By Derek Draper
Since the beginning of this year we have worked hard to build a Labour supporting presence online. 99.9% of that time was taken up by setting up LabourList and trying to build it into our version of ConservativeHome. I am proud of what we have achieved in those three months. But of course I regret the 0.1% of my time that I spent thinking about how we might set up a separate left wing “gossipy” site. We had been looking at the success of the right across the blogosphere and seen how effective their more scurrilous elements were. To be honest I think we were a bit dazzled by what they get up to.
But in the end both myself and Damian McBride came to believe that such a site would be wrong. That is why when you look at LabourList tens of thousands of words have been posted since those emails were sent back in January and the site we had kicked around the idea of - Red Rag - remains completely empty. You can see where my energy and passion has been going.
But Damian did write and send those emails, I did respond hastily and stupidly and now, thanks - it appears - to someone hacking into my private emails, they are in the public domain. Damian has paid a heavy price for writing them but I have to stress one important point: without the hacking they would never ever have seen the light of day. They were destined for the trash can. But we should never really have considered the idea and I am sorry we did. We got ourselves drawn into the most negative part of the blogosphere when we should have been concentrating exclusively on the more positive aspects as a model for LabourList.
So I am sorry. I am particularly sorry to the individuals mentioned in those juvenile emails, and especially sorry to Nadine Dorries, George and Frances Osborne and David and Samantha Cameron. I can understand why they – and others – may be sceptical but all I can do is absolutely promise that these stories were just daft ideas that never – and would never have - got off the drawing board.
So in those last three months we have had some successes and made some mistakes. The most obvious being this silly idea that the smears and slurs of the right-wing blogosphere could be challenged through setting up an alternative Labour supporting gossip website – whether it contained the infamous stories in Damian´s emails or more harmless tittle tattle.
LabourList has a lot of work to do to grow and support progressives online. I want to draw a line under this email affair and make it absolutely clear that we will be doing that by discussing issues, policies and campaigning. Dozens of people have posted and thousands of comments have been made, the site grows every day, and gets richer and deeper too. That is because LabourList is about ideas and not smears.
On that note, though, while I do think it is right that we hold our opponents accountable our tone has sometimes been wrong. On the specifics of Iain Dale I do think he should have condemned Carol Thatcher when she used the term Golliwog but I have never said he was a racist. From what I know – and hear of him – I don´t believe him to be prejudiced at all, and actually a rather decent guy, just wrong about that particular issue. If I ever suggested other than that I apologise to him too. It may also surprise you to hear me ackowledge that, from what I know and hear, Paul Staines aka Guido Fawkes is also not a racist, though we did, rightly I believe, criticize him for hosting racist comments on his site, alongside other offensive material.
Maybe this affair will encourage the whole blogosphere, right and left, to commit to a new start, where offensiveness and personal attacks are avoided and debate is elevated not dragged down into the gutter? Maybe this can be a turning point at which we all redouble our efforts to tap into the internet´s positive potential rather than allowing its more peurile aspects to come to the fore? But that won´t happen without many many more people getting involved and taking blogging out of its ghetto.
For those who have suppported LabourList and feel they have been let down, I apologise. I would encourage them – and others - to stay with us: read the site, get involved, make some comments and write some posts. Join the community and make it what you want it to be.
That was always the way to build Labour´s case on line not getting distracted by silly plans for tittle tattle and gossip. I did realize that in time, but should have done so even earlier.. However I really am proud of LabourList and what we are trying to achieve and I rededicate myself to that 100%.
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God bless the Internet and (most of) those who sail on her.
I thought all emails were now monitored so why should your heroes be different. I take it from your tone you cannot remember true socialism before New Labour where the people came first.
There are still left wing parties you know so why dont you go away and let us re build a party for the people.
I am not a Tory. I am a Labour supporter. It is the likes of McBride,Draper and yourself that have dragged our party of the people into the mire. May you all be ashamed at the damage you have done to the party that could have been the saviour of the people. Honestly go into a quiet corner and contemplate the major major disasters the last 10 years, not least the deaths of all those british servicemen killed in Iraq on a lie by New Labour. Ask yourself would a pre New Labour PM have done that? Hang your head in shame all three of you.
The absolute irony is that this government can and is monitoring all our emails and Draper is surprised his got out. Thick or what.
http://bastardoldholborn.blogspot.com/2009/04/derek-takes-his-pc-for-day-out.html
Sue, when David Cameron viciously and condecendingly poked fun at Gordon Brown during PMQs over the age of Titian a Tory spindocter promtly ammended Wikipedia to save his boss blushed. Cameron's attack was childish, unkind and irrelevent to politics. The Tory staffer's actions were outright dishonest. But the tories joked about an 'over enthusiastic' staff member and the everyone, (inc Labour) dropped the issue.
David Camaron's spin machine makes Blair's look timid- and the whole tone of politics has become rotton. I think McBride and Draper made school boy errors in even discussing the Red Rag. But at least they never acted on the idea.
Well no problem with that, but `private' doesn't apply to e mail sent from your workplace using your workplace e mail, as two of my ex colleagues now cooling their heels down at the Job Centre can testify. In the real world of work companies crack down very hard on this sort of behaviour as they are painfully aware of
a. the possibility of being sued
b. the loss of reputation losing them business
c. the fact that the employees weren't employed to sit around slandering people.
The most revealing thing about this to me is that Draper/McBride and presumably others in that circle actually think that the general public will be put off the Tories by reading stories about people's sexuality, past drug taking, mental illness, and sexual peccadillos! Demonstrating how out of touch with the real world they are! What people do find offensive is behaviour such as trying to make money by using their political influence (Draper), or taxpayer funded civil servants who spend their time slandering people (McBride).
Perhaps Brown and his mates should spend a bit more time getting out of their darkened rooms, meeting the general public and putting across their policies. Instead of which they leave the BNP to do a roaring trade in places like Barnsley town centre each Saturday.
Looks like the end then Derek, you just can't admit it here
Once you go, the rest can get on with the day-to-day
I am not sure what else he can do but I cant help thinking that any credibility he had left has been flushed down the pan by his own clumsy approach.... and apology!
Although not a fan of DD, even I am starting to think this has been dragged through the mud far enough now.
i dont doubt that youve had your own demons to battle in the past but i doubt less that you are incapable learning anything and that this has been the case since about 1989 when charlotte gave you a lesson.....we all have things in our past that are best left there, you not least!! do yourself, your family and the party a favour, phck off and dont come back!!
For Doing it------minus 10 points
For getting caught-----minus 100 points
For lying about it-----minus 100 points
For looking and sounding like a Twat on TV and radio--minus 1000 points
For providing the Opposition with hours of favourable TV coverage---minus 1000 points
For making sure that Guido gets hundreds of thousands of hits (and pay per click revenue) instead of just hundreds--------------minus 10,000 points
For making a career move (into oblivion)-------nul point.
Go study Private Eye 1964-1970 to see how it should be done!
Get over it. Move on. As much as you think this will help it won't. Think of some policies and maybe some ideas about how to run a country.
FAO Guido Faulkes.
Remember remember the last election.
You lost the last election
with your negative campaigning
maybe a policy might be out of the question
fools
Fire fighters were this afternoon called to the west London home of disgraced Labour spin doctor Derek Draper after reports that the occupants pants were on fire...
I am back at school next week teaching all the kids not to vote for a man (if thats not too strong) like Cameron at the next election.
Now we have to see how they avoid the police inquest.
Ditch this useless leader, get someone who can command and then fight an election
You might get me joining the Labour Party if you don't watch out. Is that what you want?
And yes, Anna Tatton, we do need to find out. A criminal investigation would be a good start and far reaching given that McBride it appears committed a criminal offence under S6 of the Code of Conduct for Civil Servants. Similarly, Paragraph 3.3 of the Ministerial Code
“The responsibility for the management and conduct of special advisers, including discipline, rests with the Minister who made the appointment.” That makes the PM directly responsible. The resignation should not have been accepted, McBride should have been sacked - as he resigned, he will be allowed to keep his taxpayer funded gold plated pension - are you happy about that.
Perhaps you forget that Damien Green was arrested on suspicion of aiding and abetting misconduct in a public office - which puts the person you are such a fan of in what position exactly?
What are you saying Derek Draper is actually guilty of? Being the recipient of an email?
The only thing worse in politics than dirty tricks, are hypocrits!
It is sad that SOME people in all parties think personal attacks are the way to do
politics. On a personal level I find bad language, sexual jokes, and most 18 rated films
offensive so I find such behaviour in public servants highly untasteful. Having said
that, I also believe people should be tried for the crimes they actually commit not for
the ones they haven't. If there were evidence of a planned and orchastrated smear
campaign all planned and ready to lauch I would be leading the calls for resignations.
But it is clear to any sane person that these were silly ideas bounced around an office
and promptly disregarded. Anyone who pretends that political campaigners of every colour
don't think up and then disguard ideas that are bad taste either knows little about
politics or dilluding themselves.
I believe that private jokes between friends should remain private. If offence was
caused by the material, that it fault of the publishers.
As for Jaqui Smith, the real issue is the ridulous second home allowance. She kept to
the letter but not the spirit of the rules. Given her role in capping police payrises
her behaviour seems particularly hypocritical and I think she should go. I also believe
that her virgin media bill and its contents should remain private.
People like you want one rule for some and another rule for others.
Yes, thats where the stinking hypocracy really lies, Derek is, quite rightly, sensitive about his personal relationships but sees nothing wrong in smearing someone's elses wife for her perceived mental health problems. And thats even before you get onto him supposedly being a psychotherapist.
And there's no such thing as private emails anymore, the government reads them all because we're all terrorists now.
I don't think you should offer regrets and apologies for what, after all, was a private email conversation. We all do silly things like that.
What I find incredibly offensive are the remarks on the Tory websites - towards your wife and you. I hope you and Kate can use your optimistic nature to shrug these off as the misinformed rantings of neo-fascists who are, unfortunately, out in force.
Love, warmth and best wishes from a fan (although I am much, much, much more left wing than you).
Keep up the good work and try and find out how the private emails got leaked. We need to find out! Keep smiling. Hope the birth goes well.
Anna Tatton
The fact that publicly paid employees in Number 10 are engaged in such scurrilous activities is in itself a scandal. They should all be sacked and they (or the Labour party) forced to return their inflated salaries.
Political spads and employees are not the same as reporters of privately owned newspapers.
There is no evidence that Derek Draper's email account was hacked. The fact that he 'says so' is immaterial. Recent events have proven beyond doubt what many already knew - that Derek Draper is a self-obsessed liar.
Stop attacking the messenger and start addressing the filthy, corrupt and incompetent mess that is the government that you seem to support.
Does this mean we'll see the Met Police knocking on the door of Number 10 Downing Street for the second Prime Minister in a row? Seizure of computer equipment?
Why can't the leader be decisive and strong?
If offence was caused, the real culprits are those who hacked into your emails and those who published them. The last time I checked Derek, hacking was illegal. I trust you are pursuing this matters and those who obviously had Tory interests at heart will be brought to justice.
I wonder how many newspaper editors feel a need to ask their readers forgiveness for every coarse office joke, or story idea that makes second cut? I wonder how many even know about them.
Now David Cameron wants to waste tax payers money with a public enquirey.
Derek, why is Labour playing into the media's hands on this one? We should be fighting back, starting with investigations into who hacked your account? Why was Jaqui Smith's media bill made public and how many more spies have the Conservatives planted in the home office?
Derek, you could still show some scrap of personal integrity and resign, but since taking responsibility for your actions is something you are pathologically incapable of, I hope your backers are prompted by the public outrage at your despicable behaviour to fire you.
Below is a snip of a post I sent to a US Peak Oil forum as an example of what politicians should aim at. These are the kind of things I like to hear from Labour politicians, can Gordon Brown and Peter Mandelson now please return the party they stole from us:
Tony Benn's plea for an energy policy in 1992:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WbtFga4c3g#noexternalembed&feature=related
Benn on British arms sales to Iraq, including Britain bombing Iraq with chemical weapons in 1920s, britain's plan to invade Kuwait in the 50s and general bad British behaviour:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPL-IaFpcZA#noexternalembed&feature=related
The final sentence in this is powerful, appealing to the house of commons to take responsibility he says
"Unless we hold this government to account, we will be burying this house as an historic defender of the rights of the people we were sent to represent, some of whom were sent to fight in Iraq, against an army we had armed."
Compared to what Blair, Brown, Mandelson, Campbell and the rest of them did to the Labour party, your mistake was negligible. What really was the point in Labour getting in to power only to continue Thatcher's policies? Now the chickens are coming home to roost and we find out that in fact it was the likes of Benn, Foot and Scargill who were right after all. Such a shame.
You want us to "contribute to the site, leave comments, make it what we want it to be"? Fine. But not while you're still editor. I'm having nothing more to do with labourlist until Derek Draper resigns as editor of it. If we lose the next election, it's because of people like you.
http://www.labourhome.org/story/2009/4/13/11560/4605
Goodbye Derek, just wait whilst we get security to escort you from your office suite
Anyone seen Charlie?
1. Who exactly is going to pay for the enormous amount of deficit and debt now in the economy? Is it a) the rich b)the economy by growing very fast indeed or c) the poor?
2. What, exactly, are we going to cut from the enormous and blossoming State expenditure? Is it a) teachers, nurses, police and firefighters? b) politicians and government people's pensions and expenses or c)other public servants?
3. What steps are we taking to improve the vital GDP? a) none. b) introduce a shorter working week, rights for women workers and anti-discrimination legislation with all the unnecessary paperwork that entails c) tax incentives etc or d) massive inflation.
Answers on a postcard, please, to Derek Draper.
Sometimes, an apology, no matter how gracious and humble, just isn't enough. Did Brown accept McBride's apology and draw a line under the whole affair. No. In Draper's case, an apology is not enough. LabourHome is calling for Draper to leave the party. And comments on LabourList are calling for him to step down. His position is untenable.
And the reason he's indirectly calling a form or truce is because he's been caught with his pants down. A truce suggests that neither side is winning, and there's not point in fighting if there can never be a victor. This isn't the case. Draper has lost. He's dead and buried.
They weren't just ideas. There was a specific plan. In the emails Derek talks about setting up the technological side. Lo and behold, they create a name for the site they planned to publish these 'ideas', they register a web domain under an anonymous name. They discussed the timing of these allegations. Everything was actually planned. Now you can choose to ignore these facts, but the rest of us won't.
The fact that you try to minimise these events is even more disturbing than the events themselves.
your close involevment in the current mess up suggests you are not the best person to coordinate it. I think therefore you
should stand down as LabourList's coordinator, for the sake of the project, and for the sake of the Labour Party, the reputation of which you
have helped badly to compromise, and not for the first time. Many of us gave you the benefit of the doubt when you decided to resume working
with the Party. That now seems a mistake. Please then go back to the political wilderness, and allow us activists the chance, without you around,
to put things right. David Halpin
things right
As you enjoy anagrams, I thought I'd make your day and include some more for your reading pleasure.
Anagrams of "Gordon Brown"
Rob 'n' do wrong
Born - do wrong
Anagrams of "Prime Minister Gordon Brown"
Memo: Print borrowings in red
Mr. "I`m into spending" Borrower
Worst, boring premier. No mind
Rib Premier "Downing St. moron"
and my favourite...
I'm brewing terror, doom n spin
Anagrams of "Gordon Brown in Number Eleven"
Woe! Moron 'n' never ending blurb!
Renowned, even burbling, moron.
Anagram of "Gordon Brown in Number Ten"
Boring nerd - number not won
I really don't care if you find my last remark offensive. But it certainly isn't unfounded. Crime is worse now than it was a decade ago. I've personally been a victim of crime seven times since Labour took office. Yes, the courts decide punishment, but the government hands out guidance to the courts on how to deal with specific crimes. And Labour have been overly keen on rehabilitation within the community instead of having prisoners serve time. Community service orders leave those criminals free to pursue their criminal activities.
Typical Labour shite. Wilfully misunderstand/too stupid to understand.
Labour have been delving into the personal history of what must be all of the SNP MSPs to drag out the dirt, using the media which they have tied up to present only the Labour side of the story. We get crocodile tears for the vulnerable when an SNP policy is brought forward for the hard-working and we get crocodile tears for the hard-working when a policy is brought forward for the vulnerable. What we don't get is working together for the country but protests for partisan points. And like Cameron we don't get any Labour policies either because, according to Labour, they are in opposition and will bring forward policies at the next election. Sound familiar?
Labour introduced graduate top up fees in Scotland when in power. SNP wanted to get rid of them. When it was discussed the Labour party arranged a protest outside Holyrood with the student union for the fees not (at the time) being yet implemented. Then Labour tried to vote it down. They vote down policies all the time then get the media to headline with broken manifesto pledges. Similar situation for PFI hospital car-parking charges.
I was born in Scotland but my sisters, my brothers and my parents were all born in England. I know several English people who are SNP activists. But Labour, over and over again, tar us all as bigots, "racists", chip-on-the-shoulder, and anti-English. We're not we believe Scotland would be better governed by Scotland, but the Labour party use the media on their side to label every member and voter with some very unpleasant labels. Again, sound familiar?
A couple of weeks ago Jim Murphy (Labour Scottish secretary) tried to undermine the SNP by visiting China on behalf of Scotland (he claims) with hardly any forewarning. It got plenty of press coverage up here although apparently he tried to do was get a panda for Edinburgh zoo. The SNP, on a long planned and publicised trip to China (which Murphy claimed to know nothing of before we went), is getting great deals for Scottish tourism, trade and education. But we can't read about it in Scotland, ironically we need to read about it in China -- that country not known for it's freedom of press!
I can understand your dislike for the Tories. But there isn't one thing you say you dislike about them that New Labour, in opposition, isn't ten times worse at.
The country is in a terrible state, and will continue to be for some time, because Mr Brown decided to get into bed with the bankers and attract them to the UK through lax regulation and by keeping the Tory's non-dom tax laws. Even Thatcher didn't tax 'hard working families' to give failed bankers multi million pensions.
Admittedly, the Lib Dems aren't much better than the 2 main parties (apart from Vince Cable, who repeatedly warned Mr Brown in parliament of the dangers of bowing & scraping to the bankers), but the only way I can see to get rid of our 2 party oligopoly is to get proportional representation and real democracy. The only way I can see this happening would be a hung parliament with lots of Lib Dem votes.
Another question for you, then: how can you reconcile your Christian beliefs and their attendant moral requirements with your role in this disgusting episode?
Does that not make you a hypocrite? If you are a Christian, you'll remember Jesus' description of hypocrites.
Any chance of an answer?
I guess there are plenty of childish adults about and since they pay their taxes they are entitled to their share of this rubbish but it has had a terrible effect on political debate and seems to have turned most people off any interest in public affairs. All politicians tell lies but the sheer volume of lies at present is beyond belief and it stems from this culture of spin emanating from New Labour (which I used to support). It is too early to predict the outcome of the next election but I would not be too surprised if there was a record low turn out of Labour supporters resulting in a collapse of Labour strength in Parliament and a massive win for the opposition. No amount of spin and lies can make up for the appearance of gross incompetence which is all pervasive.
Did he have to get caught with his hand in the bucket of s**t for people to
realise the person he is. His apology is nauseating and a last ditch attempt to
save himself. He is the man who trample over your child in a plane crash to save
himself. He could have no comprehension that there really are people who
would prefer to lend a helping hand for no other reason than doing the right
thing, no matter what the cost to themselves. He just doesn't realise that
there are decent people in this country who want to lead decent lives,
helped along by good, competent government. I can't sell my house, am struggling
to pay ever increasing bills, feel ashamed to be British and hated by so many
other nations, watch the country sliding into financial and moral bankruptcy at
the hands of low grade, inexperienced individuals, see no happiness on peoples
faces, and we have to suffer people like him dredging the sewers to keep
himself in employment. Here's the depressing bit: he just cannot and will not
understand any of this. As a last ditch attempt, Derek, you're not too old to
change. Try doing something good and worthwhile with your life before it's too
late, and I don't mean your pyschotherapist front, you couldn't possibly have
a clue how to help somebody in emotional need.
A large enough firm could look at information barriers - what the media calls "Chinese Walls" - but I'm not sure Schillings is really big enough for that to be credible. Even then that would need consent from the clients.
The key is that the client Schillings didn't pick in this matter could object to them acting for the other, and tactically you always would!
Schillings could certainly act for someone who was "on the same side" as their client, if their client either wasn't involved or had common interests. For example, a Labour figure accused of involvement in this affair, whom Draper and McBride stated wasn't, could be represented in their defamation suit against a third party by the same people as was defending Draper and McBride.
Of course it's not yet certain anyone's getting sued...
Geddit?
I am disappointed that this matter could not have been sidelined by firm, decisive and timely intervention.
Instead the party appears leaderless, and continually tries to push forward a positive message.
Admit the mistakes, accept the truth, accept accountability and then fix it so it will never happen again.
You are an idiot and a liar (not a very good one)....and as for claiming yourself to be a psycho-therapist when you claim what McBride said was "Brilliant" just makes you to be a bigger fool and sordid incompetent. You got the first part right though - Psycho-as for the second part...well that's anyone's guess.
Just go away, get lost you are a cretinous example to the human race. I relly feel sorry for Kate Garroway...would you find it brilliant if someone sent you an email stating the same disgusting examples about your wife....you complete idiot!!
Not last time I looked
If you don't understand the civil rights issues around CCTV, please be good enough to fit CCTV in your house and let us all watch you as you go about your daily life...
Well that's where your wrong Steven when those posters were created John Major was running the country and they were commissioned in 1995/96 long before Labour came to office in 97.
Labour has not used civil servants at all, nobody told Mr McBride to explore ideas for these e-mails. These are stolen correspondence between two friends, banding about some silly ideas it dose not mean they were sanctioned or instructed.
Little things like the facts do not go far with the press but they are important.
In many ways those posters were comparable. Seeing as there use would have implied that every Labour member or supporter would have supported such criminals going free is a direct smear against them.
I've worked in the Probation service and the posters slogans are not reality. The courts decide punishment and it is the penal system that determines who is released. The reality is Labour has created the space to punish more people then at any other time in recent history.
That is why there is an issue of prison overcrowding; it is not from not locking up people...
The Tories were wrong then and would be wrong now to imply any such smear.
It reminds me of an episode of Star Trek (I don't rememeber the exact episode title) where one of the crew of the Enterprise was held prisoner, and sentenced to death, on an alien planet due to the mental thoughts that she held about an other person.
Are we living in a 'thought-police' society?
The answer is NO."
===
Just remind me who was leading the calls for Carole Thatcher to be sacked for calling someone "golliwog", and who called anyone who tried to defend her "a racist"? Oh, it was Derek wasn't it! That was an utterance as well, didn't stop the attack dogs being unleashed did it?
As for the "Are we living in a thought-police state" comment, I think you will find we are, witness the Carole Thatcher incident, and the fact that the State now has access to every electronic communication made by any of us at any time. Particularly ironic considering Derek's bleatings about his "private" emails being hacked.
Live by the sword, die by the sword, this is poetic justice, methinks.
But thanks for the link. I'm sorry I cannot accept the kisses because I'm married and I wouldn't want Guido to 'accidentally' discover our affair.
The bigger issues are not petty squabbles by Cameron's ego, but what Labour has done for the good of the country and in that area it has achieved plenty that has made a real improvement to peoples lives.
Before Labour came in 1997 I recall people waiting in Hospital corridors because there were beds in, the average wait to see a consultant was 18 months to 2 years.
I recall children being taught in classrooms that were cold and falling apart from lack of maintenance.
Children taught in large classes because there were no teachers to teach. The crime rate was high because the Police were under funded and there were not enough officers. I recall whole generations of young people thrown onto the scrap heap and left to rot.
I also recall that the actual jobless figure was 5 million and not the stated 3 million under Thatcher’s recession, I could go on and on...
Now the reason I can recall all those things is because Labour changed them all for the better. Now seeing at the Tories cared nothing about the harm it caused it is wrong to ever think Labour and Tories are the same.
If you really look behind the gloss that is Cameron you would find nothing sort of a clone of Thatcher, but only worse.
I would never vote Lib Dem as I see no point in their party. What do they offer but indecision, you can take a Lib Dem MP, a Lib Dem County Councillor and a Borough Councillor and all three will have a different opinion to one issue? If that is an alternative you would be better to vote Green, at least they stick to what they say.
I am proud to vote Labour and nothing would ever change my view that Labour is the right Party to lead the country. The bigger issues of how people in Labour care for society do not change just because the media twist and distort reality.
Voting Lib Dem achieves little to nothing. They have been saying there will be a hung parliament at every election since the SDP were formed; in fact I’m pretty sure there is a quote for 97 somewhere.
It will not happen. Either Labour is returned or we face disaster with Cameron and his lets do nothing unless your rich mob.
Labour is a lot stronger now then the misleading media keep trying to make out. You wont think that because the public only see the media view. However it's a different story out canvassing and the real reaction on the door.
If you want to see the bigger issues that are not slanted one way then take a look at the House of Commons Website.
There you will see all the issues that Labour MPs are working on, written as fact, not quotes or remarks or speculation as it’s all recorded in Hansard.
Before thinking there is no difference between Labour and Tories, see what actually is going on. You may find the work Labour do, is nothing like the Tories and the silly negative image the media create who are obsessed with loving Cameron.
Kicking a man when he is down seems to me rather cruel, especially over a long sustained time - in the end you will become as bad as the people you are complaining about.
That said, I do think, Derek, it might be a good idea to get rid of the "Red Rag" domain: if you Googlr it, you are taken to a site with a "hello world" message on it, which might suggest that there are intentions of using it. IF the site was removed it might go some way to repairing some of the damage.
1) Kevin Maguire of the Mirror was also copied in on these emails, so these smears had been spread to the media. Note that Nadine was called by Maguire some weeks ago to probe the smear and he discracefully ran on the STD releated smear this morning.
2) Damien McBride also spread these smears to Andrew Porter of the Telegraph who did not run them under pressure from the Barclay bros
So Derek, "but I have to stress one important point: without the hacking they would never ever have seen the light of day" is more lies? When do you stop lying?
As for hacking. I suggest you look inside Unite rather than at "hackers" lol. I think you'll find that you and Damien have enough enemies and people thinking you are profoundly damaging to the Labour movement without resorting to "hackers".
More popcorn guys....
And as for someone qualified in psychotherapy being willing to spread rumours about someone with alleged mental health problems, that should be referred to the relevant professional body for investigation.
You are under-playing your own part in all this. You COMMISSIONED THIS MATERIAL. You asked for hard-hitting gossip. Specifically to be included in a deniable arms length site designed to be as more or less as sleazy as Fawkes. Supposedly minus the off-colour sexism, homophobia, mental health smears that feature there.
And it is also hard to escape the conclusion that the email account you used for this activity was either not secure or that you yourself copied this to someone who passed it to Fawkes. Assume that Fawkes has every email that ever passed through this account. Are you quite sure that the story that this initiative was spiked back in January will stand close inspection?
YOU, Derek Draper, caused this content to be created. Proactively seeking it and proactively cheering it on. And your own lack of care also may have caused it to reach Fawkes.
Time to go Derek. Give Labour List a chance to recover from this and become the resource that was envisaged. And can you please also stop accepting invitations to be a talking head on behalf of the grass roots? We didn't pick you for that role. It is literally speaking arrogant to take it on.
It’s fair to say I can't comment on Scotland's media because I have spent over 15 years campaigning for Labour in England. I've not come across how the press works over the boarder.
Yet in England it is one sided to suit David Cameron. Frankly I do not care about David Cameron view and all the fuss the e-mails are causing, I know they were silly ideas but it does not mean any of them would have been used.
It's worth remembering that the knowledge of these e-mails is yet again stolen, just like the Damian Green affair and the more recent expenses issue. The Tories seem to rely entirely on theft of information for their little points.
I have no care for Cameron or Osborne because they are horrible vile people who care nothing for society and would do nothing. It's all a game to Cameron he will say and do anything to avoid ever having to talk real policy on what he would ever do in office.
Oh he makes plenty of announcements but the only policy he has ever committed his Party to is bringing back extreme animal cruelty in the form of fox hunting.
Frankly nothing said in some ideas e-mails would make me feel any difference towards him.
His is a disgrace, a faux and a very unpleasant man. I feel no sympathy towards him because he is unfit to be PM.
These ideas may have been OTT but what is said between two friends is not worthy of national coverage in this way. Rarely do any such ideas every make it to something more substance and if you were to scour e-mails from senior Tory's you would find similar ideas being banded about on how to attack Labour.
It does not make any of them right and this is the difference between the Party’s. Labour would not have even considered using them and let alone seen them.
The Tories however where happy to label every Labour supporter and member in the country in favour of prison release for rapists, murderers and muggers, so forgive me for not giving a damn about Cameron's concerns.
Last week we had the G20 and real issues over help for people in the downturn along with the issue of climate change. Issues of importance to everyone in the UK and this week a terrorist threat, but what are the papers talking about?
A bunch of ideas that were not public and would not had turned into anything. It is quite pathetic and shows how low the press sinks to grab a negative.
Now not living in Scotland I can't see how the press act there. Yet I expect all the press no matter where they are to provide balance to the issues of the day.
Balance is something they all struggle to do today and it makes no difference if it’s a red top or broadsheet, they are all as bad as each other.
There is a need for new regulation on the press on how they behave and the stories they cover.
However, this issue and the silly apologies of calls from Cameron to Gordon only show how petty Cameron is. GB did not order anyone to come up with such e-mail ideas. That is reality and Gordon does not have to apologies to Cameron. Why should he, he has made it clear that such e-mails are wrong and that's the end of it.
We will disagree politically with the SNP, but the last thing Britain needs is a return to Thatcher’s Britain led by Cameron. Behind his gloss he's even worse then her.
I have to say that from a party political perspective having a wounded and discredited Derek stay on is absolutely the first best scenario for the Tories now and I'm amazed that Labour can't seem to see that. (Or at least, I think the rank and file do see it, but those in charge apparently don't...)
And even were it effective - is this the way you think we should win, by cheap and irrelevant gutter gossip? What happened to the tolerant third way inclusiveness we used to hear so much about? Labour all too often loses elections because it tests and eventually sacrifices the loyalty and patience of its marginal supporters. This kind of stuff tests even the core suppporters, let alone the only semi committed ones.
Is there no "grown up" in no 10 (or Party HQ) whose office you pop into to float rubbish ideas, whose job i is to tell you that something's nuts? If not it's high time there was.
Having been a member for over 40 years I am relishing voting for someone else.
Back to the wilderness - and they cant say they dont deserve it!
Ex Labour voter
It's quite simple: there is no difference between New Labour and the Conservatives. They're just as bad as each other.
I'll be voting Green or Lib Dem next time. If we're extremely lucky we can get a hung parliament - with proportional representation we could have a mixture of parties in parliament - including a true Labour socialist party.
We need to change from our current system of power alternating between the 2 main parties - they are now indistinguishable from each other.
Your latest spin 'I didn't spend much time on unfounded smears' is extremely weak.
I often find that taking an argument to an extreme throws some relief on it's inherent logic. For example, should a murderer be let off scot free because he only spent 0.01% of his time actually killing people?
You found falsely spinning an accusation of mental illness on an MP's wife as 'totally brilliant'. Even with your qualifications - it's a measure of the kind of person you are.
Labour supporters I'm sure by and large are good people. If ever there was a case of 'lions led by donkeys' Labour is the living embodiment.
Your new found sense of 'mea cupla' is only because you got found out being very, very nasty and you crossed the line. You lied about the emails only a few weeks ago.
In terms of trustworthiness, you are very damaged goods.
As for 'Tory troll' well, I prefer effective opposition. I'm actually doing you a favour to sharpen your ability to debate because Labour is addicted to these ever more vicious ad-hominem attacks.
Labour main weakness is it has forgotten to debate.
It's just plain nasty.
And the bells in the steeple too
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird
Is popping out to say "cuckoo"
Cuckoo, cuckoo
Regretfully they tell us
But firmly they compel us
To say goodbye . . .
Cuckoo!
. . . to you
So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, good night
I hate to go and leave this pretty sight
So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, adieu
Adieu, adieu, to yieu and yieu and yieu
So long, farewell, au revoir, auf wiedersehen
I'd like to stay and taste my first champagne
So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, goodbye
I leave and heave a sigh and say goodbye -- Goodbye!
I'm glad to go, I cannot tell a lie
I flit, I float, I fleetly flee, I fly
The sun has gone to bed and so must I
So long, farewell, auf Wiedersehen, goodbye
Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye
Goodbye Derek!!
Does it matter whether anyone in the Tory party apologised for their 1997 election tactics? Not really. The were booted out of office, and have stayed on the opposition benches for over a decade. Labour doesn't need to apologise for their planned smear tactics either. But bear in mind that if that's the route they take leading up to the next election, they'll more than likely follow the same destructive pattern the Tories did. And don't say you weren't warned.
There may not be enough money in the world to convince you to vote Tory. But there are millions of voters out there who changed from Conservative to Labour in 1997, and are perfectly willing to change back to Conservative next year. No money necessary.
Oh, and I hope the Tories kept those posters that read... "Murderers, Rapists, Muggers" all free under Labour. They'll probably be able to use them this time around.
Perhaps you would tell us who. As the donations seem to be to a site controlled secretly by Labour have the donations been registered?
Have you read the emails? Not his fault? Gloating over that rubbish?
You can make LabourList accessible only to Labour party members, but what purpose would that serve? It doesn't take a genius to know that anyone who still holds Labour party membership is going to vote Labour at the next election. Essentially, LabourList will be preaching to the converted. How is that going to galvanise support?
LabourList needs to convince the floating voters to say with Labour. It's the only way Labour has even a shred of hope of retaining power. This means that when those floating voters bitch and complain, you have to actually listen. When they write about their disgust at sleaze, don't make excuses for those politicians, when they complain about loss of civil liberties, don't dismiss their concerns, and when they express their dissatisfaction with how Labour are running the country, don't try to paint a parallel universe where the Tories would have made it worse, acknowledge the mistakes that have been made, and suggest a way to remedy the situation.
Like I said, I am a floating voter. I came to LabourList to hear both sides of the argument before I placing my vote on that ballot paper. So far, I've been very disappointed.
Smear campaigns aren't going to work. They're distasteful. Are Labour really so lacking in policy, that all they have to throw at the Conservatives is fabricated smears? That's the impression this gives.
After 12 years in government, Labour needs to promote it's accomplishments. It also needs to admit where it went wrong, and propose how it's going to remedy those mistakes. And most importantly, it needs to stop treating the electorate as if they were idiots.
Now you can close access to this site if you like. You can also spend the next few months gathering ammunition to hurl at the Tories, but if you think those tactics are going to help Labour's chances at the next election, you going to be in for a big surprise. The electorate won't tolerate being ignored.
Unreality check please!!!!!! Believing your own propaganda is the road to defeat (already assured) and madness
Who funded RedRag and how much was spent on the site?
http://www.johannhari.com/archive/article.php?id=1481
K x x x
I will not leave my job because i posted this.
Do i win a tenner.
For those of you that seem lost on here try here www.dailymail.com or for the more liberal of you www.bnp.co.uk
Words and language are the mechanisms by which opinion is transferred from one person to another. Bourdieu (1991) talked about the 'symbolic environment' and how the 'manipulation' of it highlighted the power structures within society. This has been shown by the numerous 'right' leaning ideologists who have criticised the actions of two, and I repeat TWO men, in an attempt to project a version of reality which suits their ideological underpinnings.
The BBC website has it that what Damien Mc Bride said were "unfounded claims"...they were not, they were personal ramblings between two people (I don't say 'friends' because I do not know these two individuals personally or their relationship). If we are all to be held accountable for every utterance we make, God help us.
It reminds me of an episode of Star Trek (I don't rememeber the exact episode title) where one of the crew of the Enterprise was held prisoner, and sentenced to death, on an alien planet due to the mental thoughts that she held about an other person.
Are we living in a 'thought-police' society?
The answer is NO.
The Conservative Party, and David Cameron in particular, may try to attempt to gain the moral high ground on this matter. But the fact remains that the tories are a party of individuals, intent on the domination of the few over the many. By trying to manipulate the symbolic environment they will try to control the flow of information to the electorate, and disrupt the Labour campaign.
I believe that it is individualisation that has brought society to the situation that it finds itself in at present.
It is only through the collective action of all of us that we will produce a country that is capable of progressing in the coming century. Individualisation is dead.
We all have a say in the future of our society, therefore the objections to the ideas of another is valid, but in the case of Damien McBride that is all they were, ideas.
Real life is not a computer game, where the 'reset' button can be pressed if you find the going tough or difficult. Life is a gradual process of the accumulation and understanding of knowledge and experience.
Maybe what we can learn from this is that instead of focussing on people in an individual sense, we could focus on people in a collective sense. Cameron doesn't matter, Osborne doesn't matter, what matters are the British citizens facing the coming century.
So I'll ask too.
Which of the smears 'were also brilliant and rather funny'?
How many other members of the psychiatric profession would consider using mental illness, real or, as in this case, imaginary, as a basis for a party political campaign?
Team Cameron can't believe their luck.
These people are supposed to be running Labour policy and as far as I can see the only reason they didn't go through with it was because Guido found out and it was planned for the 2010 election.
ConHome bans puerile comments - but never bloggers that merely oppose Cons and wish to genuinely debate. You, on the other hand, merely seek to shut anything down that doesn't agree with you or Herr Gordon. How very on-message of you.
...looks like you are ****ed then Derek!
"I have been astonished this morning by a brazen attempt to smear me by Guido Fawkes and David Hencke of the Guardian. What makes this so reprehensible is that it is not about my work here at LabourList or as an ex-Labour spindoctor. I expect to be in the firing line for those activities. But this is different. This is about my work as a psychotherapist. Every week I see vulnerable people, some with life threatening mental illnesses and it is a disgrace to call into question my professional qualifications on the most concocted and inaccurate of grounds ....... This behaviour is unprofessional and, as I said earlier, reprehensible. That is why I have instructed my lawyers to consider what legal action I should take and to prepare a complaint to the Press Complaints Commission ...... But while they can attack my political activities as much as they like, they should leave my work as a therapist out of it.
In hindsight I'm willing to bet you wished you hadn't been so "astonished" at the "reprehensible" alleged smear attempts ...... all at a time when you and McPoison were off peddling your personal brand of evil. Shame you didn't take your own advice - but as you're a pathological liar there was never any chance you'd do the decent thing anyway.
Time for you to go.
PS: how do your Lawyers feel about your complaint now eh ;-)
The only reason they didn't do what they emailed about was because they were caught out. Using your line of thinking, we should let terrorists go because they haven't actually killed anyone.
The point is that they planned to use it and had everything in place.
Here's hoping nobody decides to make things up about you / your wife / your fav rent boy eh?
Yeah, I bet Guido is having a terrible time sleeping tonight.
It's one big game and we're longer very good at it. Time we got better.
Just go. Now.
Massive increase in CCTV, eh? You may need to explain that one to me.
Sadly for you, so are most of the constituencies, and they all cant wait for the next election which will make the 1997 swing look like a minor blip.
Indeed its hard to find anyone other than party hacks to stand up and defend Labour these days. And when you look at the leadership (or lack of it), the graft, corruption, lies, incompetence and sheer failure, are you surprised.
Gordon promised to eradicate poverty. Unfortunately not the poverty of ideas or morals in hos own Party. He also promised a new type of politics ......and by heavens hasn't he delivered on that this week.
So please close the door on your way out. We have work to do.
You make a bigger contribution to our movement than people give credit for, successes like Progress etc have enhanced Labour's credibility and defined our politics - even if I personally sometimes disagree.
All in all, I think what happened this weekend has been a shambles. It's Easter. The Tory blogger geeks are bored and so are the media. Everything has been made bigger than it should.
The important thing is that everyone learns from this. Despite blogging being an impressive new forum for ordinary individuals to express themselves, it has sadly - particularly amongst the political class - been used negatively for mindless personal attacks.
Ultimately, political blogging never really stretches away from a small crowd. If we are to ever make it relevant a wider public, we need to stop making it about smears and personal attacks. Many would argue that this is what politics is like and has ever changed and never will. So, yes it's important to learn from all this, but the question has to be - will we?
Howard, I understand your frustrations, but the unremittingly negative comments are a direct result of 12 years of Labour behaviour.
You can't seriously expect to get away with vast spending to not effect, unending aggression toward third world countries, 3,000 new criminal offences, wholesale undermining of civil liberties and a massive increase in CCTV without negative comment when the opportunity presents?
Get my drift?
This has been so bad and so inept I have to ask...are you a closet Tory Agent infiltrated into the Labour Party to destroy it?
It was neccessary for you to apologise Derek and I bet this cr*p is getting you down, but stay with it.
Best, Zack
I hope the press don't get hold of this...he's already had a rough week.
But the truth is socialism is and always has been bereft of any morality, you are all Stalinists/Leninists, just another bunch of megalomaniacs who know 'better' than anyone else, and now the people that you, 'new labour', hoodwinked have rumbled you.
The only person who had any decency was Trotsky, and you had him murdered because he saw the lie and told everyone about it.
Joe
But the media *should* be all over this. McBride, so close to Brown, was suggesting a smear campaign is something to make political capital out of! He didn't want politics but character assassination (again, something Labour are trying unsuccessfully in Scotland through the media). And Draper thought it was brilliant! And you don't care? But you talk about democracy!
I don't like Cameron either. Nor do I like Brown, and I didn't like Blair. Frankly I despise all three. You've no reason to believe me but I voted Labour (trusting the Scottish press) right up until '07, initially in a protest vote, but I would never vote Labour again. And I do mean never, and I felt so cheated with what Labour did with my vote and the destruction of Old Labour brought about by Blair and Brown. All these things you criticise the Tories for the Labour party are just as guilty, if not more so. In the nicest possible way -- take off your blinkers. Unfortunately in England you no longer seem to have any reasonable parties left and you're stuck with Westminster.
You are a 'professional psychotherapist' yet you entertain the idea of using the alleged mental vunerability of an opponents wife for political
gain? Shame on you.
You state that you are a member of the British Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy (BACP) and adhere to their ethical framework. Their ethical
framework is very clear on a number of issues, such as:
- Alleviating personal distress and suffering
- Respecting human rights and dignity
I think you miss the boat on both of those. In terms of personal moral qualities required by practicioners, you are wide of the mark on an number of these.
I will leave your readers to decide which:
Empathy: the ability to communicate understanding of another person’s
experience from that person’s perspective.
Sincerity: a personal commitment to consistency between what is professed
and what is done.
Integrity: commitment to being moral in dealings with others, personal straightforwardness, honesty and coherence.
Resilience: the capacity to work with the client’s concerns without being personally diminished.
Respect: showing appropriate esteem to others and their understanding of themselves.
Humility: the ability to assess accurately and acknowledge one’s own strengths and weaknesses.
Competence: the effective deployment of the skills and knowledge needed to do what is required.
Fairness: the consistent application of appropriate criteria to inform decisions and actions.
Wisdom: possession of sound judgement that informs practice.
Courage: the capacity to act in spite of known fears, risks and uncertainty.
I would guess that you will be invited to a BACP professional conduct / fitness to practice panel pretty soon....hope you enjoy being a house husband.
one might say the say about a labour 'government' .....how are you getting on with the words to the Eton Boat song, by the way?
HAAAHAHAHAHAHA
See?
I voted for Labour in 1997 and 2001. I abstained after that. I still vote for my superb Labour councillor (a true socialist).
But you? what a dispicable character. Blind and stupid. One of the sheeple that is too stupid to actually think about who he is voting for and is blinded by a label. Labour. You really are a traitor to socialist values. And to make matter worse you seek to restrict freedom of speech. You sir are a disgrace to the Labour movement.
I dont know who else has conributed to this farrago. Derek assures us that it is NOT financed by Labour. Perhaps he can tell more?
Derek has used his talents in starting this site and now it serves no purpose for anyone of a Labour persuasion. Opposition comments of merit are obviously good for discussion...trolling isn't and most of the opposition comments are meant to disrupt the site, not to aid the discussion.
And ultimately it doesn't help Labour and I'm Labour and this site is 'mainly' for Labour folk.
You get my drift?
Surely the point of public discussion is to float an idea and see how it stands up? If the likes of me can come in and destroy the argument, it does not matter how I vote. What matters is that the proposition does not hold water. Evolution of ideas is at the heart of human development. I commend it to you...
Frankly I do no care what is on the e-mails, I do however care about balance and there is nothing in today's press that provides that.
This story is not headline billing and nor should it be the main subject on the TV news. It’s a sideshow which is important to some but not to all.
The media continue to ignore issues in society that matter to real people. They continue to let of the Tory Party in their inability to offer any real solutions or policy.
Democracy is suffering in this country as a direct result of the media being obsessed with Cameron. The real issues over the economy, climate change and security from terrorist are all playing second fiddle due to our so called wonderful free press.
I can't stand David Cameron; he is a lightweight incompetent faux leader who would be better play acting then thinking he is the right man to run the country. Oops is that a smear...oh well...tough....
I do care however about the country and it being lead for the good of all and not the tiny minority David Cameron is obsessed by.
All Party's and people who support them can dream up some silly things but the difference is if they are used. E-mail ideas were just that...ideas.
Those posters I refer to were put into action. I can’t comment on SNP related posters as I have not seen them. Yet no party should prance around trying to make out that butter wouldn't melt, especially the Tory Party.
Labour desperately need a way to connect with the public. At the moment, this site is not it, though it could be. The solution is to make the site properly independent. This weekend's revelations have demonstrated that Derek is connected to McBride, who is(was) connected to Gordon Brown... The solution? Derek must go.
(Yup, I'm a Labour Party member, to whom it's more important that the party regains some direction, integrity and backbone than it is to get into power again when the leadership hasn't really known what to do with it for the past decade!)
the only time a nu labour pig opens its mouth is so it can stuff as much free taxpayers money down its throat before being sent to the slaughterhouse at the General Election
oh, and by the way....best you get used to the colour Blue Howard, it's going to be running the country long after the project 'nu labour' has been sent to the knackers yard
So, forget singing the Red Flag old son, those days are long gone.....time for you to learn the Eton Boat Song.....enjoy....
The Eton Boat Song (modified)
=============================
Jolly boating weather,
And a hay harvest breeze,
Blade on the feather,
Nu Labour on its knees
The point remains this is a Labour website and you are not a Labour person.
The filter needs to be started and Derek needs to get back to doing what he does best: TITTLE-TATTLE AND MUCK-RAKING.
And no more apologies.
I'm not defending any posters which have or have not have been used in the past(by any party), but attacking a political party is hardly the same as naming people about whom you have invented a story concerning illicit sexual encounters.
Derek - I sincerely hope you remain at the helm of LabourList. I pray that you continue to provide interviews with Talk Sport and anyone else that comes knocking. Everytime you open your mouth Labour lose another vote and by god we need this rancid government out of power.
As for the original intent of red rag - no one belives your story. You didnt publish because you were waiting for the election. 2010 will see an election that will be te dirtiest in living memory. Its the only thing this dreadful pious government has left. Please dont take us as mugs. Based on you pisspoor performance this weekend you really aren't in a position to judge anyone.
So continue with Labourlist and I hope that Two Jags continues with GoFourth. Both are dire and both think that spin and lies will fool people. They wont. They damage the party, a party I have voted for but have now abandoned.
You represent everything that is bad in todays Labour and I cant wait for 2010 to see the back of your kind.
PS - get a bloody haircut and clean up - you look like a tramp
Get these f*cking Tories off LabourList"...
There speaks a man who simple does not understand the internet. What next, a site that only allows comments that agree with the central proposition of a post?
Anyone remember Walter Wolfgang? Want to go down that road again?
I would not presume to speak for anyone else's political leanings, but I certainly am not a Tory. I am simply aghast at this weekend's disclosures. The comments are unremitting negative for a reason Howard. If you can't work out why, your are as lost as Derek and McBride...
Or maybe you're inviting me over to your place..?
Get a life Britain. When two blokes can not send stupid emails to each other then what has Britain come to. Cameron your welcome to them. Maybe Cameron is just what Britain deserves a vaccuous piece of nothingness. Maybe he can whine on about this is another case of BROKEN BRITAIN.
Derek i love you. keep up the good work.
Get these f*cking Tories off LabourList. The site is supposed to be 'Where Labour Minded People Come Together' and yet we are 99% inundated with Tory trolls.
Get off your arse, get the filter working and get Red Reg started. We've got a GE to contest in twelve months and we need all the ammunition we can gather - just make sure the weapons are pointed at the opposition and not towards our feet.
I'll be content when I don't don't have to suffer sneering Blue kack on a website supposed to be for Reds.
Ill throw this into the mix because it needs adding and it may just make some of you think who are opposed to Labour and posting on here.
In the run up to the 1997 election the Tories commissioned a series of attack posters.
One of them had the wording "Murderers, Rapists, Muggers" all free under Labour!
Now if that is not a dirty tricks smear then what is? I personally saw every poster produced for 18 months and long before Tory HQ.
That particular poster went unused, just like the one with a picture of a baby with demon eyes? Yet while they did not use them it dose not mean they did not consider doing so.
Many however depicting Tony Blair with Demon Eyes were used.
These attack posters were quite vile images, commissioned with full Knowledge of Tory HQ.
Unlike information from hacked and stolen e-mails these posters were commissioned with a professional graphics company outside of politics.
So where is the apologies for these little gems from the Tory Party?...
There is not enough money in the world that would ever make me consider voting Tory.
You never know when past friends can become new enemies
I survived the same sixth form college by leaving in the year Mr Draper arrived and god forbid how his life would have progressed (sic) had he committed his thoughts to email then.... HOWEVER his career to date has provided many pub conversations which include stuff he has threatened a mate with libel action over already ;)
I (we) will follow this latest gaff with great interest
nu labour is FINISHED, the WHOLE country now sees it and its supporters for the filth and scum that they are, and that includes dolly draper and that obese slug who was forced to fall on his sword yesterday following the DISGUSTING and OBSCENE filth that poured from the heart of the putrifying corpse that is nu labour
nu labour is finshed and so too is this puerile excuse of a 'blog'
You continue to mention 'gossip', but it seems these stories were entirely made up. You are a vindictive liar.
People like McBride, Whelan and you are simply the pits.
1. Which of the smears "were also brilliant and rather funny"?
2. How do you square being a professional psychotherapist and using mental health as a smear? I don't understand why you didn't write back to McBride that this line of attack was totally unacceptable.
3. Is your wife proud of you?
-----Original Message-----
From: Derek Draper [mailto:derekdraper@............]
Sent: 13 January 2009 18:56
To: Damian McBride
Cc: Dodgshon, Andrew; Whelan, Charlie
Subject: Re: Rag [UNCLASSIFIED] [Non-Record]
These are absolutely totally brilliant Damian.
I'll think about timing and sort out the technology with Andrew this week so we can go asap.
Do we want to tip off anyone about Red Rag having set up? Walters? I could do it and say LabouLlist had been sent the link anonymously.
PS Don't forget LabourList Damian!
The only reason you have typed this "apology" is because you know the writing is on the wall...even Labour's Tom Harris is saying so http://www.tomharris.org.uk/2009/04/12/so-what-did-i-miss/
There should be no position available for you within a democratic parliamentary system, and if you had a shred of integrity left you would know that it would better serve the greater good of the Labour Party if you disassociated yourself from the party forthwith because the bile and poison which has been discovered could besmirch the reputation of the party for more than a generation.
I believe that the correct words that you are looking for is "I need to spend more time with my family"
Please go before the embarrassment encompasses any attempt to get a message out.
What is rather interesting is that no one has discussed or really seems concerned about how these emails came to be in the public domain. Something has been hacked, and I'd wager the culprits knew whose email they were hacking; I wonder what colour they were, politically, too!
To my mind, most of the stuff on Paul's site among others is generally speaking based on reporting on real events, which has actually added to transparency and caused ministers to resign.
This was purely an attempt to smear, and was obviously the logical conclusion of your work.
As far as I can see this website is just a huge spin database.
Love the slogan
"where labour minded people come together"
Great! A website for labour minded people. I wonder how many labourers visit this site.
A Labour minded site run by a spin doctor married to a TV celebrity. The voice of the working man!
Champagne socialism at it's worst.
Funny that this lifelong old labour supporter will now vote conservative, isn't it? They really do now offer a much better deal for the working class, not the intellectual or political, or professional, or migrant, or "poor me" classes that your party represents.
Why are they still employing him
As Brown fiddles and blathers endlessly about how he's got nothing to do with the global meltdown (whilst he and the Blessed St Tone B (along with Bush et al) committed us to a forlorn massively costly and damaging war, which left us emotionally and financially scarred, with no reserves whatever) the country burns out of control.
The sheer scale of waste and incompetency of this present shower beggars belief. I was once proud to be a Labour supporter but junked my card a while back. Now all Labour has to offer, is a couple of ne'r-do-well 'desperately seeking celeb status' hacks thinking they're making a statement. Pathetic.
Not looked at this site since launch+1. Boy have you created a venue of loveliness towards The Labour Project.
Could you in your next apology, due in the next few hours one suspects.. please outline where New Labour's plans to store all email, text/mobile traffic online in a great big database that can be err hacked into by nasty evil Tory Bloggers (Allegedly)because no Goody Twoshoes Labour Blogger would dare do such a thing.. sugest mental instability, yes, lie through their teeth, yes, but NOT hack an email account.. differ from what the result of your alleged break-in by nasty evil heartless folks.
Perhaps in a trial of aforementioned Big Idea to log all emails etc etc they logged your emails and some nasty evil Tory Blogger that no doubt does Devil-worship on the side acquired the emails that way.
Those that live by Big Brother get caught bullshitting and lying by Big Brother.
Btw today's Sunday and your 'poll' is still closed despite protestations to the contrary.. I could suggest the splash page is lying by saying it's fixed.. but we know they don't lie on labourlist.org do they....
Much.
anyway, my main point is that once again Draper shows that calling Racism is the last resort of the bankrupt mind - except he does it in reverse "I did not call him a racist" Priceless. An, no - he didn't go to Berkeley - but it was in the same town!
Every time you open your gob on TV or Radio, you drag Labour down. Your boorish bullying attitude whenever you were interviewed and fronting Labour, your whinging apologies now you're trying to save your skin. They just put people off.
The best thing you can do for Labour is disappear.
I cannot for the life understand New labours idealism.
Your apology is another sign of your ability to lead Labour supporters away from the abyss of fear and self-loathing that has gripped the party.
If only you were closer to Gordon then I am certain that you would help to find a more immediate way forward that could energise the waverers in the fight against the Tories.
Do not let a minor setback deter you!
Every time your sleazy face (which by the way looks like the product of some weird miscegenated union between a bookie and a used car salesman)appears in the media we, the electorate, are immediately reminded of how imperative it is for the good of the country to flush the political toilet at the 2010 election. The era of champagne pseudo-socialism is fast coming to an end.
You have highlighted just how morally bankrupt and corrupt the Brown government is,they really will stop at nothing,especially since the return of Peter Mandleson,a friend of yours I believe?
It took men and women of integrity and principle,to create the labour party,my late father was one of them,but it's only taken just over a decade of a very different breed of men and women,in this labour government, for it to topple ,seeping with sleaze,lies ,and corruption,and you are of that ilk.
I now not only want David Cameron, and the tory party to win the next election,but to do so with a resounding victory.
How about expressing some apologies and regrets to all the people in the left hand column?
Do keep up Lester. McBride was Brooon's right hand man. He wrote the shite, and Derek told him how 'brilliant' it was. Labour from start to humiliating finish. They did it to themselves...
As we have seen, with the "expenses" and second homes stories, where politics today is concerned, it is not what is right and wrong, but what you can get away with.
I don't for a moment think the Conservatives are any better, and, given the chance or the circumstances, would try the same tactics themselves. Perhaps the two big parties have got just too big - and too similar?
The hope may lie in smaller parties, which is why I support the Green Party these days: smaller parties don't have the time, the money or the resources in staff to indulge in this sort of thing.
But to pretend that it is only Labour - even New Labour, who I deplore - that would indulge in dirty tricks is just plain silly.
Give the boy a raise, and a sweetie-bag of amphetamines to keep him going.
.
.
in terms of suggestions for LabourList, perhaps the editor can consider having guest editor/moderator. This is tried and tested "formula" and can be just the paradigm shift ....
I don't know you but I find the whole affair worryingly juvenile. I was at University in the late sixties and you seem to be in that time warp. Action and rush and an arrogant assumption that you are always right. I've never voted Conservative in my life and never will but if you represent modern Labour, I will vote for the Lib Dems or abstain. Well done, you're succeeded in losing a labour vote.
I want democracy, and I want a secure national identity card system, I want to be safe and secure, but I do not want a witch-hunt against Pakistani or Muslim people because of a very small minority of ill-guided (Criminal) people.
I want the best of the best to run this country, and I want them to have the best advisers. I want people that make a mistake, to be able to say sorry (and mean it) and to get on and do their job.
Damian McBride may have been foolish, but who am I to judge, I have been foolish, and I have made mistakes.
AC Bob Quick, made a mistake, and apologise, as an honourable man, he offered his resignation, but it should not have been accepted, he was a talented man.
It also has to be said, if these emails were obtained by hacking then 1) security needs to be enhanced, and 2) if they were not for public consumption then they should not have been published.
We live in a world were it is not longer acceptable to have an accident or make a mistake without it being made into a major issue.
I use my vote, it is important to me, and I believe in Britain, our success will come from working together, if you are going to do or say something, make it positive, lets find common ground, set a firm foundation on it, and build together..
As you pointed out yesterday, this was just a small incident of juvenile and inappropriate behaviour. Nothing at all for anyone in the blogosphere (or mainstream media) to get excited about.
It must be enfuriating to be the only voice of reason and common sense as the media go mad and get involved in a totally unfounded withchunt against you.
I'm glad that you only spent 0.1% of your time on Red Rag etc and have spent the other 99.9% on the unmitigated triumph that is Labourlist.
I would think there's a few things you could do in order to clear your good name:
1. Publish copies of the emails you must have written to McBride or Tom Watson or others. You see, there's a slight problem with the email that has made it into the public domain. When you reply to McBride that you think his email was "absolutely brilliant", it gives the unfortuante - and, I'm sure, wholly inacurrate - impression that you thought McBride's ideas were, well, "absolutely brilliant". Time to publish your more thoughtful reply to Damien - that you must have sent just an hour or two later - saying that "On reflection, this is juvenile and inappropriate. We should shove it all in the trash can. We need to focus on ideas, policies and campaigns instead of the gutter tittle-tattle of the right." I really hope you haven't deleted that email from your "sent items" box.
2. Explain why you're apologising to Samantha Cameron. I'm sure this is just because you are such a decent and well-rounded human being. You instinctively offer the hand of friendship even to your political opponents (and their spouses). My impression of you is that you always seem to leap - prematurely - towards unreserved aplogies at the merest sniff of you having made the slightest error of judgement. Please just spell this out though, otherwise people might draw the wrong conclusions.
3. Explain your "complete" denial on the Daily Politics about McBride's involvement in your web endevaours. I'm sure this is just another incident of you not lying deliberately, but your loyal supporters would be honoured if you'd just spell this out.
I think taking those three steps will get Labourlist back on track. Surely, no one can deny that since Labourlist was set up, Paul Staines, Iain Dale and Tim Montgomerie have been cowering in fear. Their credibility is in tatters in the face of the onslaught of superb new policies, ideas and campaigns that Labourlist has been promoting. I feel sure that final victory is within our grasp. Certainly, it's hard to see how Guido Fawkes can ever recover from this crushing blow to his credibility. What a totally terrible bank holiday weekend, he's had. I don't think anyone will ever take Guido seriously again.
This is - in no small part - down to your sterling efforts. Thank you from all of us.
Er...because we the public deserve better than this continual drip drip of crap designed to focus us away from what is really important....oh and because it's pathetic...
This 'we must rise above it' blither is a load of old nonsense, you're not the solution Delboy, you're the problem.
I am, however, glad you proud of LL and that you no longer censor the 99.9999999% of comments that are critical of Labour. Not quite the 'like minded people' you had in mind though.
Back in the real world - how embarrassed was Jacquie Smith to accept the Quicksters resignation? Did she get the irony?
I think you will have to accept that what actually happened is that one of your silly little cabal was not quite as loyal as you thought, and passed your messages over to Guido. Amusingly enough, Guido himself may not even know who did it! So, who do you think it was? Was the whole thing a conspiracy to set up McBride and yourself? Just to go off the wall, was it you yourself who leaked, acting out a variation on the them of suicide by proxy?
Seemingly the prospect of a leaker in the piece causes you some pain (since you can't bring yourself to mention it) so naturally, I felt obliged to bring the subject up.
By the way none of this should be taken as any suggestion that you should give up on politics. Indeed I wish you even greater prominence. Every word that you utter is a new nail in Brown's political coffin.
Your COMPLETE ARROGANCE in thinking you could simply "arrive" and dictate terms to the Blogosphere is simply stunning.
The blogosphere is an independent animal, a herd of cats that thinks as does as it sees fit. Your quivering greed to be part of this new "phenomena", to control it, to smear and to slur, to lie and to cheat, whatever it took is truly a textbook case of a demented ego.
You may never understand that there are 60,000,000 of us and we will use our voices how we damn well please. Your government licences the press, the media, tv. Anything to force us to tow the line or be shut up.
Not with blogging. Not anymore. We say and do as we see fit. I can hear the sound of a million new blogs being set up (without Union funds) by angry ordinary people. You're going to be hearing a lot more from them in the future. And you fell at the first hurdle. Time to put this lame horse to sleep. Go and sell time share Derek. If you can.
1. Why are you posting your apology here and not on your website? http://derekdrapersblog.blogspot.com/ You seem to have time to publicise your book over there, but not your apology.
2. What is a psychotherapist, and one who has suffered a breakdown, doing thinking it is a brilliant idea to publicise some assumed mental frailty of another human being?
3. How long before Unite pull their funding?
Ms Dorries claims she is going to sue - ifd she is genuine in that, then it seems to me she is just seeking publicity: at the moment very few people know what was said about her. This morning on LBC three times she said that these emails were designed to "ruin her career". Well, if she chose to seek her remedies in court many more people would know the contents of these emails than is presently the case and her "career" might still be ruined - because many people believe there is "no smoke without fire".
As I have said before no party is whiter than white and the moral outrage amongst the Conservatives and those journalists who support the Tories has seemed rather too fierce. "The lady doth protest too much" as Shakespeare had it.
I can't see that court cases or prolonging this matter any longer serves any useful purpose,Everyone has expressed their anger and outrage, but what is done is done - can't we talk about something else.
You website is a joke. People watch amazed at your crazy posts, and are even more entertained the more and more irate and crazy you get about things. And the few people who don't do not particularly like you, they just think it's cruel that people are getting off on your obvious distress. They are not your friends because of this, they are just decent human beings.
It sounds like Damian McBride was maybe your only actual friend from the apparent email conversations you've been having, but you took his emails with much more offence than you should have. He's been one of the good guys to you, so he had a wobbley moment on the emails, with a bit of banter between a few mates. It's nothing less than you deserve really, if you act crazy you can expect other people, even your friends, to note it and maybe even laugh at it. It's what you get. Whether you burn more bridges by overreacting, or take the time to mend the wounded relations, that's up to you. Seemingly, sweetheart, you're burning every bridge open to you.
You need to get a grip, curb your insane moments, maybe even see a psychiatrist. Stay on labourlist if you please, but find some perspective with it all. labourlist is not the world. Especially for you.
The fact that you are now showing your true colours is great. You always hide behind this affected persona of the slightly wacky but well-meaning fellow, when in fact you're a bloody nasty man who hangs around with some of the most digusting parasites in Westminster.
Grow up you idiot.
To "admire" the likes of Mr Staines is to sink to his level.
He is the unacceptable face of politics.
Furthermore, "Right" is a proper noun in that context. I can't tell whether you are talking about Right and Left or right and wrong (I went to school when they were good).
And why are you still here?
The best thing you could do, Derek, it to shut up and go away. Again.
Keep squirming
Since the beginning of the year there have been sixty seven working days, and you are only legally allowed to work, is it forty two hours a week, so that means you had a maximum of 2,820 working hours altogether this year, assuming you did nothing else. 0.1% of that time is 2 hours 48 minutes.
So that's all the time you've spent on Red Rag, is it? Two and threequarters of an hour.
Or is reality different from what you've just written?
BTW, I don't accept for a second that your email account has been hacked. You have no evidence to support the assertion. Much more likely that someone within Unite got site of your exchanges and was so sickened that they leaked them...
If not then we just have to take your word for it and the Tony Blair "im a pretty straight kinda guy " act wont work for you will it Mr Draper! No one in Britain would buy that, probably not even your own friends and family, given your very enthusiastic response to Mc Bride's initial emails. I just cant imagine what kind of man would think those ideas were great! You must be truly ashamed.
I'd also like to know why you are so sure your email account was hacked. Do you have anything to back these claims up with? I would have though that more than just this would have been leaked if someone had access to your emails! I'll hazard a guess there was lots of juicy stuff in there!
Smells like new labour bs to me! Spin and try to make you the victim! It just shows what levels you will stoop to and how desperate you are.
Whatever David Cameron brings after next years landslide, it cant be anything like as bad as this!
Show some dignity for a change and fall on your sword. One day you will be able to look your unborn child in the eye and say "I made a mess but I took my smacks like a man." If your kid looks back at how things stand now, they're going to feel nothing but shame at your cowardice and mendacity.
The Brown / Hitler video hilarious.
"Derek Draper - My Rise and Fall in the Blogosphere, a beginners guide."
I guess it's OK for me to make unshaven twat jokes now.
If LabourList is to have a future it should rely less on pusilanimous posturings from James Purnell, and the offspring of fading old NL stars. And people like Purnell and Mandelson, if they MUST be allowed to attitudenize in articles should have the decency, and respect for contributors, to come back and answer their critics.
When Mr Draper writes this stuff, do readers generally believe a single word?
In the end through this all wont wash. From the emails that we have seen so far, the discussion went far beyond just the exchange of the lies and stories. There was discussion of a plan- of how to maximise the impact, when to start, how to phase the stories to best destabilise the Conservative Top Team.
Then there is the issue that this was being done right in the centre of the PMs Office by a Civil Servant working directly to him, appointed by him. Paid by us as taxpayers but apparently working for the party in breach of civil service rules.
This goes to the heart of the Party and Government and taints everything. It damages the Party, the PM, The Government and hands votes to those you oppose. You have no credibility left Derek. Just go. Go now, for God's sake.
Agreed. So let us begin with you disappearing from the blogosphere, as you obviously cannot be trusted to keep the debate at the 'elevated' level you now claim to desire. As you point out, if the emails had not been published we would never have found out about your putrid plans to smear political opponents, and presumably we would not now be hearing about your keen desire to take the high ground. The trouble is, we already know you will give serious thought to dragging politics into the gutter - and who knows how many other email chains, telephone calls, personal conversations you have been involved in that might indicate your predilections to resort to personal attack as an alternative to real debate. So I agree we should have a new start, beginning with never hearing from you or your kind ever again.
I got that far and and decided you are deficient in the Maths department and read no further. Your life is devoted to spinning for a nasty party.
You'd better'd try a bit harder Del Boy - the country hates the Labour Party because its full of sleezebags. You are all going to be out of a job in 12 months from now. Goodbye and welcome to the wilderness years.
http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news/261804/Revealed-Shocking-emails-behind-the-secret-No10-smear-plot-by-spin-doctor-Damian-McBride-targeting-Tories.html
Keep squirming