In spite of the difficulties, here's why we're Labour

I would be very sad to see the demise of the Labour party. Although not a supporter I believe a left wing party is very valuable to our democracy as many people hold left wing views of one shade or another. Frankly the fact that such an awful government still holds 25% of the vote shows the solidarity of left wing ideals even if their traditional champions have left them behind.

Much needs to change from old Labour though. The ideas of hugely powerful trade unions and state control of the means of production have long been discredited. The reaction to the upcoming tube strikes show there is little support for such action amongst the public.

However, the working class in this country desperately needs a voice and one that accurately reflects their concerns, not repeat worn out dogma that has long become irrelevant. Ideas of fair working conditions for all, equality and a society working together to achieve common aims - like climate change - are valuable and should be retained.

Unfortunately, the Labour party has lost its way. It has completely avoided issues like immigration, a creeping surveillance society and over taxation and has fallen into the same traps previous Labour governments have fallen into. There needs to be an actual debate about these issues in the party - and I don't mean the "debates" often talked about by politicians as a way of kicking the issue into the long grass. Labour needs to have a policy on immigration that chimes with the concerns those who vote for them have. Without this it is inevitable that the BNP will have increased support. Cameron has touched on the issue but is instantly labeled as Xenophobic or even racist. Labour needs to realise that many people are very concerned about the levels of immigration and are unhappy with it not being addressed.

There are many good things to be rescued from the wreckage of this government. Peace in Northern Ireland, the independence of the bank of England, the minimum wage and legislation against prejudice of many types should be welcomed and celebrated. During their time in opposition which now looks inevitable Labour need to reconnect with the working class of 2009 and stop trying to "out-Tory" the Tories. Gordon Brown said it best "Labour is best when its boldest, its best when its Labour".

I am sitting tight and not voting. We lied to the people in our General Election manifesto over the referendum on the EU constitution and "New" Labour has failed in its management of the economy through its support for corporate capitalism.

When we get real Labour back I'll go out and vote and might even consider rejoining.

That’s bad news Tom. The vote is so important and the history of the struggle to get it was long and hard. I agree that the current Labour Party is not as good as it could be, and so I intend to become a member of it and start to try and move it in a direction that I think will be better. There is no point sitting on the sidelines, if you want to change things you need to get involved. The more like minded people get involved the better the chance to make the party better.

I do not agree with your choice of party, but your action is correct.

Hear hear!

What other party is there?

The conservative party.

I don't understand how anybody who lived through the last Tory government could ever vote for them.

The big question is how can we get more people interested and taking an active interested in making their communities better?

At least I have fund someone who feel the way I do, I I don't understand how anybody who lived through the last Tory government could ever vote for them. I have been living in the UK for twenty years this years and decided not to vote because I refused vote Tory and won't vote against Labour or Mr Brown. My son came to join me ten years ago said mommy how can you vote for Cameron party? don't do it. He said he see David Cameron as someone who loves to pick out bad points and never give credit. So I decided not to vote, I didn't feel the vibes to vote yesterday, but later on when it was too late I felt bad because my action wouldn't help Labour. Now I'm annoyed I didn't.

The *only* problem with maggie was her arrogance over the poll tax (too long in power, not enough people 'worthy' enough to challenge her).

Labour (under blair and brown) crossed that point long ago, but have been 'cleverer' in staying in power despite their arrogance.

Maggie cut out loads of dead wood at great public expense - brown squandered the savings and we know have to do it all over again!

When my kids complete their o leveles (gcses) they will find the UK just as I found it - a bloddy great labour mess, with years of debt to pay off to get things back in order. I seriously hope, once the repairs have been made, their cohort aren't stupid enough to trust a labour government to put my grand children though the same cycle yet again...

The only thing Maggie got wrong was the poll tax! What about how she destroyed whole communities when she turned the whole establishment against the miners, what she did should have been seen as treason, her whole cabinet show have faced criminal charges.

The reason Labour spent so much was because of the state of the schools, hospitals and welfare system because of Tory cuts and tax breaks for their pals!

With the recession, the Government through ‘light touch’ regulations of the financial system or partly to blame, but so to are the greedy bankers and of course the greedy share holders who would complain if profits dropped due to regulation and are now complaining that there was not enough regulation! It’s the market place, it’s a risk!

All I will say to any Tory is does lord ashcroft pay full UK tax, none of the tory party seem to be able o say YES! Same old Tories!

"I don't understand how anybody who lived through the last Tory government could ever vote for them"

In 10 years time, that's exactly what people will be saying about the Labour party.

I don't agree. I think that if there is another Tory Government the country will live to regret the day they came into office. The way that they will not say if Lord Ashcroft (their biggest funder) pays full UK tax just shows the type of people they are. They bent over backwards to get him into the Lords because he has money and they are power mad.

They've been driven (or more appropriately ridden). Lies, broken promises, deceits.

Perhaps by asking what people want instead of telling them, will invigorate an electorate.

To my mind, and at the root of many of the problems we face today, was the abject failure of a historical Labour government to embark upon the biggest social housing construction project the country has ever seen, instead of vanity projects, crusades and authoritarian diktat.

I believe that the LDs will become the party of opposition, with Labour consigned to a generation as the third party (not fourth, per the prescient Prescott).

I think the obsession with greed and self interest has greatly influenced the problems that the country currently faces. There is a rise in the number of gated communities and prison numbers, wealth is seen as the road to happiest. People need to start working together locally, not because they are going to make some money, but because it is the right thing to do. People need to stop talking and start doing. This is what I am going to start doing under the banner of the local Labour Party, and so should everybody else no matter what party they support.

I would be interested in any ideas people have in how to take politics back to the people.

No matter how bad our politicians, no matter how bad our parties, this right to vote is a valuable thing. It's why the entire political class is shivering in Westminster. It's the only ultimate power we have.

I had the honor of voting twice today (local and EP elections), for Labour and against the SAME woman (Jean Purdy) running as a BNP local councillor and MEP in the NW. Get out, and vote for ANY non-BNP Party.

I don't really care how people vote today as regards mainstream parties. I too want to see massive change in the Labour Party and the government in general. I too want open debate over Europe. I too think a General election in the next few months is needed.

But I also do not want to be shamed by my fellow Britons sending any fascists to the European Parliament.

"The Pound today hit a seven month high"

Do you think that's good or bad for a manufacturing led recovery. I suppose you think a house price led recovery is what we should have instead? Are you aware why the dollar became weaker or are you hoping that ignorance and/or patriotism will make people proud of a "stronger" pound. Do you recall that Stephen Timms commented on a weak pound a while ago and said that "the government doesn't have an exchange rate target". So why does it matter so much now?

"Defeating intolerance"

Your policies make the BNP stronger. By shouting down anyone who mentions the word immigration and calling them a racist, the average Labour minister/MP stops debate and makes people turn to the extreme.

Add to that the inability of Labour to plan for population growth and provide more services, more housing etc, it's no wonder the BNP is rising.

Labour has stoked the BNP fire by complacency with its policies and by its ministers and MPs riding the the expenses gravy train making them immune to the effects of their policies.

Chuka Umunna.
Who cares? Another smooth lawyer with little business experience and a desire to become a "career politician" That's just what we need.

You won't publish negative comments?
That demonstrates a real bunker mentality and inability to debate - just what can be expected from an arrogant government past its sell by date.

Great to see a concerted effort to make a positive case for supporting Labour.
We'll get nowhere if our message is 'the Tories are evil'

"In spite of everything they've done wrong, let's not forget we're party members"

Jeez, is this the UK or Stalinist Soviet Union?

If a party I support is completely inept, is milking the system, and has ruined our economy, I have enough free will to transfer my support to another party.

It is people like those who frequent this site that are the problem with our democracy.

Blind party apparatchiks who care more about their own organisation than the good of the country or morals.

Whilst the expenses of some MPs are deploreable, I am tired of listening to people who tarnish all Labour Party Members simply because a small number of Labour MPs have dodgy expense claims.

Labour is much more than its MPs and is much more than dodgy expense claims (which incidentally has affected ALL political parties). Labour is a set of values. I support Labour because I believe in the core values of Labour. I will not abandon my beleifs simply because an MP has behaved badly. Should we abandon politics because a small number of MPs have been caught out? No, we should stand firm and rebuild confidence in our democracy.

It is sites such as these where people voice their oppinions which makes our democracy stronger. The power of democracy is in the voice of the people.

"In spite of everything they've done wrong, let's not forget we're party members"

Where does anyone here say that, Mark?

Actually, someone can be aware of the wrongs done by people who lead an organisation, but still attached to the ideals of that organisation. It's like supporting a football club even when you know the manager and team are poor, although I suppose you just defect to the side that's winning.

And it's perfectly normal that when people believe in certain ideals, but have seen their leadership let them down, talk to each other to remind themselves of said ideals and to work out how they move on. That doesn't make them blind or lacking in free will at all.

I was paraphrasing the general tone I perceived in the article.

A football club is different - I support my team, because it is my local team and my family are all fans.

To equate the above with politics is idiotic. Politics is a serious business, and if my "team" continues to let me down, to lie, to send our soliders to their deaths on lies, to squander our tax revenue on quangos for their mates, or to bail out their banker friends, it is time for me to choose a new team, not just moan about the manager and hope things will improve next season.

To quote Nick Clegg: "Labour are finished".

Barring a miracle, I think their 100 year experimentation with politics is over. Good riddance too to the politics of class war and envy.

Well if I as an idiot might point it out, you put the paraphrase in quotation marks.

I didn't "equate" football and politics, I used football as a simile. Of course football and politics are different. I was trying to make the point that a club is a different entity to its team.

I'm defending or attacking the current Government here, although as it happens I agree with your points, particularly the one about the armed forces. But the mini article above did not mention current ministers and MPs, it mentioned the PARTY, which is a different thing. Team and club.

To claim that it did, and then shoot it down is just trolling. Any idiot can tell you that.

Here's one reason I still just about support Labour, or at least what Labour can be. I come from South Yorkshire, which was devastated in the 80s and early 90s, and ended up as one of the four poorest areas in the UK. The Conservatives chucked half hearted enterprise schemes in by way of "regeneration", but they didn't work. The young talent left, the area went into a downward spiral. It wasn't until the Labour Party won power in 97 and brought in good policies and funding that anything began to improve. Now the area is much, much better. It wouldn't have happened under a Conservative government.

Alas the party then lost all its support because of the immigration of the early-mid 2000s, which, whether you like it or not, drove down wages and weakened the work force ability to bargain. LP activists didn't have an answer for that, and tried to shut down the debate by calling anyone who mentioned it racist.

Oh dear - the "no negative comments" policy seems to have gone by the board, presumably because there weren't many others!

Anyway, hope everyone is voting today...

"Meanwhile, the Pound today hit a seven month high against the Dollar."

Yes, because the dollar plummeted. The pound is still low compared to everything else.

I despair at the Socialist grasp of economics.

Er, the last time I looked, against the Euro and the Yen the pound has risen to its strongest position for six months.

Indeed!

Plus China's insistence that the dollar no longer be the "de Facto" currency of last resort

Even Peston at al jebeeba has picked up on the Government activity in the bond market over B&B debt, although he toes the party line rather than the treasury report line

You also have to consider the repatriation of all the money just made by the arabs who bailed out of Barclays (50% profit thank you very much) which is a mighty fine transaction to occur all at once

Barclays is one of the banks this government doesn't own.

If I were Barclays - or any large private financial institution under this Labour Government - I'd re-incorporate in Switzerland.

Well done for the optimism (although I'm not sure that a record high for the pound against the dollar is unbridled good news for all). I'm voting Labour with a heavy heart for the first (and hopefully last) time.
http://blog.matthewcain.co.uk/voting-labour-a-heavy-heart/

Have you ever considered fighting for the electorate or the common good? If I had the same beliefs and views all my life I would be worried.

Exactly. Slavish devotion to the party is not what the electorate want. Party members need to think about what's good for the country, not themselves.

I don't see how any English person could be proud ot vote Labour, not when this Labour Government has discriminated against the young people of England, the sick people of England and the pensioners of England, and above all made English people constitutionally second class citizens. By any measure that makes Labour a racisat anti English party, and just as racist as the BNP, the only difference betweent he two is that they chose to attack diffrent groups.

Massive improvements in education for young people which I have driectly benefited from. Free bus travel for over 65s, free prescriptions for over 60s, Sure Start centres are all reasons why I support Labour. These are positive measure which help both groups you claim Labour "discriminates" against. Whilst I agree there are inequalities between England, Wales and Scotland, they are inequalities in very positive things: better education, better health care, better social conditions. And the quality of the service far outweighs the inequality.

Contrast that with a party which pledges to bring in "Voluntary repatriation" of ethnic minorities. It is complete madness to compare that sort of racist behaviour with the inequality of having free prescriptions in Wales and paid ones in England!

Are you a BNP troll Iain?

Why can we not have a decent debate without resorting to the devisive party politics that have grown since "new" labour came to POWER, as they like to remind us all, they are in power not in government and they have wielded that power with a veangeance to change the political landscape that I grew up in so that it is totally unrecognisable. I cannot believe that my only choice will be to vote lib-dem or conservative purely because of the complete hash they have made of certain areas. I had great hopes for Gordon, putting aside the fact that the midlothian question rears its head even more when we have a scottish PM, a scottish chancellor, a scottish chief whip, very recently a scottish speaker of the house and the rather funny situation that while we have these scottish men running our parliament thay have their own one in Edinburgh where they spend the vast majority of english taxes on making sure thay are ok jock...no hospital parking rip-offs,no having to sell the house if your old mum gets ill and no paying for prescriptions. I have allways been a labour leaning person but after twelve years of a political construct that turned old labour into new conservative/labour I cannot feel any connection to the people who run the country and who have been doing very nicely thankyou for doing so. I feel as if as a member of the electorate I am here for one reason and one only, that is to tow the line on the laws they have introduced (3000+ at the last count)to cough up as much tax as is possible without being left with literally nothing and basically to fit into the big brother society.It is as if they are against instead of for us, and when you have that feeling something aint right. Hopefully we can go back to proper cabinet government now and not the new labour dictatorship of the two...Blair and Brown.Though my anger is down to the fact that because of the downfall of this labour elite what are we left with, bugger all really,except a choice between Maggies lot, the BNP, the lib-dems and the greens etc.There is one other thing that rankles, and that is Peter Mandelson, he had a really big reward for being a successful spin doctor and party strategist, has he ever been in high offices of state...No, never mind as he is now Lord Mandelson, sen to the lords with the express intent of bypassing the political process that they so despise,the process that may just stop them from tainting the governmental process that took hundreds of years to evolve with personal hubris and gain. Then again thats me just being a little bit grumbly.

This comment is factually inaccurate and seems to edge towards a questioning style that is based upon a notion of geography and race that is unworthy of this blog.
None of these questions are credible.
Labour stands for values in direct contrast to this writer's unfortunate analysis. Gordon Brown and the Government deliver policy and practical expression of that policy mirroring the values that Labour supporters and many Britons cherish and written about elsewhere on the blog. If a little more focus was given by the media and some of the writers on the "list" to the improving economy : the move out of recession; comittment to supporting the unemployed; increased investment in education and most importantly those willing and able to do so recall the Britain of the 80's and 90's and remember when the Conservatives introduced policies into Scotland such as the poll tax without doing the same in England but we in the Labour party who are also domiciled in Scotland didn't blame the English/British but clearly saw it as the responsibility of Thatcher's Tory government.
Shame on you for your post; this cannot be a Labour supporter or if you are then you need to consider your postion.

Now why would I be that when I called the BNP racist? But perhaps you are suggesting that to deflect attention for this Labour Governments discriminatory policies its enacted against English people.

Care to justify Gordon Brown getting his mercenary Scottish Labour MP's to vote top up fees on English students?

Care to justify the LibLab coalition policy in Scotland to single out English students studying there for additional fees?

Care to justify the lower funding of the English NHS, which has let English people die for the want of drugs, drugs available elsewhere in the UK?

Care to justify the last act of Gordon Brown as Chancellor to slash the capital spending of the English NHS by 30%, when he didn't touch the budgets of Scotland of Wales NHS's?

Care to justify why English pensioners are denied home help, a service Gordon Brown said couldn't be afforded for English people, but could for his Scottish constituents?

Care to justify your leader, Gordon Brown, signing the Scottish claim of right to make Scottish interest paramount, when he's supposed to be the leader of the UK without fear or favour.

Care to justify the dogs breakfast of a mess your party has made of our constitution, that has made English people constitutionally second class citizens, essentially making the First Minister of England, Gordon Brown, someone no English person has voted for, and whose actions won't effect his own constituents?

Gordon Brown talks of Constitutional reform, and your hoped for savoir Alan Johnson talks of a fair voting system, yet the most unfair situation facing us is the West Lothian Question, a question you can't be bothered to find an answer to?

All this adds p to Labour being a racist anti English party, and any English person voting for Labour should be ashamed of themselves!

Iain

You've got a problem with the Scots eh!

Scotland is a country of less than £5m people
England & Wales approx.£55m

We need Scotland and it's resources---Oil, Gas, & Exports etc that we benefit from in England & Wales for revenue.

David Cameron(who I don't support)said to Scotland last week ---"I will not isolate you like Gordon Brown".
As soon as I'm elected I will come to Scotland and prove that the Conservatives are a better option than The SNP.
Even Cameron knows how much England needs Scotland.

Therefore Gordon Brown did not show favouritism to Scotland only respected Devolution that both Scotland & Wales received to allow them to be responsible for their own public services.

Grouse as you will, I'm abstaining tomorrow. Until we have constitutional reform, my vote in this area is utterly, utterly meaningless & a depressing & futile undertaking every damn time. It's blindingly obvious that a hell of a lot of people over the past three decades in particular have lost the will to vote for the same reason. We don't have a properly functioning democracy & there's llareggub we "little people" can do about it when nobody's been listening. Nor will they now.

I know you can't publish this because it will be seen as negative, but Alex, please. You have stated that Labour want to defeat intolerance. You do not do that by not being tolerant about negative comments!

How are we to learn from the next 24 hours without the naysayers? If the Labour Party don't listen to the voters, to the people who WILL NOT vote Labour, how can the Labour Party stand a chance in a General Election? Yes, local elections are important, but the General Election is the ultimate, and if you can not see why people won't vote Labour, there isn't a single chance of a 4th term.

Forget the Conservative voice, listen to the disenfranchised Labour supporters who are hidden on this site. They rarely raise their heads, they rarely say what they think until an article spurs them into action to voice an opinion.

Let the LabourList be what it was always meant to be, a voice for Labour minded people, not a voice for who happens to be in office. Let the REAL Labour supporters speak, let them tell you what they want and let democracy rule properly. Let the LabourList prove that Labour are here for the Labour supporters and give them hope that they can vote with confidence for Labour in the next General Election.

Bill - All the above would be a lot easier if it wasn't for the fact that day after day, night after night the same Tory trolls come on here and spout the same crap.

How are you supposed to debate with other Labour supporters when these barnpots seem to live their life on here?

Because your boys don't turn up in any numbers, Bullingtons old chap. And its not just here, its the same on the big right wing blogs like Iain Dale or ConservativeHome. The odd token Liberal or socialist here and there, but most blog posts generate far more posts than LabourList does, mostly from right wingers of various shades.

As I have remarked before, the near total silence of Labour activists on the blogosphere is, as Sherlock Holmes would put it, the mystery of the 'dog in the night-time.' Where are you all?

OK, to some extent as Labour are supposed to represent the vunerable and under-privileged in society some of the discrepancy may be due to the fact that some Labour-leaning people may lack the self-confidence to contribute as much as Tory - leaning types. Thats not in any way meant to be patronising, but it could explain some of it.

However I don't believe that's the major reason. The major reasons are that New Labour's control-freakery, obsession with being on-message and top-down bullying has cowed and demoralised the grassroots over the years.

Whatever its faults, Labour always used to have rumbustuous and passionate internal democratic debate, as its annual conferences showed before they became grotesque cheer-fests for 'The Supreme Bearer of the Light' aka Tony Blair.

You are now reaping the whirlwind for your leaderships arrogance and cynicism.

I think we've got BNP trolls on here today, never mind the Tory ones ... unless the Tories have started egging on apathy to deliver seats for the BNP ...

Ridiculous. The BNP have grown stronger during the Labour watch. Why? Because Labour didn't address the issues that the BNP claim to address. You have failed to make an argument about their policies and instead call them racists etc.

Now we all know that the BNP is racist but it's no good just calling them names.

When did you last see a decent policy suggestion being discussed>

Sad to read foul-mouthed rants like this - I thought that the editors were trying to run a serious political blog here.

I will be voting Labour tomorrow to show how we still believe in a united and strong Europe powered by progressive policies which will bring benefits to all in Europe, not just those in Britain.

But what do you mean by "progressive policies"? Spin your way to power, keep spinning when you're in power, invade Iraq, tax and squander then borrow and squander some more all the while telling everyone you've abolished boom and bust?

What can I say, New labours welfare reforms.