this mess. Mr Cameron's central role in the last Black Wednesday is a big problem - it has hampered revealing Mr Brown's central role in the whole disaster.
Mr Brown's 2006 Mansion House speech: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2006/jun/22/politics.economicpolicy
"People talk of China as the future manufacturing workshop of the world, they call India the future office of the world - I believe that London, like New York, is already the capital marketplace of the world.
And I do not believe this has happened by accident."
ALL I am saying is that the Tories are really playing the victim to the extent that it is now getting a bore to keep hearing them demanding an apology...then another.... and Mrs Dorries going on about her career as if nobody else mattered. You have to have a thick skin in politics: if the Tory front bench are such shrinking violets perhaps they should get out of one of the most back-stabbing professions there is.
Why not get your facts right *before* making an arse of yourself, eh?
"Paul Staines, in case you hadn't noticed, is a frothing right-wing anti-political arserag, a misogynist, a suspicious white stain on the face of the blogosphere" Er no hes the individual that has shamed and embarrassed the whole Labour party by exposing the level that the Labour party will stoop to win the next election.
You seem to have been around this project for a while Laurie, at any time did you raise your concerns to Dolly, no thought not. You waited till the horse had bolted, how courageous.
And this little throwaway line "arrogant white middle-aged men screeching like apes, rolling about in their own faeces and wanking angrily at each other" says volumes about you and your ilk, and its not pleasant.
Is there a psychoanalyst in the house?
I hope today will see the last word on this saga and allow us to dedicate ourselves to the real opportunity that LabourList and sites like it offer our tribe. Namely, an informed, controlled, articulation of the arguments facing us all as we career towards the next election.
I know I am not alone on these pages in having fought and lost and then fought and won local, European and General Elections - many in our party perhaps are too young or choose to forget that we were only brought back from the political abyss a little over a decade ago because we were able to articulate the politics of hope, stand taller than the sleaze, rise above the petty bickering and Westminster village sideshow that had lead to such disillusion amongst the electorate (near single digit turnouts in some votes) and, most importantly, found a way to tell our story in a credible, passionate and relevant way to those critical swing voters through media that wasn't obsessed with the utterances of the political class and their aspirant young followers. The web is the new local paper - focused, vocal, targeted and accessible to all.
Let us wipe the slate, engage in the conversations that really matter and embrace this vital tool to win the next election.
As a conservative (please note the small c), I am disappointed at the intellectual direction the left has taken in recent years. The optimism of Blair and the Third Way project seems like a distant memory to those, such as me, who thought New Labour would somehow be different.
In a somewhat bizarre way, the next election might be a good one to loose for the Labour Party and a defeat might just bring about the motivation for intellectual renewal that is so desperately needed. When I look at the Cabinet under Brown, I do not see people of principle…I regrettably see people desperately clinging onto power and who will seemingly do anything they can to retain it.
It took the Conservative Party three election defeats and as many leaders to recognise that it had to change if it ever wished to win election again. I do not think it will take the Labour Party so long, but, like the Conservatives, it does need some time away from power to think about what it stands for these days.
I look forward to the days when we have an intellectual credible Labour Party competing with a rejuvenated Conservative Party on ideas not smears. British politics will be the winner.
I felt constantly turned off as a labour activist not just by a genuine negative attitude to the opposition which is ubiquitous but by this kind of theme...militant feminism, and how many times did you say 'white'?
I think those who aren't labour by birth will always be turned off by this kind of thing. Its like a cross between Harman and McNulty.
I said white a few times, and I said 'male' a few times, because, guess what? The people doing this are white and male. If they were, for example, female, that would be picked up on by everyone. But because they're part of a privleged group and are excercising that privilege in order to behave like schoolboys, I'm not supposed to even mention it? Christ.
No it wouldn't, it would, however, be used by you as a reason to dismiss criticism. Christ indeed.
New Labour has created a climate of extreme PC crapness.
I prefer the term 'equality-aware' over 'politically correct'. It's more accurate.
* Black, women, gay, choose your own prejudice.
Simple, really.
I think you miss the point. It is an event, politically speaking. If you don't get it, you don't get the internet. It ain't top down, and you can't plot it on the grid. It's organic, chaotic, undirected, real, visceral, and at the moment, there's a huge tide of real people who are really pissed off with Labour who are blogging, commenting, linking, and learning. You'll have ten years in opposition to learn this. Your only succour will be that it's going to be as vicious and as vacuous the other way round when pretty boy Dave inevitably gets in, whenever Gordon capitulates.
Guido is something that Staines does for his own amusement and Labour have tried to engage him like he's part of the political/media establishment. The reason Draper's ideas have had a tendency to backfire is that they're so obviously engineered and it shows that one guy with a website can get the entire government spin machine playing catch-up.
Besides, the guy has no reputation to protect, no boss to sack him and no need to win an election so he doesn't have to play by the normal rules - same goes for most blogs.
It infuriates me. And actually, thank you for reminding me. I should write a whole piece about this. I'm choosing to ignore your last, ableist comment.
The question is, why, rather than dealing with politics in a mature, responsible and and rational manner, does Brown lock himself in his bunker and surround himself with sociopathic attack dogs like Watson and McBride? (and yappy poodles like Dolly)
I don't think that's the real question most of us are asking ourselves. IMO, the real question is "does this latest screw up reach higher than disposable members of the Labour bureaucracy, and how is it that Gordon Brown has still not been asked to justify his appointment of a SpAd who clearly thought nothing of the defined and published rules regarding his tenure?". The issue about getting hold of the emails is easy - if ever they are published in electronic form it's the work of moments for a Government agency to work through the list of IPs to understand who forwarded what to whom. The chances of the email account being hacked are vanishingly small. My googlemail account may easily be hacked, but a secure .gov.gsi account is not in the same category. I look forward to that digital baby Derek Draper attempting to convince a frankly sceptical public that "dark forces" are at work when frankly there's an obvious answer - one of the cc addressees did it.
Ummm. Surely that's not the way that we run our democracy? If someone makes an allegation, then the onus is on them to prove it. If you want a country where someone can make an allegation and then require that the other party prove that it is not true, then you and I had better live in different countries, chum. I'll live in 2009 Britain, why don't you flee to 1930's-1950's Soviet Russia?
The Tories certainly have a big mouth. They make huge positive claims for themselves and huge negative claims for Labour. But are they competent to deliver and does it stack up? As weakened as Labour is I'm still circumspect about the Tory product.
Any fool can make claims but when they get inside the doorthey have to deliver. I'd rather see a demonstration from the Tories of their competence and caring but I'm not seeing it. They have nothing to road test and I don't buy vapourware.
In much the same way as when people slag this site off in its entirety, I get equally irritated when people slag off order-order.com in a very generalised and stereotypical way.
You say he is anti-political and a nihilist. On the former - is that because he dishes it out to all parties? Doesn't that actually make him more politically balanced than most bloggers? On the latter - is that because Hazel Blears said so? Well who made her an authority on a philosophical doctrine she clearly (or you) do not really quite understand - or if I am wrong, please point me towards his blogposts where he drones on about life having no meaning, purpose or intrinsic value.
And in what context is Guido a "sleaze machine"? Because he uncovers it? I think you are confusing his stories with him.
Mysogenistic - again, the evidence for which is......what? The comments on his site? But that's not him is it?
Thoroughly mediocre - that's a subjective measure of quality. Personally, for what Guido sets out to do, I think he is very good at it. Of course there are some articles on there that are cheap, boring and nasty, but in amongst all that there are some real nuggets he has uncovered and - something this site could learn from - he uses humour to good effect. To write him off as a total gutter-merchant slimeball is to underestimate and undersell him.
Guido, you're a disgusting fascist arserag. I'm not proud of what Derek's done here, but you're no better. Shame on you, and shame on Derek for wanting to emulate you.
This is why women should be running the political blogosphere.
- Sexist, bilious and deluded.
Gordon Brown has turned his vicious spin machine away from attacking Blair, to attacking Labour's political opponents.
Labour are smearing people all over the country:
http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2009/04/red-rags-of-cardiff-edinburgh.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/borisjohnson/5149462/The-night-in-Beijing-when-I-saw-Damian-McBrides-true-colours.html
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/daniel_hannan/blog/2009/04/13/damian_mcbride_and_derek_draper_i_suspect_i_was_one_of_their_targets
The way this argument is going you would think Bernard Ingham, had never existed, and that the Tories had never indulged in dirty tricks.
In politics today as Caroline Spellman (Conservative) and Tony McNulty (Labour) would tell you, it is what you can get away with. Not nice, but true.
Any Tesco Clubcard carrying individual could tell you that.
Think about it, Brown spent his time as Chancellor destabilising Blair. Any wonder that Labour didn't deliver on its promise when the man with the money kept putting the boot in?
Brown continues to attack and smear anyone that doesn't bow down before him.
Brown is the poison that Labour needs to suck out.
P.S. Yes I did sign up and join the Conservatives. I did so when the government tried to force 42 days detention without charge on us. People need to stand up to this government - you could start today Charles.........
Correction, as proved over the weekend
"All a tussle with anti-political sleaze machine like Guido"
There. That is far closer to reality.
Author. You are the bastard son of Dolly Draper, and I claim my five pounds.
Now. Back to bed with you and behave.
To conclude. To late mate. You're done for. So says this former Labour voter for 32 years. LabourList. Fit to wipe your arse with.
Where was your critisicm over the last few months?
You'll go far in the labour party.
McBride might have a good Cambridge degree and Staines might have had a career in the City, but there is an element of collosal stupidity in the communal make-up. Exactly what do McBride, Draper, Staines and the rest, all sitting pretty on rather generous salaries, have in common with any people those who subscribe to the forum. Nothing.
Yet, I would bet my bottom dollar that if push came to shove, 99% of this website's subscribers would retreat into the 'my party right or wrong' schtick and engage in similar, tho' perhaps less brutal, behaviour. For that, apparently, is what drives politics in Britain: ourright hatred of the other side. Just listen to some who still today will rant and rave about Thatcher. Or, on the other side of the fence, there are still sufficient numbers of chinless, moneyed wonders who will sneer at 'the lower classes', despite the fact that not a generation or two ago, their parents or grandparents were one of 'the lower classes'.
Laurie Piper states: . . .'we can be better than this, and we can come up with new political narratives that actually matter to the people on the ground. Who's with me?' Well, Laurie, I would be, except that I am not 'of the Left'. But nor am I 'of the Right'. Laurie might have hitched her wagon to 'the Left' - although these days it would be hard to define what 'the Left' is - but I suspect that she and I are in the same boat: we are terminally pissed off with the stale, sterile, self-centred posturing which passes for politics in Britain. She might be aghast to hear that for 14 months I was a member of my local Conservative Association and even got as far as getting myself onto the approved list of candidates and put myself forward as a potetential constituency candidate. I had not hope because the crustier members had already marked me down as something of a pinko, and anyway in my heart I knew I was not 'a Conservative' or 'a Tory' and I still am not. What finally drove me away was the sheer lack of interest in politics, in any discussion. It was purely tribal, but before readers sneer and say 'what did you expect' Labour, whether New or not, suffers from exactly the same malaise.
Yes, Laurie, I am with you, but not coming from the Left. But what do we do next?
The people smeared were Mr and Mrs Cameron, Mr and Mrs Osborne, among others. Is it not a smear to describe them as professional smearers?
"It's unfortunate for the Labour party that the blogging revolution has occured during its political tenure"
Why?
"...understand that smears and violence acheive nothing"
and:
"Paul Staines, in case you hadn't noticed, is a frothing right-wing anti-political arserag, a misogynist, a suspicious white stain on the face of the blogosphere"
Perhaps you should reflect on your post. You seem like the foul mouthed individuals you attempt to criticise.
Perhaps after paying for your private education your parents didn't have enough left for finishing school?
Then you say....
Paul Staines, in case you hadn't noticed, is a frothing right-wing anti-political arserag, a misogynist, a suspicious white stain on the face of the blogosphere....
Then you say....
The political blogosphere is, in fact, far more than a sleazy sideshow of arrogant white middle-aged men screeching like apes, rolling about in their own faeces and wanking angrily at each other.
Then you say....
... as long as certain almost universally male comrades learn to share the platform, drop their pointless schoolboy obsessions, understand that smears and violence acheive nothing, and grow the hell up sharpish - we can be better than this, and we can come up with new political narratives that actually matter to the people on the ground. Who's with me?
Exactly what part of “grow the hell up sharpish – we can do better then this” is that you don’t understand? And your contribution to Bitchy smear campaigns are not what the blogosphere is for is what exactly?
Lady, why don’t you grow a pair and grow up.
Why must the party keep treating the electorate as fools? As a (supposedly) centre-left party, we are jeopardising the little moral highground we have to fight the election against the neoliberal Tories.
The last thing we needed was to give people an opportunity to sympathize with the Bullingdon Club? McBride should be shot.
"Paul Staines, in case you hadn't noticed, is a frothing right-wing anti-political arserag, a misogynist, a suspicious white stain on the face of the blogosphere." says Laurie.
"The political blogosphere is, in fact, far more than a sleazy sideshow of arrogant white middle-aged men screeching like apes, rolling about in their own faeces and wanking angrily at each other." she adds.
Then she says "understand that smears and violence acheive nothing, and grow the hell up sharpish - we can be better than this,"
Laurie - bearing in kind this article is called "Bitchy smear campaigns are not what the blogosphere is for - LabourList must do better", did you actually read what you wrote before you pressed SEND? If so, surely you are no better than the people you berate?
I have tended to agree with your previous posts (the Jacqui Smith database article for example), admire the fact you are active on here and respond to posters and I have to agree with the overall point of your article. Unfortunately by berating Paul Staines in the way that you did, detracted from the entire piece.
Honest opinion? Only my opinion, but on first read it came across as a straight out of university, man hating feminist. Which was why I read it twice. On second read I got the impression you were angry - bloody angry - about what's gone on over the last few days. Yes?
You may not agree with Paul but I think your anger should be directed at McBride and Draper - and maybe even Brown for employing them both. I get the impression they thought they could control the Internet and take him on at his own game. BIG mistake.
You may not like him or his methods or views, but he is good at what he does. Reading his blog you could tell he was up to something and the way he released things over a couple of days, to allow Draper to drop himself even deeper in it, was a master stroke.
As far as I am concerned the only way you are going to "win" is to take the higher ground, and leave the the slagging off to others.
A double edged sword though as it was good to have someone who cared enough about their party and the site to get angry. Draper only seems to get angry when he gets caught out or someone disagrees with him - I still think your anger should be directed at him and McBride though.
I can hear the sound of a million new blogs opening as people realise they don't have to rely on the "controllable and licenced" MSM and BBC Pravda any more. They can say what they damn well like and read what they damn well like.
No wonder the political classes are bricking it. "Democracy" and "Free Speech" mustn't be allowed for people who aren't qualified eh?
The Guido-Draper thing has been running for weeks. It is striking that it is only when your man loses in one of the greatest and most hilarious defeats of all time in any sphere of human activity that you decide that this is only a game for babies anyhow and your man wasn't really trying. You must try harder in future.
"Mike Smithson (born May 11th 1946) is a writer, a Liberal Democratic politician and expert on betting on politics who in 2004 founded the website politicalbetting.com. Since January 2008 he has been the full-time editor of the site."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Smithson_(politics)
Couldn't agree more. We shouldn't be attempting to engage with this. Those in opposition have the luxury of being able to attack on any level - they've been in opposition for so long that's why they're good at it (and I'm not buying Tory faux shock and repugnance for one moment). This completely embarrassing episode has allowed focus to shift away from Tory lack of policy. This is where discourse needs to be located - on a serious level, talking about what the Labour has to offer to the country. At the moment public perception of Labour is probably pretty low. Lets reclaim the debate by talking about what's relevant rather than what's not.
Isnt this called "defamation of character"?
You have a good lawyer right?
The core of your argument is sound but you have in this post erred in exactly the way that you criticise others of doing: it is a self-perpetuating cycle.
On the plus side, I think you will find that DD will indeed be totally sidelined during the next week or so, which should enable some sort of progress to start regarding this abysmally designed and lacking in focus site. Or maybe it will just be binned: it is not as if it is really needed given the umpteen decent socialist-perspective blogs etc already in existence.
I just want something interesting to read on a site that doesn't dig my eyes out with spoons every time I read it. Draper should get a decent editor in and use his star quality to bring in the readers.
:-)
Having said that, it is completely bizarre to blame Guido Fawkes for this. If Draper and his mate had not embarked on this disgraceful course of action there would not have been any gutter revelations for Guido to post.
Complete openness is the only way to ensure that things like this can not fester.
Every apology and partial apology I have seen has effectively said Guido/the Tories/anyone else are doing the same thing. Who cares - set an example and do soemthing different.
Unfortunately this way of operating has been endemic in the New Labour ethos since Blair/Mandelson took over New Labour. Brown was going to leave it behind but in the end needed not only McBride, but Mandelson and Campbell as well.
I just wonder what Brown has offered to Blair in exchange for the help of his henchmen - support for his ambition to become the first unelected President of the EU perhaps!
What is missing from all this of course is what policies labour will be using at the next election to make me vote for it, not that I'd actually bother.
This is another fine mess MR Brown, and they are getting sillier all the time. And if you did not know about these emails then why not, because these people worked directly for you mate.