By Gabe Trodd
'Yesterday marked the British blogosphere's first big political scalp, and the day political new media in the UK came of age,’ writes Gaby Hinsliff in the Observer. Rather than any coming of age for UK political blogging - it’s crunch time for UK politics and its relationship with new social media. It’s time for the left-wing, the progressives, the young and the liberals to reclaim the UK’s political blogosphere with backbone, inclusivity, substance and vitality – this needs to happen now.
Without question, the USA deserves to bask in the success and implications of Obama’s grassroots, bottom-up campaigning – Obama and Blue State Digital have embraced the network potential of Web 2.0 with achingly fasionable messages of inclusivity, accessibility and hope (read the Change We Need: What Britain Can Learn from Obama’s Victory by the Fabians). The Huffington Post, meanwhile, is a trailblazer for modern investigative journalism and the direction of new social media.
But the UK isn’t learning and much of the current political blogging is a red herring. It’s obscene and bewildering that the most notable aspects of the UK’s current political blogosphere/online campaigning are to community cohesion and grassroots campaigning, what the early auditions of the X Factor are to virtuosity in the UK’s music industry: puerile, calamitous and self-glorifying exhibitions of desperation and immaturity. Scoffing, pinstriped city boys to the UK’s economic green shoots of recovery. Jim Davidson to cultural diversity. Richard Barnbook AM to London’s status as the coolest city on the planet. At best, these web spaces are gossipy, illegitimate political off-shoots of the Daily Mirror’s 3AM – at worst, they’re unregulated online bullying, slowly worming their way into mainstream consciousness. There is a danger that a new generation of potential British political activists who are engaged with the power of Web 2.0, will be carelessly batted away. Alistair Campbell gets it... the UK can and will do much better.
I’d like you to know this: I am the founder of the Stand Up Tall Project - a new, progressive, youth-driven, voluntary political initiative, which seeks out discussion, understanding and action on crime, its underlying causes and its coverage. The project will aim to: bridge the gulfs between Westminster, the media, local communities and everyday life in the UK - these divides are increasingly significant; engage those people disenfranchised with the UK’s action on crime and youth; generate open and accessible discussion; create union and consensus amongst disjointed groups; push forward new voices and, in the end, reach uncharted waters on issues around crime, youth and politics.
More generally, this project will look to shake off the unpleasant undertones and connotations of being a British online political entity. Partly, we will look to do this with a range of great contributors including a number of Ministers, high-profile MPs, NGOs and musicians (Ashley Walters aka Asher D of So Solid Crew, for example). But this project will also be driven by accessible discussions and honest reflection on what it means to be British today – Guido Fawkes et al have no relevance or significance to everyday life in the UK and what’s going on in British communities in 2009. This reflects the change we need.
The UK’s political left needs to launch a relentless rebuttal operation within the blogosphere against the opportunism of many of the most high-profile blogs. The UK’s grassroots need to be tapped into, the strength of British communities needs to be harnessed and those people concerned with equality, justice and inclusivity need to unite now more than ever to shape the narrative. If there are cycles of change in politics, there is space now for a new era in online British campaigning.
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Elliott Burton: The Social Media Forum: www.thesocialmediaforum.org
People love this because it exposes what's going on and acts as a brake on others with similar inclinations. The popularity of the site speaks for itself.
Why you and others should attack his work is mystifying. If politicians acted honourably there would be nothing to attack and when they don't they deserve to be exposed. That is democracy.
Much of what you've written is sententious drivel. Just another worthy sounding article going on about what needs to be done rather than doing it and making a success of it.
Just do it and if you are successful you will have the standing to be listened to.
I think we should start by just telling the truth and not spinning lies.
This whole episode has done us huge damage in the eyes of the public.
In other words, you plan to suckle mightily at the state's teat and promote the state's aim in exchange for power, prestige and money. Just like every other quango out there. At some point, the masses will twig just what a monumental scam and waste of taxpayers' money the third sector is. And then they will come for you too.
Get out before you get comfy. Get out before your family realise that you are nothing more than a whore.
That's partly what was so great about the Obama/Blue State Digital campaign, it engaged people that wouldn't otherwise care about politics. That's political social networking at its best and I think this is where the UK needs to go now.
You've got Delboy to a tee there. And please stop using the word 'progressive' when you mean 'same old tired rubbish'.
So Solid? Even I know they're not cool. And I bet Da Kidz really dug "Tackling drug and alcohol related crime and disorder by Uncle Alan Campbell MP, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State responsible for crime reduction".
..."it’s crunch time for UK politics..."
No, it's crunch time for Labour.
"If you are interested in our editor Derek Draper's personal blog or psychotherapy websites click here. If you want to follow him on Twitter click here"
Whilst this man fronts this, his personal web page for promoting his media activities, nobody will ever take you seriously.
LabourList is a release valve for all and sundry to vent their anger at our corupt politicians. How the US bloggers must be laughing at you.
Whilst the profile is incredibly diverse, it will probably appear to you to be 'Conservative' (I think that's what you're getting at) because we all sick to the stomach of New Labour (it's the George Bush you're either with us or against us attitude and extremely arrogant).
But don't worry, there is hope. Once New Labour have been unceremoniously dumped at the next election, diversity will hit the UK blogosphere and those of us opposed to New Labour and Tory will become more apparent.
I, myself, would say I'm a political reformist (or democrat) if there is such a thing as I disagree with monopoly power based upon a small minority of the vote (weren't we promised political reform some time ago)?
So-solid crew are partly a production of New Labour. In any other society, people who spout hate-lyrics glamourising (yes, it is glamourising, NOT speaking about real life) gun crime would not get a podium. New-Labours "inclusive" society means people with hearts full of hate get their work endorsed, purely BECAUSE it's black music, with no critical analysis of their music. There are plenty of people in south London who are no crooks, where is their voice?
It's embarrasing, that's what it is! The voice of So Solid was as a recent teenager, the voice I wanted to avoid. The type of lads who would mug you, tap up your girlfriend and then say to New-Lab in that annoying baby-speak fake patious "Like, theres no opportunity for like, young kids like, from the street, ja get me blood!"
The working class of this country used to have pride and a work ethic. Thatcher damaged this, your lot have made it much, much worse.
Long Live Guido, and I hope you lot have a long spell messing around with leaflets when your texpayer funding runs out.
NB Laura Penny - "This is why women should be running the political blogosphere"
Very inclusive!
Maybe Women should run politics, seeing how well Thatcher, Harman, Smith and Blears have done.
As for the actual topic of this thread... it skirts the edge if the issue and then gets lost in partisanship and analogies. Actually, if you're centre-right, or just enjoy debate, there some very good blog and debating forums on the web. Indeed, CentreRight is an excellent example - nothing like the Mirror's 3AM. I take the point though, many blogs do exist like that, but they are not the only choice.
What LabourList, and this article's author, haven't grasped yet is that healthy debate weigh people of a different point if view is GOOD.
"I am the founder of the Stand Up Tall Project - a new, progressive, youth-driven, voluntary political initiative, which seeks out discussion, understanding and action on crime, its underlying causes and its coverage."
discussion on crime:
Too much of it about.
Understanding and action on crime:
I understand someone has committed a crime.
This person needs to be punished.
Its underlying causes and its coverage:
Unpunished feckless behaviour.
Breakdown of the traditional family unit.
There's a lot of it about.
and in that one sentence your dream of a new left of centre blog culture just crashed and burned.
You still don't get it do you? The reason that Labour fails so abysmally at the internet is because its obsessed with top-down process. The internet is individualistic and bottom-up. Its organic - you just cant dictate how its going to evolve.
Given the intellectual shallowness of New Labour, when I first came to this site as a right-leaning voter (but not a "Tory Troll") I really wasn't expecting very much to be honest. However LabourList has vastly underperformed even my low expectations. Most - though not all - articles have been of an intellectually very poor quality..so poor in fact, that it gets boring debating here. Its like shooting rats in a barrel - fun at first but but you soon tire of the easy kills.
But what is truly shocking is the DEAFENING SILENCE of ordinary Labour members - what Sherlock Holmes may cause the curious incident of the dog in the night time - the dog that didnt bark. Some people talk of limiting this site to those who are from the Labour party...well in that case judging from the comments posted you'd lose about 85% of your input.
What has happened to the ordinary Labour voter this site was aimed at? Where are they? Don't they have opinions any more? Are they just totally demoralised, disgusted or just utterly cowed by the relentless bullying of your vicious spinmeisters like Campbell or Mandelson that they are terrified of appearing off-message?
Once upon a time, as Labour conferences showed, Labour party internal democracy was impressive in its rumbustuous passion. No longer. You are a sad shell of a political party, limping into opposition and perhaps extinction.
The most important focus is raising the bar on Labour List. A better platform, editing, and moderation would bring the site up to the standard I'd expect to see on any world class game review site. There's nothing new in that and solutions can be bought off the shelf and be seen working world outside the British political bubble.
Politically, Labour need to throw a big punch at Cameron that shows him up to be dumb and a crowd follower. They need to hit him hard, hard, hard. Make the man sink to his knees and blub like a girl. It's difficult to maintain proper form and be this intense but Labour need to be focused and show no mercy. It's a bit paradoxical but Labour also have to impress reason and kindness on the Tories at the same time.
On the web, the media have got discussion and free speech mixed up. They'll print any nonsense and allow anyone on their forums to spout corrosion. This drives out reasoned discussion and the regular voter. Educating the media at the top and showing up troll comments in all and every online media is key to letting the air out of that bubble.
There's lots that can be done seriously fast to raise the bar. Some of that is already being done by Labour going for the big positive agenda. Other stuff, like web platforms, is plug and play. You'd have to be an idiot not to make Labour List look great and be usable. The media are losing circulation and confuse page hits with success. By leading the way the media have a $$$ interest in staying sweet with the better agenda.
What a nasty little man you are Chuck. No wonder you are on record as being a fan and supporter of the (once-again) disgraced Draper. It does seem that you have so much in common...
My... this has made me rethink my long-time admiration for the likes of Leigh Hunt and William Hone.
Dear Gabe, I do think you miss the fundamental necessity for encouraging the likes of Guido; after all, isn't it a Labour Government that wants to introduce ID cards and that has increased the time one can be held without charge?
How a socialist government got us into two illegal wars?
How a socialist government has mishandled our economy?
etc etc etc etc.....
Labour populists blogs? Fat chance. We have had enough vacuous politically correct new speak and spin. Give me puerile any day rather than that.
In marxist terms, the political blogosphere is naturally counterhegemonic. It's for people to throw buns at the establishment. And, it seems the problem is that the British authoritarian left haven't quite grasped that you are the establishment now. You aren't revolutionaries and dissidents. You are the political class. For those of us outside, you are now the enemy, the *ocracy, the people in charge living off our labours. That's why you can't seem to summon up enthusiasm; you're the stuffy old boys network. Anyone with a trace of originality of thought is on The Other Side.
You think in collectives. The web is about individuals. You'll never get it.
'State Sponsored Rock & Roll' has never, and will never work - LabourList has a hollow feel to it - like reading a passive-agressive health & safety notice on a bus -
'Passengers are advised to keep their belongings near them at all times... etc etc'
But, I think we can do much more than throwing buns at politicians, when it comes to politics and social networking. There’s real potential for networking-building and idea-sharing, but most significantly of all, for giving a platform to those people who feel disengaged and removed/voiceless in the political system. It’s great to have a clique of individual voices with creative freedom to question to the Government, but I think we can do much more. I think political blogging/social networking will become a lot less introverted and much more exciting.
Pah - I give up -
Being a bit of a left-leaning softie and a natural adherant to the concept of 'Give & Take/Social Justice' (for want of a better phrase.), this so-called 'Labour' (hollow laughs all round) government make me almost physically sick.
Just go.
And take all the BS £100K hangers-on with you.
The British are seriously cluttered and anti-social in the head, and it shows up in the broken economic fundamentals. Heck, it can't be any more obvious when House Doctor went in and showed what British homes were like before a makeover.
The British can't stop arguing and pointing fingers at each other. Politics and the economy is in the sink because of this. This is why Zen recommends people let go. It creates a space for rationality and sociability, change, and a healthy level of reality to penetrate.
"But this project will also be driven by accessible discussions and honest reflection on what it means to be British today – Guido Fawkes et al have no relevance or significance to everyday life in the UK and what’s going on in British communities in 2009."
How dare you suggest that "Guido Fawkes et al' are irrelevant to everyday life in the U.K. Typical radical, P.C. lefty view that I would expect from contributors to this site. Nu Labour have systematically sought to erode 'Britishness' over the past 10 years, hence we're left with a crumbling, depressed, bankrupt and ailing society with little sense of identity.
People such as yourself have the sheer audacity to try and redefine what it means to be British, with clearly no regard for the tradition or history that made this nation great (Before 11 years of Labour mis-rule.) Sure! Let's get Churchill off the history curriculum in favour of Twitter . . . Surely Churchill has 'no relevance or significance to everyday life in the UK!' ??
Nu Labour are no Democratic Party in the same way Gordon Brown is not Obama. And to quote the man himself:
"You can put lipstick on a pig - but at the end of the day it's still a pig"
It won't matter how you dress up 'Nu Labour' it'll still be the same old hypocritcal shambles it has always shown itself to be.
I find your post divisive rather than inclusive. How on earth you dare talk about equality, justice and inclusivity in the light of MP expense claims, the events of this weekend, massive job losses, fragmenting communities, out of control immigration and massive public discontent, is beyond me. Clearly illustrates yet again how out of touch your party is.
Astonishing.
Have to say that I do agree with this to a large degree although he does, as this weekend proves, have an relevance, albeit not directly.
To the family where they are struggling to make ends meet and who probably don't even read blogs let alone heard of Guido, there is no direct relevance.
The indirect relevance comes in the form of Labour dumping McBride and maybe not using him in the 2010 election where he "might" make a difference.
It comes in him outing dodgy MP's and maybe them not being voted in next time around.
Personally I think Guido's played this really well over the last few weeks and used Draper's ego to bring down McBride. Again, no direct relevance on the struggling family, but the drip drip of "bl**dy Labour" may be felt next year.
Maybe Guido would like to add anything?
LabourList
After this weekend's emails quite frankly it's a joke. It was heading downhill already and has (hopefully) hit bottom now.
If it's by Labour people for Labour people then I suggest you moderate any non-party faithful off here (as continually suggested by Charles Hardwick). And that would include me too. Have it as an insiders blog, with everyone having an account and nobody's allowed to saying anything bad about it or the party.
If it's to reach out and try and get voters back then you need (in my opinion) to make some big changes.
1 - Keep Draper by all means but stop it from promoting his books, appearances etc. It smacks of his personal blog at times which means if he looks bad, so do you.
2 - Quit with calling everyone that doesn't agree a "Tory Troll". There's a lot of pissed off people who feel they cannot disagree with their own party any more.
3 - Stop slagging off the Tories. Big one I know, but concentrate on putting over what Labour has done and is doing. That's actaully doing and not what Gordon has planned in 10 years time.
4 - Get grass roots people in to post...maybe even non Labour voters. This will mean listening to views that you may not agree with. This means you may need to stop Prescott and Miller reading them.
5 - Make the posts readable and not a paragraph of good points padded by 6 of political elistism.
6 - Get posters to respond to the comments. That means when someone posts an article and people ask "and how did you come to that conclusion" the poster actually responds and backs up what they've said.
7 - Don't be so ******* childish. Oooooh look at our A-Listers, and then Z-List the Tory website. Yeah, very 5 year old!
8 - If someone ****s up, apologise, and move on. Unfortunately there are several on here who defend ANYTHING the party does. Not good for voters. We don't expect perfect.
9 - STOP BLAMING THATCHER!! You've had 12 years!!
Go Fourth
Would love to comment but I am not Prescott's biggest fan. I find the man an egotiscal bully who dismisses anything said against him or the party.
This is fine if you want to stick in 1978 but if you are going to learn and move forward, doing the "Tory Troll" and "back when I was..." lines are (in my opinion) off putting and convince me to vote Tory next time round.
Whatever you do, don't even consider a Guido style blog. His works because it has evolved and like him or loathe him, he's good at what he does. He's seen as impartial because he dislikes politicians and I suspect he'd be doing the same if he was back in Major's time.
Alternatively carry on as you are. Do more articles like:
1 - Emma Jones' stomach churning Mothers Day post;
2 - Harman's "I've been following" post that she's never come back to;
3 - Grace Fletcher-Hackwood telling us we hate Harriet because of various reasons, none of which were true. One was "People who troll LabourList and similar sites to peddle their paranoid delusions that domestic violence is a myth". This from a woman who also resorted to violence when she couldn't get her own way.
Sorry it's a bit of a long post, and feel free to be critical. Constructive critiscm is good and I am always open to new views and ideas.
I can't understand all the Labour, Labour, Labour stuff. I can assure you if the posters on this blog who are all up Labour's butt were actually going round the doors knocking, I can assure you that what they get in here is probably 1/10th of what they get when the knock the doors campaigning.
Whatever they get in here could be used as research for door-knocking.
However, it is beyond me to help Labour any more. I'm going Jury Team - and they really need a kick up the arse, but I'd rather help good rubbish than bad rubbish.
I think that's been most of the problem here - too many people taking the party line and dismissing anything said against it as Tories pi**ing about. A very short sighted view in my opinion as why would the Tories try and convert the party faithful?
Am waiting to hear Mr Miller's comments when he gets back from holiday tomorrow. Mr Hardwidge has already made his views known above.
Have to say I'm not really suprised and hence my comment about Harman. I'll confess I am not a fan of hers for various reasons but one of them was her brief appearance on here...to never to be seen again.
I think the site needs a major MP as a "sponsor" on here to give it some clout. Joking asides, I can't think of anyone that would fit that position at the moment with regards clout, ethics and stature.
There are a bunch of trolls out there. Some are Tories stoking it, the rest are an incoherent frothing because they're too caught up in themselves to write anything worth reading or take a moment out to stroke someone else's ego.
Moderation isn't censorship. It's about cutting out the deliberate trolling and posturing. The British lack self-confidence and ease with other people and it shows. By putting a better model in place people have something to aim for.
But the fact remains Mr H that you didn't offer anything did you? Apart from the usual boring troll remarks, wanting to moderate people like me off here and the usual santimonious bile you preach.
Sorry if this sounds a bit OTT but you come on here and accuse others of offering nothing and then do nothing yourself. You come out with "too caught up in themselves to write anything worth reading or take a moment out to stroke someone else's ego" whilst doing the same yourself.
In my opinion - and it's only my opinion - people like you ARE the reason this site and the Labour Party are in the **** they are in at the moment. You are happy as long as people agree with you but God help anyone that doesn't.
I've read some of the other comments about my post which appear to be complimentary - I'd like to say thank you to them but please feel free to correct me where you feel I am wrong. I am all for listening to alternative viewpoints,
However, as usual Mr Hardwidge you offer nothing except a bunch of meaningless drivel. For example...
"The British lack self-confidence and ease with other people and it shows"
And how is that? You make comments like this then fail to explain. Like the party you support, you appear to be full out soundbites but no actual substance. I await your comments...
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
More tractor production statistics I fear.
One I read today whined about the current McBride emails but on the same site accuses someone of rape. Political blogging in the UK isn't in the same league as that in the US because it doesn't contribute anything, the popular ones are merely vehicles for people to get into the main stream media they moan about.
They really need to get over themselves. The aspiration to create a similar environment than that in the US will never happen because the party system paints single issue parties or groups are crackpots, racists or naive. It is precisely single issues however that people have an emotional attachment to.
http://www.redrag.co.nz/
That's gotta hurt.
Sadly, it is quite possible that readers of your comment might actually come to believe that this is precisely why women should NOT be running the blogosphere; unless, that is, you planned to elaborate upon the accusation of fascism with some further information that we do not already know (please note that I'm already in agreement with your estimation that Staines is very possibly an arserag).
Fascism is a big word with a long history. The ample use of that word as a mere insult by many who post on Labourlist.org (including yourself now) is regrettable, largely because the use of it in such a paltry manner empties it of its vast and historic significance. Those that scream fascism very often mean 'you tory shit' but they feel the need to up the stakes. Why? What they in fact end up doing is simply sounding shrill and unable to form a measured response.
However... Those of us that know something about what it is to actually live under and amidst true fascists feel let down by this kind of mudslinging on what is supposed to be (I'm told) a serious attempt to engage voters. Next time you feel the need to insult a blogger (that, after all, is the reason why you left the comment) think about how your comment will be read by those who lost love ones to fascism, and those who fought fascists with much more at stake than their bandwidth.
.... and who created those? And why, if that's the case, are you posting in this site - so closely linked to scandal and the worst gutter politics of the last 20 years?
And please don't try to sprinkle yourselves with the Obama/blogosphere fairy dust. Can you imagine in a million years that his senior press aides would descend into the sub-sewage of the Draper/McBride concoctions?
If Labour List and other people want to raise the bar they need to clear their minds of all the arguing and upset, and just go for it. They have to find something they're interested in and drive that hard, and where people make a connection build on that. Having their own blog and moderation powers can help accelerate that process. They're free to print or nuke anyone they like. If the articles are interesting enough people will roll up to read them. If some whiner gets nuked they can scream about censorship or put their money where their mouth is and start their own blog. It's a free world, right? Well, Labour List is free to do what it wants, right? I think, they should and that will call the bluff of a few armchair politicians.
Labour List has the leverage of the Labour brand and Draper's star quality behind it. Other folks don't have that leg up but there's nothing stopping them developing a vision and getting their own blog going. The market is saturated with Tories but there's a lot of virgin territory out there and the tools are cheap or free. If someone wants to do something great and make an impact the biggest thing stopping them isn't technology or cost but themselves. Some of them may even turn out to be stars in their own right. As a market leader Labour List can set the standard and help expose new talent. It could be you.
Brilliant! Deviously clever satire or absolute self-delusion.
Whilst I agree that online campaigning will come to the fore at the next GE, I can't see how Labour can get their act together in time.